Easy diy "laymens" coco coir ingredients from Fatman

[shackleferd]

With $50 you can make an almost unlimited supply of your own nutes. It is very important to use warm distilled water when mixing ingredients. Like some commercial nutes if you let the bottles sit awhile the caking agents will separate and collect at the bottom, make sure you "shake" the bottles before use. These inert caking agents will not harm your plants they are used to keep chems such as potassium nitrate turning into a rock, it has the same effect as using rice in salt shakers. I have done side by side grows with commercial nutes and you cant tell the difference between the two. No need to adjust the ph of the chems, ph is stable between 5.5-5.8. Most if not all the ingredients you can buy on ebay, you can find potassium nitrate at lowes it is the main ingredient in stump removers. If you do not trust ebay there are several fertilizer companies online, however shipping is a little high and most of the time you must buy in bulk. However it is still a 1000 times cheaper than commercial brands. I also have ingredients for a lot of commercial brands, hit me up and ill let you know if i have them. I mainly use fatmans ingredients because the ph is stable and it contains a little more calcium and iron than commercial brands which is very importent with coco coir grows. I don't have to use calmag or ph up and down which is a huge plus on my wallet.

this is his COCO Coir recipe>

(1 gallon Part A & 1 gallon Part B of both formulas)

Coco Grow

The list below is not the ingredients but the amount of each element in ppms. Commercial brands show by %. Below this list are the ingredients in ounces per gallon.

Nitrogen 268
Phosphorus 89
Potassium 179
Magnesium 32
Calcium 315
Sulfur 43
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00 .
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00
Molbdnum 0.09

Ingredients are listed below in Ounces Per Gallon, this is a two part mix per growth stage and bloom stage. Below is for the growth stage. When you first mix these chemicals together its important to use warm distilled water. You will also need the proper scales to measure small amounts such as .002 of an ounce when you first make a batch. When you're ready to feed your plants make sure you shake them just like commercial brands, mix both part a and b then feed.
Coco Grow

Part A

Calcium Nitrate 20.8
Potassium Nitrate 1.2
Iron Chelate 1.35


Part B

Potassium Nitrate 1.2
MonoPotassium Phosphate 5.6
Magnesium Sulfate 4.3
Manganese Sulfate .269
Boric Acid / Solubor .368
Zinc Sulfate .291
Copper Sulfate .059
Ammonium Molybdate .002

Ph 5.5-5.8


Coco Bloom

ppm
Nitrogen 200
Phosphorus 200
Potassium 300
Magnesium 50
Calcium 231
Sulfur 66
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00

Ounces

Part A

Calcium Nitrate 15.3
Potassium Nitrate 1.0
Iron Chelate 1.35



Part B
Potassium Nitrate 1.0
MonoPotassium Phosphate 12.6
Magnesium Sulfate 6.7
Manganese Sulfate .269
Boric Acid / Solubor .368
Zinc Sulfate .291
Copper Sulfate .059
Ammonium Molybdate .002


ph 5.5-5.8

 

[shackleferd]

If you dont like fatmans recipe for whatever reason, I have the flora recipe below

Based upon the most recent analysis of Floramicro and Flora Bloom this is the corrected formula for the Lucas Method:

ppm concentrations at a 1:100 dilution

Nitrogen 167
Phosphorus 333
Potassium 397
Magnesium 100
Calcium 215
Sulfur 133
Iron 3.33
Manganese 1.67
Boron 1.67
Zinc 1.00
Copper .33
Molybdenum .03

Ounces
PART A
Calcium Nitrate 14.2
Iron Chelate .45

Ounces
Part B
MonoPotassium Phosphate 21.0
Magnesium Sulfate 13.5
Manganese Sulfate .090
Boric Acid / Solubor.123
Zinc Sulfate .058
Copper Sulfate .020
Ammonium Molybdate .001

Volume of Stock Solutions 1/2 gallon each part

Dilution Rate
100

This is a high concentrate formulation based upon analysis concentrations. The EC of the Part A is 1.08, Part B EC = 1.64, combined the EC is 2.72. Obviously a higher EC then most would consider using.

