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majins
Well-Known Member
Before flowing doesn't speed it up, But it helps for stubborn strains.
I dont believe at the end of flowering it increase resin production. But iv always just done it for the flavour since during night all the sugars go down to the roots.
So giving it that extra time before cutting youv made sure everything that can has dropped down to the roots.
One thing that does increase resin tho is having a dry environment, More resin is made to protect the buds.
I dont believe at the end of flowering it increase resin production. But iv always just done it for the flavour since during night all the sugars go down to the roots.
So giving it that extra time before cutting youv made sure everything that can has dropped down to the roots.
One thing that does increase resin tho is having a dry environment, More resin is made to protect the buds.
WeedFreak78
Well-Known Member
A extended dark period before flower may allow larger amount of flowering hormones to build up increasing the flower response. Light degrades the flowering hormone, which is why plants generally won't flower when they have a higher percentage of light on vs light off time. A repeated 12/12hr dark/light cycle is usually enough to allow the hormones to build up without being degrade by light to induce flowering. There is anecdotal evidence it can speed the onset of flower and shorten the flower period to a degree. Until i am able to see it firsthand I won't give a definitive answer.
Cooler temps, extended dark and uv light are all used to enhance the flowering response. Cooler temps and extending the dark period signal the end of the plants life cycle and it pushes as hard as it can to finish fruiting. Trichomes increase as a response to uv light as a protection mechanism against excessive uv. I believe trichome production also increases due to extreme cold as a frost protection device, where the plant will sacrifice trichomes to frost rather than the leaf itself..kind of a insulation layer.
Cooler temps, extended dark and uv light are all used to enhance the flowering response. Cooler temps and extending the dark period signal the end of the plants life cycle and it pushes as hard as it can to finish fruiting. Trichomes increase as a response to uv light as a protection mechanism against excessive uv. I believe trichome production also increases due to extreme cold as a frost protection device, where the plant will sacrifice trichomes to frost rather than the leaf itself..kind of a insulation layer.
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
1: No It's a particular light spectrum range that initiates flowering.....
610 - 720 nm The red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis. (promotes flowering and budding)
In Sunlight the ratio of red (660nm) to far red (730nm) is about 1.2:1
Interestingly Phytochrome Pr is activated by 660nm and Pfr is activated by 730nm.
You want to concentrate at the 730nm Pfr range flower initiator LEDs (costly units) to get any
real faster flowering onset benefits.
This explains Photoperiodsism and Phytochrome action in plants rather well and is easy to understand.
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Photoperiodism.html
2: No, not at all
As said above to increase trich's - UVB is primary but, the use of S and Mg is cheaper and easier in my book...The results can be impressive when done right.
Doc
610 - 720 nm The red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis. (promotes flowering and budding)
In Sunlight the ratio of red (660nm) to far red (730nm) is about 1.2:1
Interestingly Phytochrome Pr is activated by 660nm and Pfr is activated by 730nm.
You want to concentrate at the 730nm Pfr range flower initiator LEDs (costly units) to get any
real faster flowering onset benefits.
This explains Photoperiodsism and Phytochrome action in plants rather well and is easy to understand.
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Photoperiodism.html
2: No, not at all
As said above to increase trich's - UVB is primary but, the use of S and Mg is cheaper and easier in my book...The results can be impressive when done right.
Doc
WeedFreak78
Well-Known Member
Are you saying auxin buildup from dark period has nothing to do with flowering response? Everything I've ever read says this is the main trigger for flowering and the other factors, light spectrum, temps, etc are secondary. I don't see how putting plants under those spectrum for 20hrs a day will induce any flowering. Do those particular spectrums not affect those specific auxins?
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Sigh,,,,,How about you read the paper I listed before your comment.
Auxin is a plant hormone that effects growth rates!
After flower has been initiated. Auxin levels are increased and they are the reason you get elongation or "stretch" in the first weeks of flower.
There are Auxin blockers, that reduce the stretch. Many have been proven to cause cancer and have been banned.
Auxin in certain plants increases fruiting locations (Mostly found to be in melons and squash varieties). These synthetic Auxin's and Auxin increaser's used to do this have been tried in MM and have mixed results. They too have been found to cause cancer and have been banned.
Auxin in excess at or near budding sites can inhibit bud formation (It increases ethylene) ! (Done in artificial testing)
Auxin is more concentrated on the shade side of shoots and is why plants "bend" to the light.
NO,,,,Auxin build up is NOT a flower INITIATOR!
At any rate. It is light expressed in particular Nm bands that signal the release of any chemical change in the plant that may effect the onset of flowering!
Therefor, to express any kind of early flowering onset,,,,,,,one must manipulate the light first!
Nowhere did I say anything about time exposure......especially 20hrs.
