Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Lsdpower.comhttp://aceleds.com/admin/uploads/ac-150cd1-5abz_catalogspec.pdf
few more like it with diff Vo Io
I'm trying to find something suitable for 2 x vero29. @ 1400mA .. thisbest I've found so far.
DiY LEDs - How to Power Them
- Thread starter SupraSPL
- Start date
beppe75
Well-Known Member
since i've been looking for the cxb3070 ab bin and for the driver from them the have actually...for every order superior to 63euro they offer free shiping and all included tax and duties for orders in EU. but i they don't have in stock what i'm looking for...
It may be that they just have different policies for different markets.
ReeferDance
Well-Known Member
You ever get any samples from them? Keep wandering over to their site every once and a while and admire their selection haha.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I had to change my request of samples and have been busy in normal life latley. Then now am on vacation for a few more days. It is up on my list of things to follow up with when I get back. I am getting a handful of the 150w 1.3a versions.You ever get any samples from them? Keep wandering over to their site every once and a while and admire their selection haha.
I was going to get a some to play with a few 3590 possiblities, but am not really jumping on the 3590 train, and have enough drivers for the few I have.
I did see and feel their drivers in person. They had some street lamps hooked up too and the dimming was great. Solid and well built. When I first saw them I thought they were a new blue meanwells. I know everyone is waiting on my guinea pigging this one, but I have faith.
ReeferDance
Well-Known Member
Good to hear! I am also looking into the 150w but 3+ Amps 
Wanna test out the new Vero29's when Digikey finally gets them in.
And I can't help but dream about yielding 4 Oz's under one chip, driving a new Vero29 at 4.2 Amps dissipating about 160w haha.
Really want to see if that's feasible. Certainly seems like an attainable goal!
Wanna test out the new Vero29's when Digikey finally gets them in.
And I can't help but dream about yielding 4 Oz's under one chip, driving a new Vero29 at 4.2 Amps dissipating about 160w haha.
Really want to see if that's feasible. Certainly seems like an attainable goal!
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alesh
Well-Known Member
Since I can remember. Used to be on orders over 60EUR IIRC now it's over 150EUR.
e: I can see now that it's different for every country.
UKpeanuts
Well-Known Member
Thats all well a good, but you can't order from there yet. I sent an enquiry to the email addresses a week ago but I'm still awaiting a response.
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Doesn't mean you can't order...just that they haven't responded to you yet. They responded to me.
But I get what your saying. But also don't see many other options.
zangtumtum
Well-Known Member
I have a question, I'm noticing that shooting with a camera or even with the phone's camera, some cob with certain power supplies return a stable image,
with other power supplies with the same cob and with the same camera seem actually pulsate, as if it worked pulsating or flashing very fast.
Is not blinking like hardcap it's different...
I can dimm but at any amperage does not appear a luminous flux stable through the camera...
what is the problem? but is it correct?have you ever noticed anything like that?
all power supplies are new and branded, CC with right voltages and amperage for cxa3070
with other power supplies with the same cob and with the same camera seem actually pulsate, as if it worked pulsating or flashing very fast.
Is not blinking like hardcap it's different...
I can dimm but at any amperage does not appear a luminous flux stable through the camera...
what is the problem? but is it correct?have you ever noticed anything like that?
all power supplies are new and branded, CC with right voltages and amperage for cxa3070
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Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
You're a days late and thread off...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-led-cree-cxa3070.789575/page-159
zangtumtum
Well-Known Member
thanks Greengenes707, two days that do not have much time for reading and speech exactly about that phenomenon
uzerneims
Well-Known Member
Here is video, where dude shows how Chinese LED power supplies, those who ain't CE approved, makes noise in ether, on all RF amateur freq's... It's interefering with Radio Devices too, not our health too...
Here is video, sorry, it's not in english.
ReeferDance
Well-Known Member
Just got some Ebay drivers in from China and noticed something a little annoying while I was wiring it up.
