The Rich Are Taxed Enough (Debate) - Intelligence Squared U.S.

[Flaming Pie]

You have me mistaken for somebody else....are you sure you went to college?

I'm on a phone and chasing a toddler around. Lol it happens.

I scroll down enough and I don't see the name of the person.

I do apologize for saying you said something that you didnt.

 

[Rob Roy]

It wasn't involuntary. We elected representatives and they represented what their voter base wanted.

If you didn't vote for somebody or something, do you have the option of being left alone by that person etc. or do they go ahead and encompass you in their plan without your voluntary consent anyway?

Can I give your consent for you or can only you give your own consent....how does that work?

 

[Rob Roy]

You have me mistaken for somebody else....are you sure you went to college?

I thought I saw your picture on a wanted poster tacked to a fence post at a sheep farm....something about underage lambs ....were you trying to pull the wool over their eyes again? What exactly were ewe you up?

 

[Flaming Pie]

If you didn't vote for somebody or something, do you have the option of being left alone by that person etc. or do they go ahead and encompass you in their plan without your voluntary consent anyway?

Can I give your consent for you or can only you give your own consent....how does that work?

Try living in the real world. For one day please.

The reason why voting is so important is because it can affect so many lives.

It's serious business and should be treated as such.

 

[Darth Vapour]

That's why this is known as a 'regressive' tax, meaning that poor people pay a larger percentage of their income on this tax than wealthy people do.

Hence why there are bans on food taxes in many places.

Yup everyone should listen to this guy he is one of them poor peoples and knows allot about it and specially food stamps

 

[Padawanbater2]

If you didn't vote for somebody or something, do you have the option of being left alone by that person etc. or do they go ahead and encompass you in their plan without your voluntary consent anyway?

Can I give your consent for you or can only you give your own consent....how does that work?

Not voting is giving your consent to be governed to whoever wins the election

 

[Rob Roy]

Try living in the real world. For one day please.

The reason why voting is so important is because it can affect so many lives.

It's serious business and should be treated as such.

Your response failed to address or refute my correct assertion.

 

[Rob Roy]

Not voting is giving your consent to be governed to whoever wins the election

False dichotomy meatloaf for lunch again today sir?

 

[Padawanbater2]

False dichotomy meatloaf for lunch again today sir?

We've been over this a dozen times

You live in society

By living in society, you automatically give up certain "rights" that infringe upon others rights

You choose to do this 100% freely absent of coercion. You have the option to live outside society, but you freely choose not to in order to receive the benefits of society without having to pay for them

I feel like this is all pretty simple, basic stuff.. If you want to live in your libertarian utopia, you will have to live outside of society, if you choose to live inside of society, you can't whine about how you're not allowed to trample on everyone else's rights when your beliefs conflict with theirs.

It's just like Muslims leaving the middle east and moving to western society, but then still wanting to practice Sharia Law - you would 100% agree with that, I am certain of it, yet here you are arguing the exact same bullshit for your libertarian sharia law

Don't work that way, buddy

 

[Rob Roy]

We've been over this a dozen times

You live in society

By living in society, you automatically give up certain "rights" that infringe upon others rights

You choose to do this 100% freely absent of coercion. You have the option to live outside society, but you freely choose not to in order to receive the benefits of society without having to pay for them

I feel like this is all pretty simple, basic stuff.. If you want to live in your libertarian utopia, you will have to live outside of society, if you choose to live inside of society, you can't whine about how you're not allowed to trample on everyone else's rights when your beliefs conflict with theirs.

It's just like Muslims leaving the middle east and moving to western society, but then still wanting to practice Sharia Law - you would 100% agree with that, I am certain of it, yet here you are arguing the exact same bullshit for your libertarian sharia law

Don't work that way, buddy

I see you ate two portions...was it good?

I'm not familiar with libertarian sharia law does that come with cole slaw and a roll?

 

[ttystikk]

Yup everyone should listen to this guy he is one of them poor peoples and knows allot about it and specially food stamps

Lol @ Barf Vapid, at it again, are you? None of this is making ME look bad, you know.

 

[MistrBurrberry]

I'm not familiar with libertarian sharia law does that come with cole slaw and a roll?

I lol'ed

 

[woody333333]

I thought I saw your picture on a wanted poster tacked to a fence post at a sheep farm....something about underage lambs ....were you trying to pull the wool over their eyes again? What exactly were ewe you up?

Child molester

 

[Padawanbater2]

I see you ate two portions...was it good?

I'm not familiar with libertarian sharia law does that come with cole slaw and a roll?

You can't be "left alone" in a society that provides basic needs for the most unfortunate - disabled, sick, old, homeless, etc. because it takes money to pay for those things. If those needs are left up to charitable donations, like you would like, it ensures at least some of those needs go unmet. I'm unwilling to accept, as an individual in the wealthiest society the Earth has ever produced, that any of those needs go unmet. This is why libertarianism will never work in a society where individuals do not feel direct kinship to fellow citizens. Some people do, but most people don't, and there are even those among us who actively despise anyone different.

If taxes are "theft", then failing to provide those needs when you have the ability to, but choose not to is "murder"

 

[MistrBurrberry]

You can't be "left alone" in a society that provides basic needs for the most unfortunate - disabled, sick, old, homeless, etc. because it takes money to pay for those things. If those needs are left up to charitable donations, like you would like, it ensures at least some of those needs go unmet. I'm unwilling to accept, as an individual in the wealthiest society the Earth has ever produced, that any of those needs go unmet. This is why libertarianism will never work in a society where individuals do not feel direct kinship to fellow citizens. Some people do, but most people don't, and there are even those among us who actively despise anyone different.