The PH used with RO water should be 5.4 at 1:100

The TDS ast a 1:100 mix is 1904

 

[shackleferd]

This recipe is based upon an analysis of bottled GH micro and bloom combined on a 1 to 2 , so: N=5, P=10, K=9 and M=3
i.e the Lucas Formula

Amounts are in Ounces: Final ppm each nutrient: N=176, P=133, K=300, M=100, Calcium=166
Part A.
Calcium Nitrate 75.3
Iron Chelate 2.25

Part B.
Mono Potassium Phosphate 104.8
Magnesium Sulfate 67.4

Trace Part B.
Manganese Sulfate 0.448
Boric Acid 0.085
Zinc Sulfate 0.009
Copper Sulfate 0.003
Ammonium Molybdate 0.0014


This recipe is for a x100 concentrate. That means a combination of 2.5 gallons of Part A. And 2.5 gallons of Part B to which the trace nutrients are added. With all mixed to gether in a dry mix you have the dry mix equivalent of Floro Nova Bloom without the added humus.

This should cost about $35 to mix up. ie about $7 per gallon.

 

[churchhaze]

Both me and atomizer independently questioned the levels of Zn, Fe, Mn, and B, and I pointed out the excessively high Ca : Mg ratio in the grow formula and the ridiculously high levels of P.

You argued that since soil has very high concentrations of Fe, that it's appropriate that a hydroponic formula can also contain levels of Fe in excess. In soil, however, the pH is usually between 6-7, where Fe is less available. At a pH of 5.8, this is very different and iron will begin to start locking out other elements... which are also at very toxic levels... what is the point of this?

There are many well known good formulas that exist already. Most of the better ones are already built into hydrobuddy, like howard resh tomato, or university of florida tomato, etc.. There's also the hoagland solution, which is considered the de facto nutrient in the scientific community. All of these formulas are very similar to each other, and do not have the problems addressed relating to toxic levels of Zn, Fe, Mn, B, as well an excessively high Ca:Mg ratio in the grow formula. They could go for a bit of tweaking, but in general, they all have sane element levels.

 

[churchhaze]

He's using a salt called "iron chelate", without saying what kind of chelating agent is used, or what the percentage is... He says Boric Acid / Solubor.123. Well which is it? Boric acid, or solubor? Solubor is sodium borate decahydrate. using that instead of boric acid would result in a totally different level of boron.

 

[churchhaze]

The lucas method posted is way better in terms of micro levels, but has WAY too much P, too much K, and too low of a Ca:Mg ratio. (way too much Mg). Other than that, it's okay.. I've never liked the lucas formula.

 

[Atomizer]

when you say it has too much P, its an understatement. There`s almost 3kg (6.6lbs) of MKP in that 2.5gal (1:100) stock solution

This recipe is for a x100 concentrate. That means a combination of 2.5 gallons of Part A. And 2.5 gallons of Part B to which the trace nutrients are added. With all mixed to gether in a dry mix you have the dry mix equivalent of Floro Nova Bloom without the added humus.

1:100 = 10ml A and 10ml B per litre. (37.85ml A and 37.85ml B per us gallon, 3.7854L).
If you follow this recipe, the EC will be well over 5 and the P wil be nowhere near 133ppm.

 

[shackleferd]

Here we go again, you two must work for some nute company. Ive been using fatmans recipe forever, even with the "wrong" type of chelated iron and still come out perfect without a sign of nute stress or lock out. Numbers dont lie, everything is spot on. However your responses are just like other sites i have seen, everybody has their own recipe and way of doing things that work for them. The flora and gh nutes are exactly the same ingredients if not better than the stuff you buy online but if it makes you feel safe go ahead and buy the commercial brands. btw..about to check and see if you are correct with the ec rate. Will post results

 

[shackleferd]

when you say it has too much P, its an understatement. There`s almost 3kg (6.6lbs) of MKP in that 2.5gal (1:100) stock solution


1:100 = 10ml A and 10ml B per litre. (37.85ml A and 37.85ml B per us gallon, 3.7854L).
If you follow this recipe, the EC will be well over 5 and the P wil be nowhere near 133ppm.

Do any of you have recipes or are you here to pin prick mine and the ones off the net? btw..EC is at 1.78, diluted to average strength ph is at 4.6. Like i said the reason i prefer fatmans recipe is that its high in iron and calcium and ph is stable at 5.5-5.8, exactly what coir/hydro needs unless you just love purchasing calmag and ph adjusters... If you are using soil as your medium i suggest you use the flora or gh recipes.