On the DC side of the driver the 'BLACK -' side has the red wire coming out of it. While the 'RED +' has the black wire coming from it. What do you guys normally follow? Driver labels or wire colors? Decided to plug it in color coordinated (Backwards from the driver label) and it seems to be working fine....what are symptoms of having them swapped?
On the DC side of the driver the 'BLACK -' side has the red wire coming out of it. While the 'RED +' has the black wire coming from it. What do you guys normally follow? Driver labels or wire colors? Decided to plug it in color coordinated (Backwards from the driver label) and it seems to be working fine....what are symptoms of having them swapped?
ReeferDance
Well-Known Member
Great! Thought something would have seemed off if they were switched.....But damn did I ever have a puzzled look on my face when I saw that. Kept looking at all my other drivers to make sure I wasn't losing it.
Sticker also says it is 1100 amps when I thought it was going to be 1500, close enough though! These are just powering some cheap Soft-white 100w COB's that I am going to test out with some seedlings/clones
Sticker also says it is 1100 amps when I thought it was going to be 1500, close enough though! These are just powering some cheap Soft-white 100w COB's that I am going to test out with some seedlings/clones
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
(...)What makes LED driver unreliable? Low quality components and low life capacitors makes them unreliable. Non-branded Chinese LED driver use regular capacitors which work for only 1000 hours at elevated temperature.
(...)
http://www.charlstonlights.com/blog/difference-between-low-high-quality-led-lights
(...)
When used in combination with LED modules, a driver's service life and failure rate are further decisive criteria.
In real-life applications, care should be taken to ensure components perfectly
match to prevent damaging the system due to the presence of an "inferior" component.
High-quality drivers provide a service life of ≥ 50,000 hours with a failure rate of 0.2% per 1,000 hours.
Low-performance devices come with a service life of 30,000 hours and failure rates of 0.5% per 1,000 hours.
(...)
https://www.vossloh-schwabe.com/uploads/tx_sbdownloader/Leitfaden_Treiber_EN.pdf
(...)
Why use PWM?
•Typically, LED specification sheets provide a particular characteristic, such as color or
efficiency (in lumens per watt), at a particular forward current. These characteristics will
vary based on the forward current. For example, the color temperature may be 3000K at
700mA of current, but only 2700K at 350mA. A PWM driver will only run the LEDs at the
rated current level or zero, preventing these characteristics from changing as the load is
dimmed. Practically, this means the same color temperature is maintained throughout the
dimming range.
•PWM based drivers can provide a very precise output level, since the LEDs are always on
at the same current level. Changing the operating current linearly, as done with CCR, may
not result in a linear change in light output.
Why use CCR?(Constant Current Reduction )
•For devices that need to be rated as UL Class 2 for dry or damp locations, there is a lower
output voltage limit for Class 2 devices that use PWM (42.4 volts for PWM frequency > 200
Hz) than those that use CCR (60 volts). Therefore, a Class 2 power supply that uses PWM
will not be able to provide as much voltage as one that uses CCR.
•By definition, PWM power supplies have to run at frequencies high enough to be
imperceptible to the human eye. The higher the frequency, the less likely someone is to
observe flicker. Frequencies below 200Hz may be observable in peripheral vision, and even
higher frequencies are required to eliminate stroboscopic effects in fast motion
environments. However, higher-frequency power supplies are generally more complex and
expensive to manufacture, especially when low light levels are desired. Other programs,
such as Energy Star, may place minimum requirements on PWM frequency.
•Because of the fast rising and falling edges of a PWM driver (faster edges allow for higher
frequencies and lower light levels), electromagnetic interference (EMI) can be generated.
This EMI may not be suitable for certain applications.
•PWM drivers, due to their fast edges, may experience performance issues if mounted
remotely from the light source. This is because the electrical characteristics (capacitance
and inductance) of the long wire runs interfere with the fast rise and fall times required for
precise light levels
(...)
