THCbreeder
Well-Known Member
I've looked at the female seeds pure AK . How was the high and obviously it was stanky !
Top 10 strains in the US in 2014
- Thread starter Sativied
- Start date
Mr.Head
Well-Known Member
I thought it was Meh after about a week of smoking on it, I gave a couple ounces to a buddy and he really liked it and so did his friends. For me it was a good day time smoke the tolerance build up was really quick on it. If you got other stuff to smoke it might be ok.
Just wasn't for me, I am sure others will enjoy the strain. My buddy still asks me to grow more all the time lol.
THCbreeder
Well-Known Member
Sweet well I might just order regular seeds from serious and get the real deal .
BDOGKush
Well-Known Member
It's a list from LeaflyI'm still trying to figure out who made this list and what decided this and how is it official?
http://www.leafly.com/news/strains/leaflys-top-10-cannabis-strains-of-2014
rory420420
Well-Known Member
How made dienda?
homebrewer
Well-Known Member
I love the butt-hurt ad libbed comments about each strain in the first post.
greenghost420
Well-Known Member
im digging the glue. but i might like cookies more. ill be testing each out for some time. did dogbud come from dutchland too?
I'm pretty sure this isn't an official list. Just some dudes opinions on how the United states is way inferior to the rest of the world obv lol.
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
Just yesterday, I had a qp of AK in a jar with the lid open to vent. A co worker who was in the other room, says, You got some open AK in there?
So yeah, My Ak stinks like,well AK
and out of every strain I grow, I prefer to smoke OG as my daily smoke. No tolerance build up,never gets boring. So merica has that.
So yeah, My Ak stinks like,well AK
and out of every strain I grow, I prefer to smoke OG as my daily smoke. No tolerance build up,never gets boring. So merica has that.
thenotsoesoteric
Well-Known Member
I dig Sativie's grow methods and his take on breeding but how can anyone not like the United States? We're just so humble and likable that it just doesn't make sense. I mean it ain't like Americans would fight somebody over the opinions or oil.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Where did I show dislike for the US? What the butthurt nationalists failed to get in this thread is that it is what we call a cookie of your own dough like the others threads in this series. People bitching about sensi and dutch breeders while many factually grow and smoke pollen chucks based on bag seeds x pollen chucks of the products from those dutch breeders.I dig Sativie's grow methods and his take on breeding but how can anyone not like the United States? We're just so humble and likable that it just doesn't make sense. I mean it ain't like Americans would fight somebody over the opinions or oil.
There's not a dutch breeder who will deny the origin of the classics (afghan, NL, skunk, haze, california orange, early pearl etc), contrary to many of the "elites" and chucks from the US where the creator rather doesn't admit it's straight out of amsterdam, and not even always those classics but building on the love and work others have put in it for years.
just noticed your nonsense... which is really why I'm bumping this, as you are so blatantly wrong.
- Nevil did not bring haze to europe, Sam the Skunkman did, and was the only one. The rest are all bullshitters trying to cash in (too) on supposedly having seeds from the haze bros.
- Sensi never created an SSH (mns and ghs did)
- http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Blue_Dream/Humboldt_Seed_Organisation/
You may be easily fooled by hype but for others it's not that hard for others to see the skunk...
Bred in your town.., what a silly attempt to gain credibility by association... If that would logically make sense I would clearly win.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Serious Seeds doesn't really give lineage of any of their varieties, instead using vague regional descriptions.
Most think for example AK47 is just a reworked haze/NL/Skunk but according to Simon he bred it from Land Races.
Most think for example AK47 is just a reworked haze/NL/Skunk but according to Simon he bred it from Land Races.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Likely bullshit. Good example of how it should not be done. It wasn't necessary either, AK47 was a successful hybrid for years and produced monster yields.
There are more examples of what you are saying, the seed industry in Amsterdam is overall a major mess and only got worse. Many of the breeders and seed banks that popped up after the first 5 (who were already largely growing from the same stock from the US but also several other regions) bought their seeds at one of those first.
Especially when it involves haze one has to activate the bullshit detector. Once upon a time... the most respectable thing to do when creating a haze hybrid was to use O Haze. Not really but that was the general idea. With its long sativa flower time, poor yield, and often harsh and birdshit taste, there were not a lot of takers. It was a lot easier to use silver haze or nl#5/haze, which both had a very positive influence on the number of haze hybrids. To be cool and original and pretend it's not from a few packs of sensi or mns seeds, it's not uncommon for some breeders, worldwide, to pretend (lie) they used O haze.
