DIY light mover, idea thread. With a twist.

[bicit]

So while I wait for parts to arrive and restock I've been plotting a bit more. How about a rotational based light mover? Seemed like a good idea, and would solve my dilemma about how to distribute light with fewer emitters.

I've been plotting a light for a 3'x3'x6' space. My original idea was to use a pair of lights consisting of Four vero 29's on a 24" heatsink driven at 1amp. However it would only (Ha only...) be about 46% efficient, delivering about 15.9 par w per square foot. The other idea I have for this same space is four CXB3590's driven at 700ma, on individual heatsinks. This one would be about 60% efficient and deliver about 13.3 parw/square foot. Less power, higher efficiency, however the problem with this design is getting photons to the canopy without creating hotspots. Periodic dimming along the lines of what @stardustsailor is working on crossed my mind. How about moving the light periodically?

Rotational light movers aren't a new thing, even combined with LED's.

The question now, is how to build something like this.

Well the electrical connection can be made with something called a slip ring. In this instance we would need something rated for at least 300v with at least 5 conductors. Two for the fans, Two for the LED's, one for a ground wire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_ring

Now I'm trying to figure out how to make it spin. I'm thinking the quietest and probably cheapest route would be a simple belt drive system. In order to fit the slip ring the center has to be hollow and of sufficient diameter to fit the slip ring, yet also load bearing. It'll have to support approximately 10-15lbs, almost 7lbs of just heatsink mass before factoring in wiring and framework. So maybe a goal of supporting about 30lb's would be ideal to allow a bit of room for growth?

Anyone have idea's on how to support and spin this thing? I'd like to start building one

Thank you for your time!

 

[PSUAGRO.]

If your panels are light enough you can hook them onto an oscillating fan and move them back and forth a couple inches........I did that on my first test run of the Hans panel 5 yrs ago

 

[bicit]

If your panels are light enough you can hook them onto an oscillating fan and move them back and forth a couple inches........I did that on my first test run of the Hans panel 5 yrs ago

Just zip tie it to the cage and let her rip. No need to worry about PC fans then. A nice low budget option.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Just zip tie it to the cage and let her rip. No need to worry about PC fans then. A nice low budget option.

I used the mini bungee cords they sell at home depot .......you want some slack and make sure to secure it properly on the fan so nothing gets into the blade......it works, can check the thread, it's long though

 

[Getgrowingson]

Look into servo motors for rotation maybe? You can get them with slip rings attached. Seems like a cool idea. Good penetration and if you rotate it quickly enough you could use different kelvin ratings and get pretty much as close to sun spectrum . Like the idea!

 

[Doer]

So while I wait for parts to arrive and restock I've been plotting a bit more. How about a rotational based light mover? Seemed like a good idea, and would solve my dilemma about how to distribute light with fewer emitters.

I've been plotting a light for a 3'x3'x6' space. My original idea was to use a pair of lights consisting of Four vero 29's on a 24" heatsink driven at 1amp. However it would only (Ha only...) be about 46% efficient, delivering about 15.9 par w per square foot. The other idea I have for this same space is four CXB3590's driven at 700ma, on individual heatsinks. This one would be about 60% efficient and deliver about 13.3 parw/square foot. Less power, higher efficiency, however the problem with this design is getting photons to the canopy without creating hotspots. Periodic dimming along the lines of what @stardustsailor is working on crossed my mind. How about moving the light periodically?

Rotational light movers aren't a new thing, even combined with LED's.

The question now, is how to build something like this.

Well the electrical connection can be made with something called a slip ring. In this instance we would need something rated for at least 300v with at least 5 conductors. Two for the fans, Two for the LED's, one for a ground wire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_ring

Now I'm trying to figure out how to make it spin. I'm thinking the quietest and probably cheapest route would be a simple belt drive system. In order to fit the slip ring the center has to be hollow and of sufficient diameter to fit the slip ring, yet also load bearing. It'll have to support approximately 10-15lbs, almost 7lbs of just heatsink mass before factoring in wiring and framework. So maybe a goal of supporting about 30lb's would be ideal to allow a bit of room for growth?

Anyone have idea's on how to support and spin this thing? I'd like to start building one

Thank you for your time!

I have only one thing to say.

Garage door opener.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Well first thing I would say is why? Lighter mover = more electricity = lower efficiency and more moving pars to go wrong just make a couple more lights. If you want light movement grow outdoors. I'm not trying to be a dick but I wish you guys would hear my voice and you'd see I'm not being a dick I wanna help. It doesn't make any seen too invest your time and energy on a mover it's all sales hype.