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048360a_PWM_vs_CCR_LED_App_Note.pdf
(...)
5. Why is it important to use long-life LED drivers? How are they different?
There are two primary factors in the justification of most solid state lighting systems. The first is energy savings. However, there are other alternative lighting technologies that offer high efficiency for lower initial costs. The second justification, lower maintenance costs, is therefore critical. LEDs have the advantage of much longer life than most other lighting technologies. Reduced replacement and/or maintenance costs can be a very significant factor. However, if the power electronics in the system does not match the life/reliability of the LEDs then the justification of the system is in jeopardy.
The life of an LED driver is mainly determined by the lifetime of the electrolytic capacitors employed. Therefore, to achieve long life of the LED drivers, it is critical to select long-life, quality electrolytic capacitors.
Also, since the life of electrolytic capacitors drops by half for every 10°C increase in operating temperature, thermal management of these components is important. Two key factors for reducing the temperature of the capacitors are high efficiency design (dissipating less heat in the driver) and thermal design (effective conduction and/or convection of the heat into the ambient surroundings).
(...)
http://www.astrodynetdi.com/power_supplies/guides/led-drivers/faq/
Conclusion ?
Cheap LED CC drivers and high quality COB leds ,
if implemented together is more of a joke ,rather an efficient LED light fixture.
Leave cheap LED drivers to "match" with cheap ,non-branded ,low -quality LEDS.
High quality ,branded LEDS and/or LED COBs "need" drivers of the same quality class.
Spending certain amounts of money ,energy and time,in order to build a high -quality LED grow light ,
is just vain,if the "weight" is placed more at the LEDS and not at the Drivers.OR vice versa.
Same goes with every other component used,
like heat sinks ,fans, cases ,switches,sockets,EMI filters and so on.
And that is not just my humble personal opinion.
In such matters ,"personal opinions" are almost totally useless.
High-tech characteristics ,including efficiency,long service life ,etc ,claim for hard facts.
And,of course, the sufficient amounts of energy ,time & money spend.
As also obligatory are a very good to exceptional design, top-quality parts used and a high-grade of manufacturing/building practices ,all the way.
Just another 1 ¢ ....
Cheers.
(...)
http://www.charlstonlights.com/blog/difference-between-low-high-quality-led-lights
(...)
When used in combination with LED modules, a driver's service life and failure rate are further decisive criteria.
In real-life applications, care should be taken to ensure components perfectly
match to prevent damaging the system due to the presence of an "inferior" component.
High-quality drivers provide a service life of ≥ 50,000 hours with a failure rate of 0.2% per 1,000 hours.
Low-performance devices come with a service life of 30,000 hours and failure rates of 0.5% per 1,000 hours.
(...)
https://www.vossloh-schwabe.com/uploads/tx_sbdownloader/Leitfaden_Treiber_EN.pdf
(...)
Why use PWM?
•Typically, LED specification sheets provide a particular characteristic, such as color or
efficiency (in lumens per watt), at a particular forward current. These characteristics will
vary based on the forward current. For example, the color temperature may be 3000K at
700mA of current, but only 2700K at 350mA. A PWM driver will only run the LEDs at the
rated current level or zero, preventing these characteristics from changing as the load is
dimmed. Practically, this means the same color temperature is maintained throughout the
dimming range.
•PWM based drivers can provide a very precise output level, since the LEDs are always on
at the same current level. Changing the operating current linearly, as done with CCR, may
not result in a linear change in light output.
Why use CCR?(Constant Current Reduction )
•For devices that need to be rated as UL Class 2 for dry or damp locations, there is a lower
output voltage limit for Class 2 devices that use PWM (42.4 volts for PWM frequency > 200
Hz) than those that use CCR (60 volts). Therefore, a Class 2 power supply that uses PWM
will not be able to provide as much voltage as one that uses CCR.