So OK, I will. The use of the 730nm Pfr LEDs is done by using a separate timer set to come on about 5 min before lights out and continue for 5-10 min after.
Doc
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WeedFreak78
Well-Known Member
The way I'm reading that report is it agrees with me that light cycles initiate flowering cycles, but light spectrum can speed up or slow down the response.
And I'm going to disagree with you on the auxins, auxin buildup IS what triggers flowering.
And I'm going to disagree with you on the auxins, auxin buildup IS what triggers flowering.
researching
Well-Known Member
Some strains will increase resin production when placed in darkness before the chop. The Flav is one of them.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Please, I'm not trying to argue with you,,,ok? Only teach something important....
My point is that Auxin release is regulated by specific spectral light/time of exposure on several levels.
So then,
"It is light expressed in particular Nm bands that signal the release of any chemical change in the plant that may effect the onset of flowering!" (taken from earlier post)
I know, confusing eh?
Light exposure through out the day is what initiates other cellular peptide changes also.
It is so difficult to express this idea without going into the sheer science, on a chemical to nm range level - that is in such detail, that it appears as not much more then a confusion of terms and numbers that only college and grad students can understand.
Here, read this:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070419140912.htm
See the part about CONSTANS?
Now read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florigen
Here lies my point! (Thanks wiki for my out take)
See which one is first?
Mechanism
Central to the hunt for florigen is an understanding of how plants use seasonal changes in day length to mediate flowering—a mechanism known as photoperiodism. Plants which exhibit photoperiodism may be either 'short day' or 'long day' plants, which in order to flower require short days or long days respectively. Although plants in fact distinguish day length from night length.[1]
The current model suggests the involvement of multiple different factors. Research into florigen is predominately centred on the model organism and long day plant, Arabidopsis thaliana. Whilst much of the florigen pathways appear to be well conserved in other studied species, variations do exist.[2] The mechanism may be broken down into three stages: photoperiod-regulated initiation, signal translocation via the phloem, and induction of flowering at the shoot apical meristem.
Doc
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
How have we come to this conclusion, if I may ask?
Years ago I tried dark period manipulation of trichome production. No real effective gains.....
researching
Well-Known Member
Experience.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
You didn't change anything in the mix between plants did you?
I mean, trust me.....If it were as simple as that,,,,I would have done that years ago!
It is simply not a viable method for the other problems it can create. I mean, how long and when? You should not disrupt the light cycle in the last 2 weeks beyond 18 off/6 on. 18 off will actually give you faster bud growth and an earlier finish. There is a member doing a 6/18 test run right now in the forums.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/my-6hr-flowering-experiment.865489
Low humidity is another one I hear a lot.
It can work to a point but, the problems out weight effects.
Colder nights or larger temp swings at night.
Now we are getting somewhere. This does work more effectively then the first 2. You also get more color expression as a bonus.
Problem is,,,,,,how do you do this cost effectively in the summer months? Aww damn....
Simply put. To effectively increase trich production, the use of UVB, S with Mg and the use of Co2 in flower (increases bud size/density so you get more trich's as buds increase in size) are the hands down best way.
Doc
researching
Well-Known Member
Nothing was changed. Once they appear close to harvest or will fit my schedule to chop they go in complete darkness for 3-4 days.
I want to try UVB as I have heard great things. Jasmonate appeals to me as well.
I want to try UVB as I have heard great things. Jasmonate appeals to me as well.
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
ok, so its the uv rays that increase resin to protect the plant from uv rays correct? and lights off for 24-hrs or more at onset or even after flowering does nothing as i suspected wright?
also, most of us hang plants to dry after they are pulled, so,,,anything in the roots n stem go into the buds wile hanging by gravity,,so having the lights out for days after flower is useless???
researching
Well-Known Member
The only way to be sure of anything is to try it. I tried the darkness and it works with some and not the others. The Flav it does work with. All of these things mentioned trigger an "oh shit!" response in a plant. If you happen to live in the southwest just harvest some sagebrush and make your own tea from it. A natural hormone jasmonate exists within sagebrush. Just like alfalfa contains triacontanol. The jasmonate triggers a response in the plant telling it to create more resin to protect from insect attack.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Auxin
"Auxin plays also a minor role in the initiation of flowering and development of reproductive organs."
Taken from: Plant Hormones: Biosynthesis, Signal Transduction, Action
I knew I saw this somewhere.....wife dug it out....I did not want to say it till I could list the source...
Doc
"Auxin plays also a minor role in the initiation of flowering and development of reproductive organs."
Taken from: Plant Hormones: Biosynthesis, Signal Transduction, Action
I knew I saw this somewhere.....wife dug it out....I did not want to say it till I could list the source...
Doc
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
thanks doc!!!
