In House Genetics Thread

[dirtyshawa]

the red flag for me is sooooooo many crosses in little time. lets face it pretty much everybody besides breeders like simon at serious and a few others are chuckers. Hmmmm lets throw this crap at the wall and see what sticks....

nobody is truly refining strains to the point of stability anymore it seems. The average pothead's attention span is too short and they want the next best thing. not something thats been worked on for years.

all the gorilla glue crosses, cookie crosses etc. Josey whales could have made a fortune just selling GG4 beans or same with Darkhorse selling just Bruce Banner 3 beans.

everybody wants the new thing crossed with the next new thing.

You make a good point about "breeding," but I think sometimes that point over looks the most important part of growing...is the end product dank. I think many breeders have foregone the notion of refining strains for decades before releasing, because more often than not those strains are no more dank than the poly hybrids on the market today. I remember when fem seeds were believed to be so unstable that it was a pure waste of time and a huge risk in most any capacity to a commercial grower. Ime, that was never the case. I just keep the stress low and remove suspect plants from early flower. That goes for my experience with poly hybrids as well. I've found far more top tier polys than strains from breeders that worked the shit out of a particular line. I've only been growing for just shy of a decade, but science is really working in today's seed biz. Fwiw

 

[MonsterDrank]

... Established companies generally offer fem beans anywhere from $16 - $20 a bean on average. A $75 10 pack, is an easy gamble, imo. We'll see, I have 3 a week away from flip.

Please keep us updated. I would love to see the results.

Personally I never run fem seeds anyway.

Not objectively opposed to it, but the idea usually doesn't appeal to me as the breeders I usually support don't make FEM seeds anyway.

About 10 years ago I ran some FEMs but the results were lackluster compared to my REG plants.. also they were from shit companies like World of Seeds and Green House. But I was a complete novice back then and didn't have nearly the amount of experience that I have acquired.. which makes all the difference when choosing what to run and which seed choices are better suited to fit my needs, etc.

These days I don't have much apprehension when running something that might come with a little risk.. like untested pollen chuck beans.. but fuck I'm not gonna pay full retail for that kinda seed. Seems like these guys are just trying to make a quick buck and not trying too hard to show any of their work.

 

[Thefarmer12]

Fem/reg/chuck/worked....makes no different in quality. Pheno hunt and find a keeper, no matter how the beans were produced.

I'm willing to gamble and will be dropping some velvet cookies down soon. Everything I have seen from these guys has looked like some supreme smoke.

 

[MonsterDrank]

Fem/reg/chuck/worked....makes no different in quality. Pheno hunt and find a keeper, no matter how the beans were produced....

Disagree with u there bud.

More breeders would be in the FEM seed business if they didn't feel as tho the quality of the plant was diminished when altering the sex of the the prodigy when making seed. It's pretty easy to self a plant or spray a mom with Colloidal silver , collect a jar of pollen and whore out a room of clones to make a quick buck.. you don't see more respected breeders doing things like this for very good reason. I can't believe for a second that the way the beans were produced makes "No difference in quality." In fact I believe it's the exact opposite and the very contrary.. I believe it makes all the difference.

Last night I actually was going through the 10 Cheshire Kush plants I had planted from seed and pulling the males. I had 8 females outta 10 seed plants. These were from REG seeds. I'm a firm believer that environment makes all the difference and a grower will increase his Female to Male ratio by keeping the environment ideal to the needs of the plant and by choosing good genetics to begin with.

I've been told by breeders that they think that FEM seed plants take away from the true potential of the plant.. the plants don't usually grow with the same Vigor..the yields aren't always quite the same.. the plants themselves are more prone to herm.. altering the sex and growing out a bunch of FEM seed plants supposedly compared to regs you just don't get the same level of performance as you do when you grow out REG seed plants.. the cannabinoid profiles aren't the same... the plants are diminished in quality.. this is not my opinion.. this is what I have been told by respected industry leaders..seed makers.. as I am friends with several breeders.

So I've stayed away from FEM seeds for the past decade.

But with rations like 8/10 female to males.. who needs FEM seeds anyway?

 

[dirtyshawa]

Disagree with u there bud.