DNA Cannalope haze for example, blue dream, and probably some of the well known haze/nl/skunk hybrids too. Another example is Amnesia White from white label (where sensi takes back sort of speak), according to sensi it's (haze x afghani) x thai, a sort of remake of amnesia but likely (amnesia cut x afghan) x thai. Which could mean it's (ssh x Afghan) x thai. Thai is a major contributor to o haze. Afghan is major contributor to skunk. Makes sense but is now missing a portion of the lineage. Solve the lineage to the classics and things become a lot more clear. It's essential for breeding, not so much for chucking.
However, that is not what I said, I said they would never deny the origin of the classics. It was clearly listed in the early catalogues from nevil and cc and sssc. When you grew up with those you're less easily fooled by another skunk/haze/nl/afghan cross. That credit goes to a few individuals from the US, and unfortunately says very very little about breeders in the US today, or about the USA. People who's work I'm probably a lot more aware of and grateful for than those who give credit to nevil for haze and many others so clueless about what they are actually smoking.
Pre-skunk there was already a huge trade in hash and no shortage in people getting seeds from for example kush and other afghanicas. Youngsters going backpacking in india and thailand have been bringing back sativas for decades. Dutch breeders (with travel logs and old pics) and not just the commercial ones, went "strain hunting" long before Arjan did. How often if any have the haters left the country, besides going to Amsterdam to buy seeds...
Some clown mentioned dutch breeders would only have land races to work with, clearly not realizing the value of those, and probably never smoked or grown o haze or a pure kush... The real irony is that without the early dutch seedbanks shipping worldwide, changing the world with it, american breeders would have had to rely a lot more on land races and bag seed would have had very limited access to the varieties originating from the US. How about a thank you.... for those hash farmers selecting your nasty afghani kush for years
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Indeed, so let's hear it for Pakistan and Afghanistan. 
Ironically, there are shops in NL, an increasing amount, especially in tourist areas, where OG Kush crosses are listed at higher prices on the menu than amnesia and other far superior varieties. That is some really fucked up shit for people who like me have seen the sleepy afghani/kush/NL crosses drop down the menu for decades till they became the cheap shit many shops stopped offering. Add "OG" (and nothing else of value or originality) and suddenly the value of the earthy-fungus og kush varieties doubled.
Essentially they adapt to the sudden huge increase of the market in the US. All ethics are overboard and just as in the US many resorted to chucking hyped elites not really knowing the source. We got over the "white strains" and thinking more frosty plants result in better bud years ago, but in NL the new generation of growers and smokers are just as uneducated and mislead by hype.
The future looks even worse, a Wrong Turn meets Idicocracy kind of bad.
I compared the taste of og kush to hop in beer earlier today in a dutch forum, if people weren't so used to it as a defining taste, we wouldn't be using it anymore, as it's a quite disgusting acquired taste very few first timers would prefer given a decent choice.
Chuck your own crosses based on some originals or closer to the originals than someone's polyhybrid bag seed and the abuse of the word "elite" will become obvious fast.
Ironically, there are shops in NL, an increasing amount, especially in tourist areas, where OG Kush crosses are listed at higher prices on the menu than amnesia and other far superior varieties. That is some really fucked up shit for people who like me have seen the sleepy afghani/kush/NL crosses drop down the menu for decades till they became the cheap shit many shops stopped offering. Add "OG" (and nothing else of value or originality) and suddenly the value of the earthy-fungus og kush varieties doubled.
Essentially they adapt to the sudden huge increase of the market in the US. All ethics are overboard and just as in the US many resorted to chucking hyped elites not really knowing the source. We got over the "white strains" and thinking more frosty plants result in better bud years ago, but in NL the new generation of growers and smokers are just as uneducated and mislead by hype.
The future looks even worse, a Wrong Turn meets Idicocracy kind of bad.
I compared the taste of og kush to hop in beer earlier today in a dutch forum, if people weren't so used to it as a defining taste, we wouldn't be using it anymore, as it's a quite disgusting acquired taste very few first timers would prefer given a decent choice.
