some LED strip light info. strip types, wiring, adapters,etc. 5630-specific

[liesandlies]

(adding the info a bit at a time..)

This is kind of written at a level of near beginner to a somewhat familiar with the topic. Most of the numbers are rounded to 2 digits, and useful at the scale they're given for. This is just for general info.

disclaimer - I have no experience and very little understanding of the numbers and electrical-side... just going from documented measurements, and best guesses. also, any wiring techniques are just ideas. have fun, be safe


5630, compared to 5050 and 3528

http://heracolights.com/2014/03/10/3528-vs-5050-vs-5630-led-smd-diodes/

5630 .. 45-50 lumens per led .. 150 mA (2.8-3.4 Volts) = .42-.51 watts
5050 .. 16-22 lumens per led .. 60 mA (2.8-3.4 Volts) = .17-.26 watts
3528 .. 6-8 lumens per led .. 20-30 mA (2.8-3.4 Volts) = .05-.08 watts

The 3528 and the 5630 produce 100 lumens per watt. The 5050 produces 90 lumens per watt. The efficiency is similar. The difference is in the intensity; brightness; the amount of lumens emitted from each led.
The 5630 emits ~2.5 times as much light as the 5050, per led, from a slightly smaller surface area.


Wattage decrease over distance:

The thin copper film on the SMD strips has a lot of electrical resistance(impedance). That resistance causes the voltage to decrease, and thus the wattage decreases. The longer the distance of the strip, the more the voltage decreases, and the less watts go to the leds. So the led's at the end of a long strip will be less bright.
Some led strips or strings use wire, instead of thin copper film, and these should result in much less wattage decrease.

Some measurements (all using 12v, all from SMD strips):

A 5050 5m strip was measured
At full 5m = 30w (0.1w / led).
Cut to 1m = 10w (0.18w/led)

5 other 5050 5m strips have been measured at 35w.
A 5630 5m strip was measured at 41w.

A 5050 .5m (36led) strip was measured, and then more were connected in series (daisy-chain) and the wattage measured again. (The watts listed are for each additional strip)
1 .5m strip = 10w .. .27w per led .. (all combined = 10w = .27w / led)
2 .5m (1m) = 7w .. .19w per led .. (all combined = 17w = .24w / led)
3 (1.5m) = 5w .. .14w per led .. (all combined = 22w = .21w / led)
4 .5m 2m = 3w .. .03w per led .. (all combined = 25w = .17w / led)
5 (2.5m) = 1w .. .02w per led .. (all combined = 26w = .14w / led)

So


Different ways to Power a Strip to Reduce Voltage Drop

Strip =======
pos and neg (+) (-)

the usual way of wiring a strip is connecting a positive and a negative to one end
(+-)=======
(the voltage loss (light dimming) grows towards the far end)
Powering a 1m strip this way will supply the wattage of powering a 1m strip.

a strip can also be powered with the positive at one end and the negative at the other end
(+)========(-)
(supposed to give the same amount of power as the usual way, however the voltage loss happens in the middle, instead of at the far end)
Powering a 1m strip this way will supply the wattage of powering a 1m strip.

dual-feed, double feed is when it is connected to a positive and a negative, at both ends
(+-)========(+-)
(supposed to give the same available power as powering 2 strips separate, with the voltage loss in the middle)
Powering a 1m strip this way will supply the wattage of powering 2 .5m strips separately. (the available wattage can only be utilized up to a strips max wattage)

powered from the middle
========(+-)=======
(supposed to be equal to powering 2 strips separately)
Powering a 1m strip this way will supply the wattage of powering 2 .5m strips separately. (the available wattage can only be utilized up to a strips max wattage)


A few examples to compare..

(+-)======== ========(+-)
would make available the same wattage as
(+-)================(+-)
and the same as
========(+-)========

 

[liesandlies]

oh, there's no way to edit a post once it's made?

okay, I see the 'edit' link below.

 

[liesandlies]

and reserving one more spot

 

[bicit]

About a pound.

 

[liesandlies]

a pound of eggnog? or rain?

 

[caretak3r]

I read about this, tried it, and nothing blew up. It was suggested to me elsewhere that you can power both sides of the led strip to combat the resistance loss. It does work, I'm not sure if there is any adverse effect on the power supply long term. Also, I have started to use dimmers to dial in my desired amperage since I'm driving mine soft most of the time.

 

[liesandlies]

I read that you can also power a strip a few other ways.. to make possibilities

Power P
Strip =======
+ and - (pos and neg)

usual way is
(+-)======== (the voltage loss grows towards the end)

then the strip can also be fed the + at one end and the - at the other end
(+)========(-) (supposed to give the same amount of power as the usual way, however the voltage loss is placed in the middle)

dual-feed, double feed is
(+-)========(+-) (supposed to give the same available power as powering 2 strips separate, the highest voltage loss is in the middle)

powered from the middle
========(+-)======= (supposed to be equal to powering 2 strips separately)

a long strip, powered every 2m, should give equal brightness as a multitude of separately powered 1m strips.
=========(+-)===================(+-)========
(+-)========= (+-)========= (+-)========= (+-)========
That might be easier, or not, than cutting a long length into multiple smaller lengths.