More breeders would be in the FEM seed business if they didn't feel as tho the quality of the plant was diminished when altering the sex of the the prodigy when making seed. It's pretty easy to self a plant or spray a mom with Colloidal silver , collect a jar of pollen and whore out a room of clones to make a quick buck.. you don't see more respected breeders doing things like this for very good reason. I can't believe for a second that the way the beans were produced makes "No difference in quality." In fact I believe it's the exact opposite and the very contrary.. I believe it makes all the difference.

Last night I actually was going through the 10 Cheshire Kush plants I had planted from seed and pulling the males. I had 8 females outta 10 seed plants. These were from REG seeds. I'm a firm believer that environment makes all the difference and a grower will increase his Female to Male ratio by keeping the environment ideal to the needs of the plant and by choosing good genetics to begin with.

I've been told by breeders that they think that FEM seed plants take away from the true potential of the plant.. the plants don't usually grow with the same Vigor..the yields aren't always quite the same.. the plants themselves are more prone to herm.. altering the sex and growing out a bunch of FEM seed plants supposedly compared to regs you just don't get the same level of performance as you do when you grow out REG seed plants.. the cannabinoid profiles aren't the same... the plants are diminished in quality.. this is not my opinion.. this is what I have been told by respected industry leaders..seed makers.. as I am friends with several breeders.

So I've stayed away from FEM seeds for the past decade.

But with rations like 8/10 female to males.. who needs FEM seeds anyway?

Yeah, things have definitely changed. You're missing out on a lot of dank...alot! OG Raskal has been killing the fem game along with a ton of others. I totally disagree with what those breeders told you about fems taking away from true breeding potential. That's silly imo and a total opinion when I think of female strains I've ran over the years. The last female seeds I ran were Sincity's Tangerine Power and I don't see how a strain can surpass the qualities of that strain. That's just one example I've had being stellar. I think it just comes down to the breeder you purchase from. Some have perfected the science of making fem seeds, but I think what's most important whether it's a fem or reg variety is based upon the lineage. Breeders reverse cuts all the time and breed them. It's probably a common practice that breeders rarely speak about.

 

[MonsterDrank]

My last experience with Sin City Seed stock was less than stellar. As was my experience with Raskals Fire Og Kush.. the Fire Alien Strawberry was Okay but nothing to write home about.. so Idk man.. I've run Idk how many beans.. hundreds.. maybe over a 1000 so I doubt I've missed much... I have so many cuts now that are sure fire winners I have collected over the years.. but still love the pheno hunt. My seed collection is pretty massive. We're obviously not going to agree on the FEM seed thing.. I just don't have interest in them. If FEM seeds had all of the same potential as REGs you'd think that every breeder would concentrate on only making FEM lines.. wouldn't you? Obviously this is not the case. The truth is.. most respected breeders publicly speak out against them and do not offer FEM seeds. The ones in it to make a quick buck and could care less about genetic preservation do not.

 

[Amos Otis]

[QUOTE="MonsterDrank, post: 12002032, member: 457596"We're obviously not going to agree on the FEM seed thing.. I just don't have interest in them.[/QUOTE]

Then why keep repeating yourself?

No minds are being changed here.

 

[dirtyshawa]

I feel you 100%! I'm definitely not gonna jump at fems cuz I love the hunt as well and I had your sentiment for awhile too. I just think it's always a crap shoot, whether fem or reg. I don't get upset if I don't find a keeper cuz I keep cuts and never put all my eggs in one basket either. Putting it all into relative terms, I thought of buying some in house gear and was like fuck it why not the price is so cheap for fems the very very minor risk should be very profitable even with a single run. So from that perspective it's a win regardless.

 

[MonsterDrank]

yea we kinda got off topic..

my whole point to the conversation was the In-House Genetics team kinda seemed like a bunch of clowns. that was pretty much it.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

blah blah blah.

I am a breeder. Just not for financial reasons. Ive been growing for 21 years, raised a family on my hobby!

I subscribe to the Chimera, Dj Short, Professor P train of thought. Alot of breeders today are nothing more than chuckers. Its not like they have the capability to do huge seed runs to find studs.

FEMS are disregarded by many breeders because it could take down their empire!!! On all these forums, what degrades the reputation of a company or breeder more than a HERMIE wiping out a crop!!!??? Why introduce a hermie trait into your Gene pool? 2nd place for ruining a company is being a douchebag example Cali connect etc

Old school thinking for choosing a male, is to look for trichomes, lateral branching and onset of male sex organs. Later into flower, the better the male. If they sex early, closer to hemp or ditchweed they seem to be.