Chuck your own crosses based on some originals or closer to the originals than someone's polyhybrid bag seed and the abuse of the word "elite" will become obvious fast.
Ace Yonder
Well-Known Member
http://hightimes.com/read/haze-craze. Not that High Times is the BBC, but it's certainly more credible than Seedfinder, which is a meaningless reference anyways because HSO didn't create blue dream, they created a recreation for seeds since the original is, and always has been, clone only. https://potguide.com/strain-profiles/blue-dream/ http://www.cannabissearch.com/strains/blue-dream/ etc.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
This may seem like a long post but at the end you get to bone the princess.
HT is more credible than seedfinder....? Quite ridiculous really considering their purpose and goals alone already. The latter will also change it upon request (though not in this case for for them too obvious reasons), the former is well... It's hightimes, where Nevil placed the first seed bank ad 31 years ago lol and you got the balls to pretend that is a credible source?
Wait wait... You linked to an article written by Danko about the origin of haze...
Besides the main players you couldn't have picked a more biased source if you tried.
https://www.instagram.com/p/-Pwif-BkBD/
Need I say more? And point out who his buddy is? Believing danny danko on this matter is like asking a priest about the origin of planet earth.
There is really zero debate over who introduced o haze to NL, not by Danko, not by Neville, not by Sam. Never has been, never will be. Trying to prove your false claim wrong by cherry picking articles - that don't even support your claim - won't change history. It's not that long ago for some...
Neville nor anyone slightly in the know will claim it was Neville who introduced haze to NL, it's a wellknown fact that was Sam. You are picking sides without even knowing the argument. As Danko also clearly states, it was Sam who brought haze to NL in 1984.
That "1980s" when Neville supposedly went to NY is not an exact year for a reason. What neville did claim many years later is that he went to NY and got more original Original haze from some grower, and that he isn't using the haze Sam brought over. Ever wondered why Original Haze is called Original Haze (30+ years ago already).
If you take a look at the old catalogues it's very easy to see who had the o haze, and who got it from who, and when Neville started releasing O haze hybrids (a few years later). Again, really no debate there.
I've been hearing and reading stories and articles, and discussions of the people involved, about the origin of haze for many years. As I've said before, they all hide parts (well, except wernard bruining from positronics perhaps), and I wasn't there either, but an effective bullshit detector combined with a good memory shows discrepancies mostly in claims from those pretending to have more original originals. It's very hard to keep a lie consistent for years, decades even.
Sam posted on icmag on 25th February 2008:
“It is absurd that Neville said he got 1969 O Haze seeds from the Haze Bros.
#1 Neville first traveled to USA in 86 or 87 at the earliest, the main Haze Brother, R was gone, retired in Mexico by 82 he did not come back for 10 years. He was the one that created O Haze. The second Haze Brother J quit growing O Haze about 1980 and only grew Skunk #1 after that, until he became a reborn christian, then he quit growing, and anyway recently he told me he never met Neville and he certainly did not sell any Haze seeds to him or anyone else ever. [This is why its 1980s in Danko's article]
#2 The Haze Bros had a falling out in the late 70's and stopped talking to one another, for certain they did not sell seeds as the Haze Bros to anyone, it is ridiculous as well as impossible.
Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word? I can not say, but I know Neville did not meet the Haze Bros and did not get any O Haze seeds from them. Both the Haze Bros were close friends of mine and both were close neighbors for years, J lived a few hundred meters from my house until he departed to Mexico.”
Pretty much all the alternative stories about the origin of haze are written by haters, and Sam has a few of those, and not just as a person, but pretending people have originals that don't come from Sam became a marketing tool by itself. That later was taken furher to Sensi vs positronics and others, now MNS for example. Still going on today.
Let me tell put that story in a historical context. Already in 1972 Wernard Bruining opened the first coffeeshop, Mellow Yellow. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellow_Yellow_coffeeshop
He once said in an interview (old dutch radio recording still online) they basically just got together to get high and figured they could sell thea and coffee to make some money while getting high. Hence the term coffeeshop. The shop sold coffee, they sold the stuff from a fannybag. The import hash was great, the import bud was pretty bad. The poor climate didn't make it easy to grow sativas, and the afghanis and indicas were often better in hash form. No indoor growing back then, till Wernard opened the first growshop, Positronics and much later introduced hps growing in homes.