 

[the dopest]

I think 4 individual heatsinks would be the better plan. I've been considering my next grow(though this one hasn't even started) and I've been thinking two 3x3 tents on a flip flop is where it's at. I think I could get away with the four CXA3070 ADs I have running 1500ma in one tent and bump it to five if needed. Then do that for the other tent or maybe some CXBs. If you split the 3x3 area in to individual square feet, There will be one square in the center with eight squares around it, put the four cobs on the outer corners of the inside square. Spin the outside plants every time you water them if they look like they are leaning or not getting enough light on the back sides.

 

[Doer]

I think moving plants every few days is much easier than some contraption that can fail, and rain parts on the plants. Electrical slip rings? Have you looked at the efficiency?

Please ask why.

Why do we fall for it? If something sounds good, it might not be.

So, I have to put "light movers" in the myth category. We need to be Mythbusters not blind followers.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Is side-lighting now obsolete or?

 

[Doer]

Is side-lighting now obsolete or?

I was about to say, side lights.

 

[bicit]

Well first thing I would say is why? Lighter mover = more electricity = lower efficiency and more moving pars to go wrong just make a couple more lights. If you want light movement grow outdoors. I'm not trying to be a dick but I wish you guys would hear my voice and you'd see I'm not being a dick I wanna help. It doesn't make any seen too invest your time and energy on a mover it's all sales hype.

A lot of the motors I see capable of driving this draw less than twenty watts under load. Most I'm looking at now draw less than 5. Even assuming I lose 25 watts turning the motor, the system is still 55% efficient.

I think moving plants every few days is much easier than some contraption that can fail, and rain parts on the plants. Electrical slip rings? Have you looked at the efficiency?

Please ask why.

I find that statement a bit funny coming from you to be honest. We were all asking about similar topics in your thread. Especially about the water cooling, but what ever.

Why? because it may work? Moving plants in a scrog isn't a viable option.

Is side-lighting now obsolete or?

What amount of side lighting could be done with scrogged plants for less than 20watts of power.... Any other emitter or light source is going to drop the efficiency of the system more than a 20w motor. Any emitter worth being used as side lights is going to far outpace the light mover in raw material cost.

It's a DC motor that spins.... really why is everyone freaking out about parts raining down.... No worse than any other DIY build.

A worm gear drive may be a better option than a belt drive. Talking with a few alibaba reps to see who will give me the best deal.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Good point; side lighting isn't cheap.

I guess I'm still tryin to wrap my head around your proposed contraption.

So far I understand that you want your gizmo to reign light down at various angles throughout the day in order to maximize light absorption. If I'm incorrect in my assumption, Bicit, please correct me.

 

[Doer]

Dude. I answered every why, about water cooling.

But, I can't ask you why?

 

[Doer]

When I ask why, I want details, like I provide.

It sounds like a good idea, but why? What results can be shown? It is Botany not debate.

 

[bicit]

Good point; side lighting isn't cheap.

I guess I'm still tryin to wrap my head around your proposed contraption.

So far I understand that you want your gizmo to reign light down at various angles throughout the day in order to maximize light absorption. If I'm incorrect in my assumption, Bicit, please correct me.

I'll try and get an MS paint. I haven't quite got the hang of scetchup yet....

Picture the kiesel light mover posted in the OP. In your mental image remove the LED's, and power strips, and zip ties. Now add a 4" cube with a CXB3590 attached to it on the end of each pole. The driver would be mounted remotely, away from the system.

Does that clear things up a bit, or is it still muddy?

 

[bicit]

When I ask why, I want details, like I provide.

It sounds like a good idea, but why? What results can be shown? It is Botany not debate.

The purpose is to avoid over concentrating light in one spot. Which is a valid concern with a high power emitter like the CXB3590. 'Bleaching' is rather easy to achieve with these things. The objective so to speak is a relatively even amount of light delivered over time using fewer emitters. I'm also kind of extrapolating from the idea's that stardust sailor presented about periodic dimming in his v series tetras thread.

Thus far the estimated build price is about the cost of a single CXB3590+heatsink+cobholder. So it's not a substantial increase in price at the moment.

 

[AquariusPanta]

A great solution for users of high-powered COBs, who fear bleaching. I suppose you would need a periodic dimmer or some sort of light reducer in order for the contraption to make sense, as moving light bulbs around in a circle or square isn't going to rid you of the light intensity problem in a given spot but rather move the lights around (if my logic serves me rightly).

 

[Devildenis69]

I love the idea, want to look at my lights moving when I'm

don't care about effeciency, of course it's a important point in led technology, but personnaly the multiplication of light sources was way more attractive to me ... and it's what it's about here, kinda virtual light source multiplication

I'm wondering about the impact of a constantly changing spectrum with few monochromatics

 

[Doer]

If I was doing it. I would be use a garage door opener with the light on a pair of gararge door rails attached to garage door rollers.

Set up a big gear reduction so that it moves the length of the track in 12 hours then reverses.