With ultra careful selection, and understanding your gene pool that developed the female studette. reversing a female can produce semi stable stock.


I particularly enjoy pheno hunting and I wish for more variety to chose from so I usually stay away from fem. And as a hobby breeder I do not wish to introduce anything with intersex abilities into my gene pool either.

Even Bodhi and SOma seem to have way too much going on!!!! I wish breeders would go towards a masterpice, versus shotgun approach

 

[MonsterDrank]

Even Bodhi and SOma seem to have way too much going on!!!! I wish breeders would go towards a masterpice, versus shotgun approach

This was the most sensible comment or opinion I've read on RIU all day.

But we all know why. It's the money.. can't blame them. Everyone's gotta eat and this world we live in is getting harder and harder to survive in.. especially in that industry I suppose with the oversaturation of bunk seeds like "Platinum Secret x Secret OG Animal Alien Fem Cookie Fire Nookie" and the people that will pay $100 a pack for the hype beans. I mean it's a free market so whatever.. people knock me all the time for buying TGA beans so I get it.. but I buy what works for me.. and consistantly for close to 10 years those beans haven't let me down.. well except for Jillybean and Vortex, those 2 strains kinda sucked IMO.. lol....

But yea.. Bodhi is kinda cutting loose and doing what Elite Genetics did back in the day.. taking a ton of clone onlys and rare cuts.. and hitting them with his proven studs.. sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.. but he's at least giving out testers and u can see on Breedbay there's people running the lines before they go to sale.. so I will give him credit for that. I wish they all did that.. it should be a rule of thumb. I won't buy seeds usually if the breeder doesn't show or put forth any effort or work at all into his creation besides simply making the seed.. this especially includes at least listing the damn parental information and lineage on a friggin website.. I mean seriously.. how lazy are some of these guys. I saw several instances in recent months where beans were being sold by these "up and comings" where the breeder/chuckers were so friggin lazy that you could not find any info at all on a single one of their crosses anywhere... and I looked hard. One listing listed the GG#4 mom as a parent and then it said.. crossed to.. and it was blank.. so I emailed the seller.. he didn't know.. blamed the breeder for not supplying the info. Said it was actually very common that these seed makers, mostly from the USA are all about getting paid but not so interested in working on their own listings or providing content.. which makes zero sense to me.. because if I created a product.. I would want to not only stand behind it and be proud to represent it.. but also I would want my growers/customers to have that info.

But there's all kindsa people out there.. everyone's motives are different I suppose. Everyone needs to make money and I get that.

I've actually had a seed making project in the work for years now. When I release it, whether I sell it or give it away, I will be more than proud and happy to provide full documentation on my work. I just wish it were more common place.

Love Bodhi tho... mad respect for his work. Have been following him since he joined Breedbay in 2007. Grew his Purple Moonshine back then. Was a great strain. His Apollo11g, absolutely phenomenal smoke.. a staple in my grow room.

bodhi recently lost his a11g dad.. which sucked.. but I was lucky enough to get these from him as I've known him so long he takes good care of me and knows of my love for the apollo11..

Between these A11g F3s.. my F1s, and F2s I acquired elsewhere.. and various collecting, I think I have about 60 A11g seeds in my collection and a killer cut.. as well as some Joeyweed A11 beans.. so my Apollo project is gonna be awesome.

Professor P and Subcool,who I know quite well and for a long time.. 2 other guys who vigorously test before release. Mad respect for those two.

 

[Thefarmer12]

Disagree with u there bud.

More breeders would be in the FEM seed business if they didn't feel as tho the quality of the plant was diminished when altering the sex of the the prodigy when making seed. It's pretty easy to self a plant or spray a mom with Colloidal silver , collect a jar of pollen and whore out a room of clones to make a quick buck.. you don't see more respected breeders doing things like this for very good reason. I can't believe for a second that the way the beans were produced makes "No difference in quality." In fact I believe it's the exact opposite and the very contrary.. I believe it makes all the difference.

