12/12 From Seed Experiment - 21 Strains
- Thread starter Hot Diggity Sog
- Start date
glockdoc
Well-Known Member
@jigfresh can give u some very good insight. if you need it.. maybe next run?!
he ran aero same set up as u in a small closet 1000w vert and did well.
i personally think you will be satisfied.
it will all come to what cut puts out for ya and accommodates to your accommodation.
get a good idea of what to run in a staggered perpetual grow
that and your running multiple strains which can be hard if one or a few are finicky. that would fuck everything up.
your doing well
he ran aero same set up as u in a small closet 1000w vert and did well.
i personally think you will be satisfied.
it will all come to what cut puts out for ya and accommodates to your accommodation.
get a good idea of what to run in a staggered perpetual grow
that and your running multiple strains which can be hard if one or a few are finicky. that would fuck everything up.
your doing well
jigfresh
Well-Known Member
Did someone say my name? What up Glocdoc.
Not having read more than the past two pages I can say that I think you spacing things out would be a good idea. Both plants sites and rows, like you mentioned. In my heath inspired setup I ended up using every other plant site to space things out and found I liked it a lot better.
Good luck with everything, and if you have any ideas you'd like a second opinion I'd be glad to offer mine.
I ran 2 rows in a 2' x 3' closet with a 1000w going up the middle, after that I switched to 450w of LED's. I was pulling from 14-20 oz with 6 plants. I had 10 sites, but started skipping some as I mentioned.
Not having read more than the past two pages I can say that I think you spacing things out would be a good idea. Both plants sites and rows, like you mentioned. In my heath inspired setup I ended up using every other plant site to space things out and found I liked it a lot better.
Good luck with everything, and if you have any ideas you'd like a second opinion I'd be glad to offer mine.
I ran 2 rows in a 2' x 3' closet with a 1000w going up the middle, after that I switched to 450w of LED's. I was pulling from 14-20 oz with 6 plants. I had 10 sites, but started skipping some as I mentioned.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I've read thru much but not all of your journal...it's quite long!Did someone say my name? What up Glocdoc.
Not having read more than the past two pages I can say that I think you spacing things out would be a good idea. Both plants sites and rows, like you mentioned. In my heath inspired setup I ended up using every other plant site to space things out and found I liked it a lot better.
Good luck with everything, and if you have any ideas you'd like a second opinion I'd be glad to offer mine.
I ran 2 rows in a 2' x 3' closet with a 1000w going up the middle, after that I switched to 450w of LED's. I was pulling from 14-20 oz with 6 plants. I had 10 sites, but started skipping some as I mentioned.
I'm tentatively thinking of increasing the row spacing from 11.5" to 14" and increase the plant spacing from 5.5" to somewhere around 7 or 8 inches. Need to wait a few more weeks before these decisions can be made.
gulfcoastgrower
Well-Known Member
like your grows jig
Alaric
Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I plan on reaching out and speaking with you more pretty soon man.
Alaric
Well-Known Member
Not yet----kinda scattered around. I have plans to get off my lazy arse and create one.
A~~~
drgroove
Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Hey everyone...I'll get a proper update later today but I'm having some troubles and I'm hoping you can help. Let me start with some pictures and then I'll provide as much helpful information as I can.
Water Temps: The chiller is working flawlessly. Water temps fluctuate between 67 and 68 degrees. I even took readings of the water as it left the tubes to return to the reservoir (thinking maybe the water warmed during it's trip). This measurement came in at 67.5 degrees.
Root Conditions: Most plants cannot be lifted far enough to get a really good look but I found one of the smaller ones and was able to pull it completely out. Her roots as well as the ones I could see floating in the tubes looked great. Nice and white and the felt great too. No slimy feeling at all.
Variations in Strains: This problem is affecting all 5 strains but the C99's are being affected the least. The other 4 strains have a pretty equal distribution.
Not all plants have this and the ones that do seem to only have a few leaves affected. Most of them are on the bottom 1/2 of the plant but some of them have this on the upper half but none of them have it on the very top most leaves.
EC: Over the lat 6 days, EC was pretty consistent. 6 days ago when I changed the water, it was 1.4. I added fresh water twice due to how much they are drinking. It went from 1.4 down to 1.2 and then down to 1.0.