Early 1984/85 it was Wernard and Old Ed (http://olded.nl/olded.html from Oregon, the first American to bring over seeds, highly respected for his contribution, while most here probably never heard about him...) and a few others who formed the Green Team and invited Sam the Skunkman over to NL as a grow consultant, together with Ed Rosenthal. They sent them the tickets to come over (already selling hundreds of kilos per year). Wernard said he went with Sam because Sam was boosting about his great Skunk. Ed Rosenthal for his grow bible.
See pics pre and after introduction of skunk here: http://olded.nl/Old Ed geschiedenis.html
Skunk still does now what it did then, increase the calyx to leaf ratio dramatically. If you walk through Amsterdam today you will smell haze, back then it was skunk, living up to its name.
The claims against Sam (about ratting out people to the dea) from some bloggers for example scream butthurt. I don't know about that, but what I do know is that his arrival changed a lot. I also know he doesn't like Nothern Light, which did come from Neville. According to Sam Neville practically begged Sam for a haze, which he got on the condition he wouldn't cross it with skunk. Which he did. Sam now claims he gave his crappiest haze clone to Neville... Funny but doubt it.
Wernard stopped with positronics because of the scene becoming more about growing money than plants. Old Ed went back home. Some notorious amsterdam gangsters got heavily involved, laundering money supposedly. After a few years there were several seed banks with, if anything, Ben Dronkers being the best businessman and becoming the most succesful. He bought Neville's bank, and later Flying Dutchmen (started by Eddie who had Cultivator's Choice seeds together with Sam before that, and to who Sam sold his O Haze stock, according to Sam...). Sure Nevil deserves credit too, but it is Sensi seeds and its green rush success that others have been trying to replicate since, some with more success than others, but rarely involves different genetics.
Several of the well known folks worked at sensi at some point, including Neville, where he for example created NL#5/Haze, the basis of Shantibaba's SSH.
You know where Neville worked too? GHS. He left sensi, joined ghs (Arjan and Shanti), later Shanti went to work with Mr Nice (Howard Marks) and started MNS. After some jail time and losing his plants during a raid (according to some...) he joined MNS as a breeding consultant and they have been offering more original classics since. They have good stuff and possibly are better breeders than sensi, but it is from the same old stock Sam brought over.
They are sensi wannabees. As should be obvious by now, the claim to have more original originals has been going on for a while and involves a millions dollars business. Neville is more a mascotte than a breeder. It's also well known neville had only three haze plants, kind of silly to think that's the best in the o haze pool.
The most recent example of the value of more original originals is Old Timer's Haze, a more original original haze from the uk available at Ace. Could be great for all I know, will see that later this year.
Some old catalogues I referred to earlier:
https://www.420magazine.com/forums/plant-and-bud-photos/76234-super-sativa-seed-club-sssc-catalogues-1980s-rare-archival-images.html
According to the sssc catalogue in the thread I linked to above NL#1 did not have that "nasty and acrid taste like some afghans".
While all interesting imo, the green one (below) is a good example. From CC, which was Sam and later Eddie, the latter started Flying Dutchmen (has the original original haze lol), who later sold to Sensi.
These and their offspring made their way into a ton of crosses. No northern light on this list, supposedly came here through nevil, from some Indian on an island. Was afghan, depending on the number backcrossed to afghan and nothing but a frosty afghan...
Notice the date, notice number 10.
HT is more credible than seedfinder....? Quite ridiculous really considering their purpose and goals alone already. The latter will also change it upon request (though not in this case for for them too obvious reasons), the former is well... It's hightimes, where Nevil placed the first seed bank ad 31 years ago lol and you got the balls to pretend that is a credible source?
Wait wait... You linked to an article written by Danko about the origin of haze...
Besides the main players you couldn't have picked a more biased source if you tried.
https://www.instagram.com/p/-Pwif-BkBD/
Need I say more? And point out who his buddy is? Believing danny danko on this matter is like asking a priest about the origin of planet earth.
There is really zero debate over who introduced o haze to NL, not by Danko, not by Neville, not by Sam. Never has been, never will be. Trying to prove your false claim wrong by cherry picking articles - that don't even support your claim - won't change history. It's not that long ago for some...