Last night I actually was going through the 10 Cheshire Kush plants I had planted from seed and pulling the males. I had 8 females outta 10 seed plants. These were from REG seeds. I'm a firm believer that environment makes all the difference and a grower will increase his Female to Male ratio by keeping the environment ideal to the needs of the plant and by choosing good genetics to begin with.

I've been told by breeders that they think that FEM seed plants take away from the true potential of the plant.. the plants don't usually grow with the same Vigor..the yields aren't always quite the same.. the plants themselves are more prone to herm.. altering the sex and growing out a bunch of FEM seed plants supposedly compared to regs you just don't get the same level of performance as you do when you grow out REG seed plants.. the cannabinoid profiles aren't the same... the plants are diminished in quality.. this is not my opinion.. this is what I have been told by respected industry leaders..seed makers.. as I am friends with several breeders.

So I've stayed away from FEM seeds for the past decade.

But with rations like 8/10 female to males.. who needs FEM seeds anyway?

For the last 10 years I've grown Ive always used FEM and REG seeds. Never has made a difference and in fact most my mothers come from fem seeds. You're argument is based on myth and zero evidence that fems are any different other than sexual traits. You're no different than the people who used to spread bs when fem seeds first started, saying they hermie more. You'll find more hermies in your beloved TGA shit then you'll find in Sin City fems for instance. It was a myth and these days a joke. If the genetics are stable fem seeds are no different and no more hermie prone.

I don't usually involve myself in pissing matches but there's thousands of journals, reports and pictures to prove you wrong. You've provided zero evidence.

 

[MonsterDrank]

... You'll find more hermies in your beloved TGA shit then you'll find in Sin City fems for instance. It was a myth and these days a joke. If the genetics are stable fem seeds are no different and no more hermie prone.

I don't usually involve myself in pissing matches but there's thousands of journals, reports and pictures to prove you wrong. You've provided zero evidence.

I've grown hundreds of TGA plants and only had a single Jacks Cleaner II herm at Day 63. It was sterile tho, no pollen.. no seeds. To be honest.. that was one of 3 plants total in the last decade I've had ever to show male preflowers. My friends call me "The Hermless King." You keep as close to perfect environment as possible.. and usually things like this just don't happen unless the plant blooms for too long.

Besides the Jacks Cleaner II.. the other hermies were a Boognish Rising (Black Rose/DPD cross) from a guy on Cannazon, and an Ultimate Moondawg from Elite Genetics.

and for the last time re: FEM seeds.. this will be the last I speak of it.. Idk what kinda evidence you want? There's really no evidence or proof contrary to support either conclusion one is better than the other. I cold provide direct quotes from breeders who say why they don't create FEM seeds that would support my above opinion.. but it seems like a giant waste of time. Above we kinda mutually already said.. we're finished on that topic, all kinda agreed that topic isn't going anywhere.. let's just agree to disagree.. k?

 

[madininagyal]

yea we kinda got off topic..

my whole point to the conversation was the In-House Genetics team kinda seemed like a bunch of clowns. that was pretty much it.

Have you grown some in house or saw a bad comment about their gear?? So why can you say they are a bunch of clown??? Feel more like you are the clown because we don't give a fudge about what you think if you have nothing to back your word!!!

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Ive ran most of Subcool menu and only had qleaner hermie on me and chances are its my fault. I am a tester for Sin city, and active member over there. and the main crosses that are hermie prone for them are fems and crosses with cookies in the mix.

there are tons of threads where Sin mint and tang power hermied.

There is science behind why Fems are prone to hermie. because they are a product of hermie. Some strains hermie easier than others, and if it is used for reversing, the progeny is shaky at best.

It is also basic genetic science that offspring have genetic cursors fro their parents. Fems are meant to be just like mom, where regulars can present recessive gentics from generations ago.

While I agree that a good FEM product can be stable, and also very uniform in appearance from sster to sister, there is just not enough variation for me. I would rather choose from a few more sisters with recessive genes and characteristics

 

[Thefarmer12]

I've grown hundreds of TGA plants and only had a single Jacks Cleaner II herm at Day 63. It was sterile tho, no pollen.. no seeds. To be honest.. that was one of 3 plants total in the last decade I've had ever to show male preflowers. My friends call me "The Hermless King." You keep as close to perfect environment as possible.. and usually things like this just don't happen unless the plant blooms for too long.