PH: PH has been fluctuating a lot. The pattern I see is that it is around 6.2 or so when I change the water and it remains pretty consistent there for 3 days. It might rise a small amount for the 1st 2 days...Up to 6.3 or 6.4 but never higher. On the 4th, 5th and 6th day, the PH starts to drop considerably. Typically on day 4 it will be 5.9. Day 5 it will be 5.5. Today was the 1st time I've gone 6 days without changing the water and it was 5.1 this morning.
I changed the water this morning and also flushed an extra 10 gallons of plain water through before mixing up fresh nutrients. PH is at 6.2. EC is 1.2.
Based on this information, can anyone help diagnose this?
Water Temps: The chiller is working flawlessly. Water temps fluctuate between 67 and 68 degrees. I even took readings of the water as it left the tubes to return to the reservoir (thinking maybe the water warmed during it's trip). This measurement came in at 67.5 degrees.
Root Conditions: Most plants cannot be lifted far enough to get a really good look but I found one of the smaller ones and was able to pull it completely out. Her roots as well as the ones I could see floating in the tubes looked great. Nice and white and the felt great too. No slimy feeling at all.
Variations in Strains: This problem is affecting all 5 strains but the C99's are being affected the least. The other 4 strains have a pretty equal distribution.
Not all plants have this and the ones that do seem to only have a few leaves affected. Most of them are on the bottom 1/2 of the plant but some of them have this on the upper half but none of them have it on the very top most leaves.
EC: Over the lat 6 days, EC was pretty consistent. 6 days ago when I changed the water, it was 1.4. I added fresh water twice due to how much they are drinking. It went from 1.4 down to 1.2 and then down to 1.0.
PH: PH has been fluctuating a lot. The pattern I see is that it is around 6.2 or so when I change the water and it remains pretty consistent there for 3 days. It might rise a small amount for the 1st 2 days...Up to 6.3 or 6.4 but never higher. On the 4th, 5th and 6th day, the PH starts to drop considerably. Typically on day 4 it will be 5.9. Day 5 it will be 5.5. Today was the 1st time I've gone 6 days without changing the water and it was 5.1 this morning.
I changed the water this morning and also flushed an extra 10 gallons of plain water through before mixing up fresh nutrients. PH is at 6.2. EC is 1.2.
Based on this information, can anyone help diagnose this?
akhiymjames
Well-Known Member
Seems like they are starting to eat a lot more since they are hitting the flower session. With them eating more the ph will start to drop rapidly which I believe is the indication that they have used up the available nutes thus creating the rapid ph drop. With the ph dropping like that it has caused some lockout. I think because your on top of things is the reason it isn't affecting a lot of plants but you may have to top up nutes during midweek to help keep the ph in range. Def not a hydro guru but I experienced a lot of this with my hydro run so that's what I'm thinking and those were the things I did. Mines had a medium so that may have been affecting mines too but you don't so it has to be when the ph drops below 5.8 and lower and something is getting locked out
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
So I've been thinking about what James said as well as just my own experience...which of course is quite limited.
My tap water (well water) is PH 7.2. Adding nutes drops the PH. So logic says if PH starts rising a little for the first couple of days that might mean they are consuming nutes. But wouldn't the EC drop if that is the case? This week I will change things up a little bit. When I need to add water I won't add plain water. I'll mix up another batch with nutes and ph down as if it was a complete rez change.
My tap water (well water) is PH 7.2. Adding nutes drops the PH. So logic says if PH starts rising a little for the first couple of days that might mean they are consuming nutes. But wouldn't the EC drop if that is the case? This week I will change things up a little bit. When I need to add water I won't add plain water. I'll mix up another batch with nutes and ph down as if it was a complete rez change.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Airstones yes. Silica No.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
That first part sounds good, it's supposed to climb a little. The EC should drop a little. And the water level should drop too. That second part you describe, about the ph dropping, sounds like imbalance from over-fertilizing. The ratio you give is never the exact ratio the plant takes up and the larger the difference, the bigger the issue. For example, it possibly sucks out most of the N and K which leaves a high amount, relatively, of P. pH fluctuations are often a result of an imbalance between cation and anion, between positively charged and negatively charged ions that is. Every time an elements This is also why controlling PH with products like Ph down (P or N acid) and pH up (K) is not very effective once that imbalance is fact - it often only makes it worse (ie. drop or climb faster).