 

[churchhaze]

Well I mean, there's mine for one.. but it's designed around hard water. Hard water recipe for 1L of A and B mixes, 400x concentration:



You see correctly. I don't even provide Zn (yet) and never get Zn deficiency just by throwing a small piece of post 1983 penny in each reservoir. (for good luck). I guess my water has enough Zn.

 

[churchhaze]

Are you really asking me to list all the recipes built into hydrobuddy? (like the ones from u of florida)

 

[shackleferd]

He's using a salt called "iron chelate", without saying what kind of chelating agent is used, or what the percentage is... He says Boric Acid / Solubor.123. Well which is it? Boric acid, or solubor? Solubor is sodium borate decahydrate. using that instead of boric acid would result in a totally different level of boron.

Do you realize the difference between the two types of boron, it is less than 4%.

 

[shackleferd]

Nitric acid? good luck finding that, ill stick with the other nitrate compounds commercial brands use. You do realize some of your ingredients are hard to find and are red listed items. Check out any bottle of fertilizer, most use potassium nitrate and calcium nitrate and for good reason.

 

[churchhaze]

Nitric acid? good luck finding that, ill stick with the other nitrate compounds commercial brands use.

I said it's for hard water. I have so much calcium carbonate in my water, and to make up for that, I use significantly less calcium nitrate, and instead use nitric acid to get those nitrates. In RO, that nitric acid is calcium nitrate.

I'm a bit busy now. Check hoagland solution for a good reference. Add about 10-20ppm P and there's your bloom formula.

 

[shackleferd]

I said it's for hard water. I have so much calcium carbonate in my water, and to make up for that, I use significantly less calcium nitrate, and instead use nitric acid to get those nitrates. In RO, that nitric acid is calcium nitrate.

I'm a bit busy now. Check hoagland solution for a good reference. Add about 10-20ppm P and there's your bloom formula.

Why would you use hardwater in hydro and nitric acid to fix it.., but anyway im outta here. I already know where this is going.

 

[churchhaze]

Why would you use hardwater in hydro and red listed nitric acid to fix it..lol, but anyway im outta here. I already know where this is going.

It's what comes out of my faucets. Why would I do it? I copied the idea from "Ionic for hard water". Not that I'd ever use them... (Where's the iron?) I either have to replace some of the calcium nitrate with nitric acid, or I have to use RO. It does work.

 

[shackleferd]

hmm, never thought about fixing water like that..Learn something new everyday

 

[Atomizer]

Do any of you have recipes or are you here to pin prick mine and the ones off the net? btw..EC is at 1.78, diluted to average strength ph is at 4.6. Like i said the reason i prefer fatmans recipe is that its high in iron and calcium and ph is stable at 5.5-5.8, exactly what coir/hydro needs unless you just love purchasing calmag and ph adjusters... If you are using soil as your medium i suggest you use the flora or gh recipes.

I have loads of recipes. I`m simply trying to save some poor sod from taking a recipe on faith, wasting a shedload of chemicals or nuking a room full of plants. Anyone who makes their own nutes can see its fundamentally flawed .The EC at 1:100 dilution wont be 1.78 and there`s no dilution rate you can use that will give you the elemental ppms stated. What`s the point of posting a recipe, where the chemical weight and dilution rate dont come close to matching the ppm?
I seriously doubt you have 10yrs experience of making nutes or you`d know how worthless this recipe really is..

 

[chickenthr33]

Damn that dude never posted again after you said that Atomizer. You scared him away for good.

 

[rshackleferd]

Anyone who makes their own nutes can see its fundamentally flawed

How so? fundamentally flawed?
Everything is spot on, harvest weight and plant health doesn't lie. Nute calculator also doesn't lie and pin points exactly whats in the mix. I know exactly what my plants are feeding on unlike commercial brands that require additives to make up for what they lack such as calcium, iron and magnesium aka calmag. There is also no need for ph adjusters which can cause havoc with your medium especially soil grows. It is already adjusted in the formula. I went from an average 8 ounces to 10+ using fatmans formula. Dilution rate? never heard about this from any grow site on diy nutes. Even if that is the case I use the same ingredients commercial brands use in theirs. More often than not i use better ingredients such as they type of iron chelate "-eddha" . Why would they have a different "dilution" rate than mine? And why haven't I heard about this dilution rate from any diy nute site? If dilution rate is such a problem why haven't i seen any type of deficiencies?