•By definition, PWM power supplies have to run at frequencies high enough to be
imperceptible to the human eye. The higher the frequency, the less likely someone is to
observe flicker. Frequencies below 200Hz may be observable in peripheral vision, and even
higher frequencies are required to eliminate stroboscopic effects in fast motion
environments. However, higher-frequency power supplies are generally more complex and
expensive to manufacture, especially when low light levels are desired. Other programs,
such as Energy Star, may place minimum requirements on PWM frequency.
•Because of the fast rising and falling edges of a PWM driver (faster edges allow for higher
frequencies and lower light levels), electromagnetic interference (EMI) can be generated.
This EMI may not be suitable for certain applications.
•PWM drivers, due to their fast edges, may experience performance issues if mounted
remotely from the light source. This is because the electrical characteristics (capacitance
and inductance) of the long wire runs interfere with the fast rise and fall times required for
precise light levels
(...)
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048360a_PWM_vs_CCR_LED_App_Note.pdf
(...)
5. Why is it important to use long-life LED drivers? How are they different?
There are two primary factors in the justification of most solid state lighting systems. The first is energy savings. However, there are other alternative lighting technologies that offer high efficiency for lower initial costs. The second justification, lower maintenance costs, is therefore critical. LEDs have the advantage of much longer life than most other lighting technologies. Reduced replacement and/or maintenance costs can be a very significant factor. However, if the power electronics in the system does not match the life/reliability of the LEDs then the justification of the system is in jeopardy.
The life of an LED driver is mainly determined by the lifetime of the electrolytic capacitors employed. Therefore, to achieve long life of the LED drivers, it is critical to select long-life, quality electrolytic capacitors.
Also, since the life of electrolytic capacitors drops by half for every 10°C increase in operating temperature, thermal management of these components is important. Two key factors for reducing the temperature of the capacitors are high efficiency design (dissipating less heat in the driver) and thermal design (effective conduction and/or convection of the heat into the ambient surroundings).
(...)
http://www.astrodynetdi.com/power_supplies/guides/led-drivers/faq/
Conclusion ?
Cheap LED CC drivers and high quality COB leds ,
if implemented together is more of a joke ,rather an efficient LED light fixture.
Leave cheap LED drivers to "match" with cheap ,non-branded ,low -quality LEDS.
High quality ,branded LEDS and/or LED COBs "need" drivers of the same quality class.
Spending certain amounts of money ,energy and time,in order to build a high -quality LED grow light ,
is just vain,if the "weight" is placed more at the LEDS and not at the Drivers.OR vice versa.
Same goes with every other component used,
like heat sinks ,fans, cases ,switches,sockets,EMI filters and so on.
And that is not just my humble personal opinion.
In such matters ,"personal opinions" are almost totally useless.
High-tech characteristics ,including efficiency,long service life ,etc ,claim for hard facts.
And,of course, the sufficient amounts of energy ,time & money spend.
As also obligatory are a very good to exceptional design, top-quality parts used and a high-grade of manufacturing/building practices ,all the way.
Just another 1 ¢ ....
Cheers.
Last edited:
ReeferDance
Well-Known Member
I am forced to have a fan specifically to cool one of my cheaper drivers that causes the COB to flicker once it gets too hot.
I'm sure that will be the first one to go!
I'm sure that will be the first one to go!
AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
Is there a legitimate and cost-effective alternative to MeanWell drivers? I like their products and prices seem reasonable but the supply of some of their drivers aren't always readily available.(...)What makes LED driver unreliable? Low quality components and low life capacitors makes them unreliable. Non-branded Chinese LED driver use regular capacitors which work for only 1000 hours at elevated temperature.
(...)
http://www.charlstonlights.com/blog/difference-between-low-high-quality-led-lights
(...)
When used in combination with LED modules, a driver's service life and failure rate are further decisive criteria.
In real-life applications, care should be taken to ensure components perfectly
match to prevent damaging the system due to the presence of an "inferior" component.