If taxes are "theft", then failing to provide those needs when you have the ability to, but choose not to is "murder"

Also the idea that anyone is an adult in today's world without some kind of help from society is absurd, just ludicrous. They were educated in public schools (or publicly accredited private ones) ate food made safe by public regulators, drove on public roads their entire lives, use publicly stabilized currency, have courts to address concerns, etc etc etc.

Unless you literally were born in the undiscovered amazon and ate dirt and worms your entire life (in which case you aren't discussing politics on an internet invented and maintained with public funds, especially not in a shared societal language like English which they didn't invent) you absolutely survived to adult hood based on that society. Only privileged and ignorant man-children can believe that now that they are educated, grown, and have some kind of survival mechanism in place, that they can duck out of contributing to that same society for future individuals. And that ignores the fact that those same people will eventually need healthcare, or help with their families, or some other need that requires a functioning society.

But I learned long ago that trying to argue with a libertarian, especially on the internet, is like trying to argue with a religious fundamentalist based on logic. (but I repeat myself). It's a belief system requiring as much faith as Scientology, and just as ridiculous.

They also never have an answer for how redress for wrongs would work in imaginary libertopia. Today's courts are corrupted by those with money, imagine this minimal system only designed to address physical harm or property theft (that is funded by what? charity donations? lol). And of course everyone would agree to obey it's rulings too. Man, I honestly don't know how anyone can buy into such a ridiculous and flawed fantasy.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Also the idea that anyone is an adult in today's world without some kind of help from society is absurd, just ludicrous. They were educated in public schools (or publicly accredited private ones) ate food made safe by public regulators, drove on public roads their entire lives, use publicly stabilized currency, have courts to address concerns, etc etc etc.

Unless you literally were born in the undiscovered amazon and ate dirt and worms your entire life (in which case you aren't discussing politics on an internet invented and maintained with public funds) you absolutely survived to adult hood based on that society. Only privileged and ignorant man-children can believe that now that they are educated, grown, and have some kind of survival mechanism in place, that they can duck out of contributing to that same society for future individuals. And that ignores the fact that eventually those same people will eventually need healthcare, or help with their families, or some other need that requires a functioning society.

But I learned long ago that trying to argue with a libertarian, especially on the internet, is like trying to argue with a religious fundamentalist based on logic. (but I repeat myself). It's a belief system requiring as much faith as Scientology, and just as ridiculous.

They also never have an answer for how redress for wrongs would work in imaginary libertopia. Today's courts are corrupted by those with money, imagine this minimal system only designed to address physical harm or property theft (that is funded by what? charity donations? lol). And of course everyone would agree to obey it's rulings too. Man, I honestly don't know how anyone can buy into such a ridiculous and flawed fantasy.

Wait til Rob wakes up to tell you you've bought into some dichotic perspective of reality, and that, in real reality, nobody is hungry or poor, everybody chooses their own life, like the Matrix, and people give freely, without coercion, to each other and everyone lives in harmony.. You just have to let everyone decide for themselves, maaaan.. You can't be living on a ruled plane by government officials, you have to be your own person, duuuude, apart from government control..

 

[MistrBurrberry]

Wait til Rob wakes up to tell you you've bought into some dichotic perspective of reality, and that, in real reality, nobody is hungry or poor, everybody chooses their own life, like the Matrix, and people give freely, without coercion, to each other and everyone lives in harmony.. You just have to let everyone decide for themselves, maaaan.. You can't be living on a ruled plane by government officials, you have to be your own person, duuuude, apart from government control..

Like I said, I'm not really addressing anyone in specific, because I've never seen a hardcore libertarian convinced to give up their faith-based belief system. I was more pontificating on how absolutely ridiculous the idea even is.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Like I said, I'm not really addressing anyone in specific, because I've never seen a hardcore libertarian convinced to give up their faith-based belief system. I was more pontificating on how absolutely ridiculous the idea even is.

I've never seen a hardcore (anything) convinced to give up their faith-based belief system.

I don't do this for them, I do it for me, and you

People live in such a fucked up world these days they only come together under an umbrella that harbors pain

Fucked up today is just as fucked up as tomorrow..

 

[MistrBurrberry]

As far as I understand it, in libertipia there are no taxes, no regulations, and no government. What happens if I steal my neighbors stuff? Or kill him? Then supposedly there exists some tiny court system (in the minds of most, anyway) one can seek redress for physical harm or property theft. But how are these courts funded if there is no taxes? From where do they derive their authority? What keeps these mini-courts corruption free? Who appoints the judges?

Libertarians never seem to have answers for this question.

 

[Padawanbater2]

As far as I understand it, in libertipia there are no taxes, no regulations, and no government. What happens if I steal my neighbors stuff? Or kill him? Then supposedly there exists some tiny court system (in the minds of most, anyway) one can seek redress for physical harm or property theft. But how are these courts funded if there is no taxes? From where do they derive their authority? What keeps these mini-courts corruption free? Who appoints the judges?

Libertarians never seem to have answers for this question.

I'd love to hear Rob's answers for any of this

I doubt you'll receive it though, his answers always seem to stem from "LEAVE ME ALONE!", without ever answering any of the questions that essentially require participation to work..