SST (sprouted seed tea) do's and donts?
- Thread starter Tjingles
- Start date
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
thank you gentlemen, I've learned some good stuff here, between the vermicomposting and now SSTs I've learned a good amount here recently.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
once a week.
Thanks buddy
DonBrennon
Well-Known Member
Anybody got experience with using a fermented sst? I've seen it claimed it supercharges your sst so you can keep it for long periods and use smaller diluted amounts as it's supposed to be concentrated?
Chester da Horse
Well-Known Member
Hi to all who have contributed to this excellent thread (and thanks for resurrecting it, DonBrennon)
I have a total SST noob question: I have a packet of mixed green manure seeds - could anyone comment on whether this would be suitable for an SST? It contains fenugreek, oats, sub clover, wooly pod vetch, french white millet, buckwheat and broccoli rapa. I also have straight alfalfa seeds.
My first foray into organics I just made my first AACT (+ kelp and fish emulsion) which bubbled up beautifully and stank like dank dirty earth. So hope I can get this SST concept right first time round too.
TIA
I have a total SST noob question: I have a packet of mixed green manure seeds - could anyone comment on whether this would be suitable for an SST? It contains fenugreek, oats, sub clover, wooly pod vetch, french white millet, buckwheat and broccoli rapa. I also have straight alfalfa seeds.
My first foray into organics I just made my first AACT (+ kelp and fish emulsion) which bubbled up beautifully and stank like dank dirty earth. So hope I can get this SST concept right first time round too.
TIA
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
Anyone ever use clover seeds for an sst and end up with really murky water even after the initial rinse? I do a very basic sst; I just soak for 6 - 10 hours, rinse, bubble in a mason jar until the sprouts are longer than the seeds, then puree.
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greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
try to shoot for the hydrosolate instead of the emulsion, it's better. No metals.
Any of those seeds will be fine. Alfalfa seeds is what i'd use.
Chester da Horse
Well-Known Member
IT WORKS!!! so so frothy mmmmmm
and I dumped some fulvic acid (0.4% strength x 1mL/L) in for the final soak - i love the sweet sweet smell
and I dumped some fulvic acid (0.4% strength x 1mL/L) in for the final soak - i love the sweet sweet smell
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
NO!!!!!!!!, don't ferment it, it turns into an herbicide, (acetic acid) which equals DEATH for your ladies.
this is from another site, that an unfortunate grower learned the hard way.
So there came a point in time a few months back I was busy with other things and I had a gallon of barley tea ready to go. Still had the barley in the water, i.e. it hadn't been strained and drained. I had also added kelp meal for its enzymes as well as aloe vera and coconut water for their unique enzymes, PGRs, etc. I was really going to hit it out of the park!
I stuck a cheap (like $8.00) pump with a $.89 airstone and set it aside for a few days. When I was ready to hit the plants with this 'super-duper tea' I smelled it and I couldn't detect any fermentation at all. Nothing.
What I hadn't factored into the deal was Acetic acid. This acid is a herbicide sold as 'horticultural vinegar' and it does what is claimed - it kills leaves and branches. You're not supposed to saturate the soil with it. In effect that is what I did through my ignorance - dumped Acetic acid on the roots.
That plant was dead within 36 hours - finis, ovah, gone and all the 'flushing' in the world wasn't going to fix this problem. Lesson learned.
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine watching a plant die like that, talk about heart break.
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
I had to do that once, back in 2002 or 2003 maybe...
bag of roots.
Transplanted and it almost instantly wilted, like hasn't been watered in a week wilted...
flushed with water, transplanted again, the plant was dead within 12 hrs. I couldn't have killed that plant with roundup quicker.
still don't know what happened, I totally speculate that the roots soil was exposed to an herbicide.
cannabis is in fact an herb...
I was PISSED, it was for an outdoor plant that had vegged for three months and was roughly 4 feet wide by four feet high, and was SCROGed to get me about 15-18 colas...
Probably cost me 2-3 lbs at least. And it was a beaut too.
Last bag of roots I ever bought, went from that to Vermifire, which is some good shit by the way.
Pattahabi
Well-Known Member
Gil carandang promotes fermenting them. I have not tried it, but I can't imagine fermentation being a good thing for enzymes and plant growth hormones.
http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/sprouted-seed-tea/
P-
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
really?
hmmm, well, seems like playing with fire to me... sorta risky
Pattahabi
Well-Known Member
AFAIK, this is something new from Gil. I don't remember seeing that on the site before. I'm not sure what the benefits of fermenting SST's would be?