The strips are common in 5m, and of course can be cut to any length shorter. Other pre-made lengths are 1m, and .5m, and .25m.

 

[liesandlies]

Heat (typing this in an easy way to be ready to be copy&pasted to the top posts)

For integrated led strip heatsinks:
The flexible strips have just the plastic base for a heatsink, or whatever they are adhesive-taped to.
The rigid aluminum backed strips have a layer of aluminum that looks to be about .7mm thick. Is that enough, I wonder.
Those rigid aluminum backed strips can be slid into aluminum hollow rails for additional cooling. Add some airflow to the hollow channels for additional cooling.

Several 5630 manufacturer's datasheets say 80-85*C (176-185*F) for the maximum working temperature. As for how much their light output changes with heat. One datasheet says a 90% light output at 80*C.
The needed cooling is much easier to know, going by experience with. And every situation may be quite different with the size and shape of the area, the airflow, and the types and selection and placement of the leds.

Adjusting Voltage to reduce heat or brightness
I read that adjusting the voltage to 11v, reduces most of the heat. Not needing to actively cool the leds may be worth requiring more leds (to equal the same amount light that 12v would give).
One measurement using a 5630 5m strip found that going from 12v to 11v, decreased the wattage by 35%.
To generate the 12v's wattage, would require increasing the number of leds by 55%. (at least based on that specific strip with the resistors and led chips that it had).
So if a type of led was using 1w at 12v, 100 leds at 12v would use 100 watts. At 11v, it would take 155 leds to use 100 watts.

Does this have any effect on the total temperature generated by the leds?

 

[az2000]

oh, there's no way to edit a post once it's made?

okay, I see the 'edit' link below.

It looks like you're trying to create a perpetual/growing source of information. However, you'll lose the ability to edit these posts after a few hours. Your "grow journal" is a better place to perpetually edit encyclopedic information like this. Then you just give a link to that "blog" page.

 

[liesandlies]

Thanks for that.
..This is more design oriented. After seeing some led strip grows, and wondering how small and how little lighting could provide good growth. Lumen requirements per square foot, and how to avoid the wattage drop in the strips. And the least cooling required, also. minimalism is interesting.

Lumens per Strip Distance - Flexible(soft) strips compared to Hard(rigid) strips

Flexible(soft) strips, the type that come on reels or coiled up, have 60 leds per meter. Each 3-led section is 5cm long.

Some strips are labelled 'hard', 'firm', or 'rigid', and these have an aluminum backing, about .8mm thick (about the same height as a 5630 chip). Supposedly the strip can be bent to some degree and still function. It can also be shortened, as with the soft strips, by cutting between any 3-led section.
The hard strips are often available as groups of 10, connected to each other side by side.. and each strip can be separated from the group. Or they are found as a light bar, slid into an aluminum rail/runner/shell/heatsink.
These hard strips come in .25m, .5m, and 1m lengths,.. and have 72 leds per meter. The 3 led sections are shorter (4.2cm). (and a little wider)

So far, the greatest lumen per distance strips, would be from a hard strip.
25cm (.25m) hard strip = 18 leds
50cm (.5m) hard strip = 36 leds
1m hard strip = 72 leds
;all have 72 leds per meter

Any flexible strips have = 60 leds per meter

So a hard strip has 20% more leds per length than a flexible strip. That allows 20% more lumens.

Comparing the soft and hard strips (using a .5m as the desired length, to minimize wattage drop):

a .5m hard strip has 36 leds, (at .28w per led) = 10 watts; 10 watts per .5m
(.28w used so the total would equal an easy-to-compare 10w)

a .5m soft strip has 30 leds, (at .28w per led) = 8.4 watts; 8.4watts per .5m

...To get the most lumens, use 5630 strips (as opposed to 5050 or 3528 led strips) (2.5 times the lumens as a 5050. And 7 times the lumens of a 3528 )
...To get the most lumens per length of strip, use hard strips. (20% more leds and 20% more lumens)
...To retain the lumens (watts) with distance, keep runs to .5m or shorter, or use alternative wiring methods to provide the available wattage of shorter .5m runs. (each additional .5m of length decreases wattage by 30%+ compared to the wattage of the .5m length that was before it)

 

[liesandlies]

a few things corrected in the last post, the 72led/m or 60led/m is not about strip length... it's about hard strip (72led/m) or soft strip (60led/m).

 

[Randomblame]

Hey liesandlies!

I'm using smd5630 stripes for the mothers in my stealthbox.
I've added they simply on a thin alu sheet(1mm) in 0,5m parts, than wired them together to 10 strings of 1m and put them in parallel on a 12v/120w/10A driver.
I'm using a coolwhite stripe with 450 led's and a warmwhite stripe with 300 led's.
There is no fan on the backsite and the temps goes only up to 45°C in a 18/6h setup.
At a distance of min. 20cm, 8inch. it delivers Ø 25.000lux!
The power consumption is Ø 107w, but I get the double amount of light as from my old 120w CFL, plus the advantage of the deeper penetration.
So far my mothers loves this light, but you need a minimum distance of 15-20cm or you will get bleechings on the leaves.