High-quality drivers provide a service life of ≥ 50,000 hours with a failure rate of 0.2% per 1,000 hours.
Low-performance devices come with a service life of 30,000 hours and failure rates of 0.5% per 1,000 hours.
(...)
https://www.vossloh-schwabe.com/uploads/tx_sbdownloader/Leitfaden_Treiber_EN.pdf
(...)
Why use PWM?
•Typically, LED specification sheets provide a particular characteristic, such as color or
efficiency (in lumens per watt), at a particular forward current. These characteristics will
vary based on the forward current. For example, the color temperature may be 3000K at
700mA of current, but only 2700K at 350mA. A PWM driver will only run the LEDs at the
rated current level or zero, preventing these characteristics from changing as the load is
dimmed. Practically, this means the same color temperature is maintained throughout the
dimming range.
•PWM based drivers can provide a very precise output level, since the LEDs are always on
at the same current level. Changing the operating current linearly, as done with CCR, may
not result in a linear change in light output.
Why use CCR?(Constant Current Reduction )
•For devices that need to be rated as UL Class 2 for dry or damp locations, there is a lower
output voltage limit for Class 2 devices that use PWM (42.4 volts for PWM frequency > 200
Hz) than those that use CCR (60 volts). Therefore, a Class 2 power supply that uses PWM
will not be able to provide as much voltage as one that uses CCR.
•By definition, PWM power supplies have to run at frequencies high enough to be
imperceptible to the human eye. The higher the frequency, the less likely someone is to
observe flicker. Frequencies below 200Hz may be observable in peripheral vision, and even
higher frequencies are required to eliminate stroboscopic effects in fast motion
environments. However, higher-frequency power supplies are generally more complex and
expensive to manufacture, especially when low light levels are desired. Other programs,
such as Energy Star, may place minimum requirements on PWM frequency.
•Because of the fast rising and falling edges of a PWM driver (faster edges allow for higher
frequencies and lower light levels), electromagnetic interference (EMI) can be generated.
This EMI may not be suitable for certain applications.
•PWM drivers, due to their fast edges, may experience performance issues if mounted
remotely from the light source. This is because the electrical characteristics (capacitance
and inductance) of the long wire runs interfere with the fast rise and fall times required for
precise light levels
(...)
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048360a_PWM_vs_CCR_LED_App_Note.pdf
(...)
5. Why is it important to use long-life LED drivers? How are they different?
There are two primary factors in the justification of most solid state lighting systems. The first is energy savings. However, there are other alternative lighting technologies that offer high efficiency for lower initial costs. The second justification, lower maintenance costs, is therefore critical. LEDs have the advantage of much longer life than most other lighting technologies. Reduced replacement and/or maintenance costs can be a very significant factor. However, if the power electronics in the system does not match the life/reliability of the LEDs then the justification of the system is in jeopardy.
The life of an LED driver is mainly determined by the lifetime of the electrolytic capacitors employed. Therefore, to achieve long life of the LED drivers, it is critical to select long-life, quality electrolytic capacitors.
Also, since the life of electrolytic capacitors drops by half for every 10°C increase in operating temperature, thermal management of these components is important. Two key factors for reducing the temperature of the capacitors are high efficiency design (dissipating less heat in the driver) and thermal design (effective conduction and/or convection of the heat into the ambient surroundings).
(...)
http://www.astrodynetdi.com/power_supplies/guides/led-drivers/faq/
Conclusion ?
Cheap LED CC drivers and high quality COB leds ,
if implemented together is more of a joke ,rather an efficient LED light fixture.
Leave cheap LED drivers to "match" with cheap ,non-branded ,low -quality LEDS.
High quality ,branded LEDS and/or LED COBs "need" drivers of the same quality class.
Spending certain amounts of money ,energy and time,in order to build a high -quality LED grow light ,
is just vain,if the "weight" is placed more at the LEDS and not at the Drivers.OR vice versa.