P-
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
I tend to think that a fermentation state [homolactic] is just as biologically "alive" as an aerated SST, but the differences in organisms and the ability to consume less energy in fermentation are two points of emphasis....
Looking thru the scientific literature most identification of anearobic or faculative organisms is done in the realm of: silage production, food fermentation and bio reactor slurries...Even then I am having trouble finding literature where they are strictly concentrating on identifying particular microlife other than the "standard" in cases of food and fuel production, where one organsim is often identified as the catalyst....and therefore most of the concentration of study in most cases....
In fermenation, the caloric values for energy conversion are about 1/4 of what aerated breakdown needs...this in theory especially with homolactic fermentation, where most of the mass is left, could lead to more enzyme production as a increased food source for faculative yeasts, other fungi, actinomycetes and even anaerobic bacteria too...Just one theory, somewhat speculative, since it isn't entirely data driven....more just theoretical analysis of enzyme reactions...
What do you find particularly troubling about the ferment process and SST's?
Low pH, low DO?
Fermentation and Aeration of these "plant materials" also I think tend to be heavily influenced by their own epiphytic communities and this can vary significantly even with SST's I would imagine! Not said enough...something gleaned from silage studies...
Pattahabi
Well-Known Member
My concern is what does it take to denature an enzyme? Could the low pH or the alcohol (organic solvent) denature the enzymes? Would we be losing some of the plant growth hormones and regulators in the fermentation process? I'd love to know your thoughts. This is above my paygrade, and I haven't had a lot of time to dig.I tend to think that a fermentation state [homolactic] is just as biologically "alive" as an aerated SST, but the differences in organisms and the ability to consume less energy in fermentation are two points of emphasis....
Looking thru the scientific literature most identification of anearobic or faculative organisms is done in the realm of: silage production, food fermentation and bio reactor slurries...Even then I am having trouble finding literature where they are strictly concentrating on identifying particular microlife other than the "standard" in cases of food and fuel production, where one organsim is often identified as the catalyst....and therefore most of the concentration of study in most cases....
In fermenation, the caloric values for energy conversion are about 1/4 of what aerated breakdown needs...this in theory especially with homolactic fermentation, where most of the mass is left, could lead to more enzyme production as a increased food source for faculative yeasts, other fungi, actinomycetes and even anaerobic bacteria too...Just one theory, somewhat speculative, since it isn't entirely data driven....more just theoretical analysis of enzyme reactions...
What do you find particularly troubling about the ferment process and SST's?
Low pH, low DO?
Fermentation and Aeration of these "plant materials" also I think tend to be heavily influenced by their own epiphytic communities and this can vary significantly even with SST's I would imagine! Not said enough...something gleaned from silage studies...
Many thanks!
P-
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
Thanks! much to work with....all valid concerns too...as far as denaturing....Two things here...length of ferment and the existence of these guys and gals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dehydrogenase...
Denaturing is a kind of an ambiguous term, it does denote the change of a protein but sometimes does not result in a new formation....ok ...
so alcoholic production [methanogenesis] is usually started by anaerobes that really like NO oxygen..so yes after 6 weeks [the long estimate of Cardarrangs FSST] Co2 and Methane buildup is certainly a possibility and then alcoholic fermentation might begin under such conditions but....that needs to be monitored by an ORP meter....in an IDEAL IDEAL situation....anecdotal research is fine, but takes too damn long
It might almost be better to sprout your seeds for a few days as suggested and then pack them into an airtight vessel without any liquid other than whatever will be in the plant weight....Sans, the extra carbohydrates.... the endosperm is loaded with polysaccharides for food and in certain types of fermentation these can be dissociated into monosaccharides thru reduction and not necessarily thru enzyme or anaerobe breakdown, saving food AND more importantly Energy, for munching on the mono-sugars later......
Then after 10,20,25,50,100,125? days...take out and then slurry and apply....but then it presents the problem of: "Does Lactic acid and other weak organic acids, denature enzymes or protein structures in a similar fashion to ketones [alc. acids] ?"
This is more like silage which is proven method for increasing nutrition in animal feed thru anaerobic means....
I am really interested in comparing and contrasting and learning how to measure enzyme activity/denaturing and have taken a note...
I am trying to work on an automated ORP setup, then I would like to dig around for enzyme specific activity...any suggestions....any info where data was kept? I have been going thru MM's aka T's site again recently for the contrasting of aerobic microlife he has found...no one I know has done the Anaerobic version
Two hardcore PDF's if you or others are interested
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