Basic breeding question.

[GOLDBERG71]

breeding with polys is no bueno because your starting at ground zero, you know nothing about that plants lineage because its been selected from 4 unique populations and genetically speaking is going to be all over the board starting with solid IBL's you know at least a few of the genes and whether there dominant or recessive etc.

even better to start from landraces... but we dont all have that luxury.

sound really cool, let me know if ytou ever post a log on that big grow id love to watch

I see. But I guess where I get lost is even though there are multiple lineages in the polys the strain does have specific traits. So if I were to pick a specific pheno let's say the hazey pheno of SSH and combine it with a hazey pheno of afghan/haze. ( I haven't grown the afg/haze yet) I'd obviously be searching for a hazey pheno byproduct. It stands to reason that there would be many more pheno than I would find in either parental line. But since the objective at MNS is to make sure there's a keeper in each pack. It would seem to me by combining the 2 it might take me 40 seeds rather than 20 to find a keeper. I wouldn't expect to pop 6 seeds and find what I wanted. But if I found 1 out of 40 like my pee brain thinks is logical. Now say I did this twice. Now I have 2 keeper females. From the same original batch of seeds. If I reversed one for pollen and crossed it with the other. I would logically expect to be pushing the odds up of finding the keeper maybe not reaching the goal of 1/20 but lower than 1/40.

Let me back up to what got me thinking about this. I got a freebie of original amnesia from dinafem. Like I said I let my flowers go a bit longer for the occasional female seeds. I've saved and labeled them all. Since until now I have always had multiple strains together. So I can never be sure if it's selfed or pollinated from a different keeper in the room. After I got off the SSH I moved to the og amnesia as my head stash. I already had a few seeds. I popped and grew 7 of them. There were obviously different phenos. 1 was identical to the mother that held the seeds but it was miniature. 1 was identical to the parent but smelled better and was even stronger. I kept that one. But the other 5 were identical to each other and we're all potent with huge flowers but they lost a little flavor. But if it wasn't for the one I kept any of the 5 I would have kept. So of the 7 beans I popped I had 6 to choose from that doesn't seem bad to me and I put no effort in to making them. It was only once and I wouldn't expect the same results. But since everything was easily sellable I started to think about actually trying. Just because the results might not meet my standards it sure would keep me interested. And I'd be getting paid to hunt for what ever I'm searching for.

Maybe you can take a peak at my thread below about MNS. There's a guy posting over there wondering why Shanti doesn't want to cross his gear with clone only strains. I couldn't think of a good reason. But I'm sure he has one. And maybe your point is why? But I couldn't speak about it knowledgeably enough to bother trying.

 

[bf80255]

I see. But I guess where I get lost is even though there are multiple lineages in the polys the strain does have specific traits. So if I were to pick a specific pheno let's say the hazey pheno of SSH and combine it with a hazey pheno of afghan/haze. ( I haven't grown the afg/haze yet) I'd obviously be searching for a hazey pheno byproduct. It stands to reason that there would be many more pheno than I would find in either parental line. But since the objective at MNS is to make sure there's a keeper in each pack. It would seem to me by combining the 2 it might take me 40 seeds rather than 20 to find a keeper. I wouldn't expect to pop 6 seeds and find what I wanted. But if I found 1 out of 40 like my pee brain thinks is logical. Now say I did this twice. Now I have 2 keeper females. From the same original batch of seeds. If I reversed one for pollen and crossed it with the other. I would logically expect to be pushing the odds up of finding the keeper maybe not reaching the goal of 1/20 but lower than 1/40.
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multiple lineages means each one of those traits your after is guaranteed to be heterozygous for how it is inherited meaning you just added about 3 generations just to start getting homozygous gene pairings reliably. It mainly just adds time and work and for someone without enough space to make at minimum selections of 100 (preferably 1000) youll risk losing genes to genetic drift caused by bottlenecking your population (unless you spent years at each generation till you had large enough population sizes to select from.) with polys you just dont know what your working with so its going to tack on a lot of time to a project that could easily be avoided by just sourcing some good IBL genetics even if you only use 1 IBL and a poly its still better than going in blind.

basically hybrids dont predictably pass on traits only tightly bred specimens can achieve this result.
its across the board from dog breeding all the way out to cannabis.

if your just looking for a "keeper" then polys are actually a good place to look because of the high level of variation and high degree of heterozygosity pretty much ensuring some form of heterosis "hybrid vigor" but if you try to breed with her then the real work begins

yeah thatd work (find 2 identical girls from the same batch, flip one and pollinate the other) then in the F2 the genes will segregate and youd choose the plant that most resembles what youd want but I wouldnt suggest running any lower than 100 females in your F2 (this generation is very important) it pretty much establishes the line and all that comes after it.

most of the traits were interested in are quantitative (yield, height, effect) the only way I know to get these reliably is to select rigorously for them generation after generation only keeping specimens that fit the "type" and can perform the appropriate function under your specific environment (pheno vs geno) I have a list, and if plants dont match every criteria on it they are deemed unworthy or "non working" and are effectively culled from the population.
7 generations of this have started to yield fantastic results!

those are hard, easy traits like color, leaf shape etc can be knocked out in 2 or 3 generations.