I've not added some blue or red stripes, but if someone will try to use it for flowering some red's will help to increase the red side of the spectrum. I'm really sure it will work also for flowering if you use enough led's.

Another thing is the real output of the stripes!
It is really difficult to get the real power of each 5630 led, because of the power loss inside the stripes. The most chinese stripes are rated with 60 or 72w what means one of the led's will run at 0,16-0,2w or 50mA.
Smd5630 delivers 120-130lm/w @ 50mA(0,2w, 5-6 led's needed for 1 watt, each 20-30lm) and 100lm/w @ 150mA(0,5w, 2 led's needed for 1w, each 50lm)!
The best way to use this typ of stripes is to use only parts of 0,5 or 1m. The longer the stripes the more powerloss is into it! The best results you will get with 0,5m parts added in parallel!!!

 

[go banana]

Really glad you started this, liesandlies. So little technical and practical info out there.

There are many poor and failed experiments due to "power loss" and lack of understanding/ overestimating. No wonder people give up and say they don't work. However if you do the math, these strips in the right density combined with foliage surface area (scrog) can and obviously grow flowers. Cant compare these to point source lighting like the CREE and Bridglux cobs. Super efficiency is not my goal... simplicity/cost/coverage is.

Randomblame, thanks for sharing your successful experiences with these strips. This is exactly what I wanted to see out there. Not just coiling 5m of leds around a little plant, hoping for the best and cheapest.

The 5630 (even some old 5050 setups) strips are all super popular among the REEF aquarium crowds. Good light penetration and growing corals successfully.


Anyways, glad that i'm not alone in the dark here. I am building a large 5630 array, similar to Randomblame, using a combination of strips to replace my CFL setup that has had amazing results for me over many years. I have done my own undocumented led-ufo vs cfl experiments that blew me away. People used to say CFL couldn't grow shit...


Now, consistency of these strips from one vendor to another, thats a whole other thing.

GB

 

[bicit]

I've been interested in SMD chips. I thought they would work well in low hanging height situation and side or accessory lighting. However I have a few issues with them.

1: The most efficient SMD strip I've been able to find is about the same as a decent T5. Cost is about the same.
2: Build quality sucks on most. I've been reading that rapid degradation of the light output is a common problem in cheap strips.
3: Lack of data sheets makes educated buying rather convoluted.

That being said, I think they have potential. I'm interested in seeing where this thread goes.

 

[Randomblame]

Yep! The quality is the biggest problem.
I think it is better to use the hard-stripes, because of the better cooling and other reasons.
10 of this 6w, 0,5m stripes costs 9$, while the most flexible stripes costs Ø 12$/5m.
Flex-stripes have only 60 led's per 1m the hardstripes offers 72 pcs/1m.
I’m building a small passive 200w in the next time for my brother to cover a 2x2ft area. I've ordered an alu-plate with 40x 50cm and 3mm thickness, 5m coolwhite hardstripe, 10m warmwhite and 5m softstripe in red 620-640nm and also 2 120w power supplies. That's under 100$ for roundabout 200-220w from a passive light with max. 50-60°C and perfect light distribution over a 2x2 footstep.
My brother has little time, so the passive construction. In addition, he would use only 12 NL-clones with a Blumat drip system(not the cone)with 12/12h settings from beginning to the end.
It goes certainly better, but he is a lazy dog, Lol!
One must not underestimate the small 5630, because if they are well cooled, they provide fairly good efficiency for the price they costs and to add 25% red will help to get a high cri and a really good over-all spectrum!
I am confident he will get useful results. Maybe 0,5-0,7g / w or a bit more?

 

[go banana]

If it doesn't grow, worst case I'll have a very cool $25 shop light.

Looks like we have something similar in mind. (20"x28" for 2.5'x2.5')

 

[plimsoul]

I'm really grateful for this thread too. I'm looking into cheap LED solutions and strip lights seem by far to be the simplest. The alternative seems to be wiring up 3W LEDs with star heat sink bases. Where I am hitting a wall is finding the right power supply... with the amount of strip lights I'd be using it will have to be a bit of a beast!

 

[caretak3r]

I'm really grateful for this thread too. I'm looking into cheap LED solutions and strip lights seem by far to be the simplest. The alternative seems to be wiring up 3W LEDs with star heat sink bases. Where I am hitting a wall is finding the right power supply... with the amount of strip lights I'd be using it will have to be a bit of a beast!

computer power supplies are a decent solution for you - lots of power and cheap for 12v source for strip lighting

 

[az2000]

computer power supplies are a decent solution for you - lots of power and cheap for 12v source for strip lighting

Do those allow voltage adjustment? I noticed Meanwell power supplies let you adjust from 11 to 13v. That might be useful to reduce heat. I think someone posted that they work better at 11v.(?).

 

[plimsoul]

Thanks for the suggestions - I don't want to take over this info thread with my questions, but I would like to know whether computer power supplies allow voltage adjustment etc. If you've got any more information can I suggest we continue the discussion on the thread I started "Powering LED strip lights or alternative?" - perhaps liesandlies can then include the best bits here later on.