Besides the Jacks Cleaner II.. the other hermies were a Boognish Rising (Black Rose/DPD cross) from a guy on Cannazon, and an Ultimate Moondawg from Elite Genetics.

and for the last time re: FEM seeds.. this will be the last I speak of it.. Idk what kinda evidence you want? There's really no evidence or proof contrary to support either conclusion one is better than the other. I cold provide direct quotes from breeders who say why they don't create FEM seeds that would support my above opinion.. but it seems like a giant waste of time. Above we kinda mutually already said.. we're finished on that topic, all kinda agreed that topic isn't going anywhere.. let's just agree to disagree.. k?

The thousands if not hundred of thousands of journals, reports, pictures and experiences support FEM seeds producing great plants of exact quality to regs, as I noted. Not much to support the opposing view other than "trust me this happened, breeders say this".

Agree to disagree. And I can firmly agree you're wrong. I am a peaceful person and do not like confrontation but I also dislike very much the spreading of false information, especially when new growers can't differentiate what is the truth and what is not and we (should be) a community of education and accuracy.

Kudos for not letting it get out of hand. I respect your opinion but will fight it to the death Good day then.

 

[madininagyal]

I've grown hundreds of TGA plants and only had a single Jacks Cleaner II herm at Day 63. It was sterile tho, no pollen.. no seeds. To be honest.. that was one of 3 plants total in the last decade I've had ever to show male preflowers. My friends call me "The Hermless King." You keep as close to perfect environment as possible.. and usually things like this just don't happen unless the plant blooms for too long.

Besides the Jacks Cleaner II.. the other hermies were a Boognish Rising (Black Rose/DPD cross) from a guy on Cannazon, and an Ultimate Moondawg from Elite Genetics.

and for the last time re: FEM seeds.. this will be the last I speak of it.. Idk what kinda evidence you want? There's really no evidence or proof contrary to support either conclusion one is better than the other. I cold provide direct quotes from breeders who say why they don't create FEM seeds that would support my above opinion.. but it seems like a giant waste of time. Above we kinda mutually already said.. we're finished on that topic, all kinda agreed that topic isn't going anywhere.. let's just agree to disagree.. k?

Grow a lot of and only 3 hermie and surprise 2 was from regular... you argument is invalide and outdated sir

 

[dirtyshawa]

Yeah, the fem debate is one that I view like growing styles. You have to go with what works with you. I've personally never had a problem with hermies affecting a crop, EVER. I don't see how I ever could either, because I check my plants all the time...it's fascinating to do so and never gets old. To me, my experience with Dj Shorts, Serious, and the strains Sannie worked were no better than my experience with the polys I've grown. True Blueberry being the one exception, dank as hell, yielded out the ass, but took forever to finish. With that being said, variety is the spice of life and some of these seed companies popping up are producing unbelievable dank. I'm in the Bay all the time and there's always some awesome poly, platinum cut, or crazy new cross popping up to take an old or even relatively new "elite" to that next level. That's the good thing about cannabis, the more variety added into a gene pool produces more illustrious rarities. Look at the makeup of a world renowned strain like gg#4. There's chems, sour, dj short, etc. all in the bloodline. In house is doing good shit imo and I see plenty of people reaping the benefits. I can't speak for other people, but I don't like smoking the same strains over and over for years and years. I may come back to something that is timeless, but to me there aren't many old school strains that are timeless to me other than sour d, chem4-d, whitemoonshine. To each his own though.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Only clowns I know of are the jerkoffs that don't answer instagram and act like gods. cant be bothered with questions from the peasants.

Even then Ill give their cross a try. You never know where youll find something killer. In House Genetics wise, they have a lot of killer moms, and their price is in line with untested lines.

im NOT A CHEAP BASTARD HOWEVER, and Ill gladly pay top dollar. Even the less than stellar pay for itself first run. who cares.

I spent 500 on 2 packs of GGG breeders stash recently and am quite interested in Aficonado. But then again Im not a starving college student.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

you can thank the early breeders who took it more seriously, that laid the foundation for todays strains.

It all goes back to Skunk #1, Northern Lights, FLO, Durban poison etc before the 80's breeders it was mostly all ditchweed in USA. Careful selection and stabilizing brought tit to where it is today.