Same goes with every other component used,
like heat sinks ,fans, cases ,switches,sockets,EMI filters and so on.
And that is not just my humble personal opinion.
In such matters ,"personal opinions" are almost totally useless.
High-tech characteristics ,including efficiency,long service life ,etc ,claim for hard facts.
And,of course, the sufficient amounts of energy ,time & money spend.
As also obligatory are a very good to exceptional design, top-quality parts used and a high-grade of manufacturing/building practices ,all the way.
Just another 1 ¢ ....
Cheers.
As of now, I'm under the presumption that one can either buy cheapo drivers through Ebay, directly from China, or order MW drivers through online vendors, such as Mouser.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
I have a handful of generic drivers that have been being used in the veg room since 2009, maybe 20,000 hours. They still work as good as new, no loss of efficiency etc. I also have 50 generic drivers that have been in use for 12/12 for about 4000 hours. That said, I have seen a few of these generic 30W fasttech drivers fail, somewhat annoying. Other than that, great reliability from the generics.
I have been switching over to Mean Well HLG, but not for reliability. The external dimming, PFC and 94% efficiency are very worthwhile features.
PWM dimming sacrifices LED efficiency (think current droop), bad deal for our application but luckily our Mean Well and generics use constant current dimming. I know you already know that SDS, just pointing it out for those who may not.
I do understand the point you were making before, in our AC-DC application we are not getting a true DC current. But that is not the PWM dimming I am referring to. I agree with the precision and automation opportunity of PWM and current droop will not be a problem for red LEDs.
In some cases the generics offer higher efficiency than Mean Well, especially in the popular 1.4A category. The reliability of generics in most cases is not a problem. But if we tried to use generic COBs now THAT would present a serious problem. So I disagree with your conclusion, but that is OK to each their own
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
As I've stated ,is not a matter of personal opinion.In some cases the generics offer higher efficiency than Mean Well. That is a problem in the popular 1.4A category. The reliability of generics in most cases is not a problem. But if we tried to use generic COBs now THAT would present a serious problem. So I disagree with your conclusion, but that is OK to each their own
Hard facts and " cruel " numbers .
Speaking of numbers ...
How exactly do you measure / calculate the efficiency of a constant current switching power supply ?
Like that :
power supply efficiency = output power / input power
?
Because if you do likewise ...
Well...Is not so simple as you may think it is ....
Most probably the result is way wrong ....(Too high ! )
(...)
DC power is calculated as volts times amps and can be easily measured with two multimeters. A high-resolution multimeter measures the current delivered to the load and a standard multimeter measures the power supply’s output voltage.
AC input power can’t be calculated simply as RMS input voltage times RMS input current because of the differences in phasing between the voltage and the current in an AC system, designated as ϕ and seen in figure 1. If we did this, it would yield a result that’s too high because the value would include both the power converted by the power supply (P) and the power that’s returned to the AC source (Q). (...)
Read on ,please ....
http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=268583&dfpPParams=ind_184,aid_268583&dfpLayout=article
http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an46.pdf
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5991-1117EN.pdf
Moreover,If it was a fact that generic LED drivers ,do actually offer same efficiency and service life as the more expensive ,branded drivers do ,then there's no reason for Meanwell ,Inventronics and other brands to exist ,whatsoever ...
Think about it ...
Those no-name brands then ,they could build of same quality COB LEDS.
Afterall ,almost everything (regarding COBS,LEDS & DRIVERS ) are being made in PRC,Taiwan,India,Malaysia or Hong-Kong...Branded or generic ..By the same people...
The "quality standards " though ...That's another story....
If they could offer of such quality generic drivers so cheap ,
I do not see the reason why they could not offer high quality cheap ,generic LEDS or COBs ...
Why 's that not the case ?
How come they can built high quality generic ,no-name,power supplies and are not able to build high quality cheap generic COBs ?
What's stopping them from doing so ?
Hm ?
Cheers.
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