Too much of one element, i.e. imbalance, messes with the uptake of others, even if there's enough of it in the soup. It's highly unlikely that 1.0 EC is not enough in NFT to a point that it causes deficiencies. Cannabis also doesn't start using more nutrients drastically during early flowering compared to the transition/stretch period where it still adds on a lot of mass ( leaves and branches and roots). The symptom in the first pic looks like a deficiency but it's unlikely from a too low EC. The edges on the leaves in the last couple of pics look burned.
I always burn the tips of some of my plants on my tubes at the end of the stretching period, when they stop vegetating and need less nutes, the EC stops dropping and PH starts dropping. Then I lower EC, and build up, and lower again near the end. 1.0 EC from start the finish should work for pretty much every strain though, given a some balanced soup to start with.
What is the NPK ratio of the nutrients you use? And what type of PH down do you use? (I suggest nitric acid, not phosphor).
That first part is exactly what I would suggest, don't add just water but add water with nutrients. That's doable if you run slightly below that spot where the EC stays stable (which isn't a goal nor ideal by itself). This is why I don't put the nutes for one week in a rez at the start of the week, I add a little every 2 - 4 days. Last run on my tubes I refreshed the rez entirely twice during the entire cycle, the rest I just added water and nutes. So I suggest lowering the EC to a point that you notice it drop a minimal amount every day or two. If the pH drops too fast, just add water (lowering the EC, raising the Ph). By itself some pH fluctuation between 5.8 and 6.2 is good, between 5.6 and 6.5 still as long as the soup is balanced.
Also, are those pics with the light on, or another light? Can you take some with flash in the dark, tends to show their natural color better.
Is the smaller one with the healthy roots affected too? Does the water still smell fresh at the end?
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Also, are those pics with the light on, or another light? Can you take some with flash in the dark, tends to show their natural color better.
These pictures are with the HPS on and then color corrected with the Nikon Capture NX-D software. Sure, I will take pics again to get clearer detail.
It's highly unlikely that 1.0 EC is not enough in NFT to a point that it causes deficiencies.
OK. And you have said this before. Basically I've been trying to follow what I've done the past 2 grows but not quite as aggressively. I'll continue to tone down to try and stay around 1.0. I just switched to the Week #2 and #3 flowering schedule. In the past I would feel comfortable jumping right to 50% strength in my coco grows. Today I did 25% strength...so 1/2 of what I normally would do.
What is the NPK ratio of the nutrients you use?
So...I'm still using Blue Planet Nutrients and there are 7 parts to it. Collectively, I have no idea. If you're interested, here is the feed schedule and their NPK's are in the pictures:
http://blueplanetnutrients.com/index.php/application-guides/3-part-feed-chart
Does the water still smell fresh at the end?
It does...at least as fresh as when I mix a fresh batch. The Seaweed portion of the nutrients really stinks. In addition, I like to rub the water between my fingers to see if it feels a little slimey or funky and it does not. I also do this on the sides and bottom of the rez.
I'm going to try what you did and just add more water as needed with nutes and just keep a close eye on things. Because the temps are under control and light leaks *should* be eliminated I feel pretty safe trying this. I'm keeping a very close eye on them and will report back.
Thanks for taking the time
These pictures are with the HPS on and then color corrected with the Nikon Capture NX-D software. Sure, I will take pics again to get clearer detail.
It's highly unlikely that 1.0 EC is not enough in NFT to a point that it causes deficiencies.
OK. And you have said this before. Basically I've been trying to follow what I've done the past 2 grows but not quite as aggressively. I'll continue to tone down to try and stay around 1.0. I just switched to the Week #2 and #3 flowering schedule. In the past I would feel comfortable jumping right to 50% strength in my coco grows. Today I did 25% strength...so 1/2 of what I normally would do.
What is the NPK ratio of the nutrients you use?
So...I'm still using Blue Planet Nutrients and there are 7 parts to it. Collectively, I have no idea. If you're interested, here is the feed schedule and their NPK's are in the pictures:
http://blueplanetnutrients.com/index.php/application-guides/3-part-feed-chart
Does the water still smell fresh at the end?
It does...at least as fresh as when I mix a fresh batch. The Seaweed portion of the nutrients really stinks. In addition, I like to rub the water between my fingers to see if it feels a little slimey or funky and it does not. I also do this on the sides and bottom of the rez.
I'm going to try what you did and just add more water as needed with nutes and just keep a close eye on things. Because the temps are under control and light leaks *should* be eliminated I feel pretty safe trying this. I'm keeping a very close eye on them and will report back.
Thanks for taking the time