Neville nor anyone slightly in the know will claim it was Neville who introduced haze to NL, it's a wellknown fact that was Sam. You are picking sides without even knowing the argument. As Danko also clearly states, it was Sam who brought haze to NL in 1984.
That "1980s" when Neville supposedly went to NY is not an exact year for a reason. What neville did claim many years later is that he went to NY and got more original Original haze from some grower, and that he isn't using the haze Sam brought over. Ever wondered why Original Haze is called Original Haze (30+ years ago already).
If you take a look at the old catalogues it's very easy to see who had the o haze, and who got it from who, and when Neville started releasing O haze hybrids (a few years later). Again, really no debate there.
I've been hearing and reading stories and articles, and discussions of the people involved, about the origin of haze for many years. As I've said before, they all hide parts (well, except wernard bruining from positronics perhaps), and I wasn't there either, but an effective bullshit detector combined with a good memory shows discrepancies mostly in claims from those pretending to have more original originals. It's very hard to keep a lie consistent for years, decades even.
Sam posted on icmag on 25th February 2008:
“It is absurd that Neville said he got 1969 O Haze seeds from the Haze Bros.
#1 Neville first traveled to USA in 86 or 87 at the earliest, the main Haze Brother, R was gone, retired in Mexico by 82 he did not come back for 10 years. He was the one that created O Haze. The second Haze Brother J quit growing O Haze about 1980 and only grew Skunk #1 after that, until he became a reborn christian, then he quit growing, and anyway recently he told me he never met Neville and he certainly did not sell any Haze seeds to him or anyone else ever. [This is why its 1980s in Danko's article]
#2 The Haze Bros had a falling out in the late 70's and stopped talking to one another, for certain they did not sell seeds as the Haze Bros to anyone, it is ridiculous as well as impossible.
Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word? I can not say, but I know Neville did not meet the Haze Bros and did not get any O Haze seeds from them. Both the Haze Bros were close friends of mine and both were close neighbors for years, J lived a few hundred meters from my house until he departed to Mexico.”
Pretty much all the alternative stories about the origin of haze are written by haters, and Sam has a few of those, and not just as a person, but pretending people have originals that don't come from Sam became a marketing tool by itself. That later was taken furher to Sensi vs positronics and others, now MNS for example. Still going on today.
Let me tell put that story in a historical context. Already in 1972 Wernard Bruining opened the first coffeeshop, Mellow Yellow. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellow_Yellow_coffeeshop
He once said in an interview (old dutch radio recording still online) they basically just got together to get high and figured they could sell thea and coffee to make some money while getting high. Hence the term coffeeshop. The shop sold coffee, they sold the stuff from a fannybag. The import hash was great, the import bud was pretty bad. The poor climate didn't make it easy to grow sativas, and the afghanis and indicas were often better in hash form. No indoor growing back then, till Wernard opened the first growshop, Positronics and much later introduced hps growing in homes.
Early 1984/85 it was Wernard and Old Ed (http://olded.nl/olded.html from Oregon, the first American to bring over seeds, highly respected for his contribution, while most here probably never heard about him...) and a few others who formed the Green Team and invited Sam the Skunkman over to NL as a grow consultant, together with Ed Rosenthal. They sent them the tickets to come over (already selling hundreds of kilos per year). Wernard said he went with Sam because Sam was boosting about his great Skunk. Ed Rosenthal for his grow bible.
See pics pre and after introduction of skunk here: http://olded.nl/Old Ed geschiedenis.html
Skunk still does now what it did then, increase the calyx to leaf ratio dramatically. If you walk through Amsterdam today you will smell haze, back then it was skunk, living up to its name.
The claims against Sam (about ratting out people to the dea) from some bloggers for example scream butthurt. I don't know about that, but what I do know is that his arrival changed a lot. I also know he doesn't like Nothern Light, which did come from Neville. According to Sam Neville practically begged Sam for a haze, which he got on the condition he wouldn't cross it with skunk. Which he did. Sam now claims he gave his crappiest haze clone to Neville... Funny but doubt it.
Wernard stopped with positronics because of the scene becoming more about growing money than plants. Old Ed went back home. Some notorious amsterdam gangsters got heavily involved, laundering money supposedly. After a few years there were several seed banks with, if anything, Ben Dronkers being the best businessman and becoming the most succesful. He bought Neville's bank, and later Flying Dutchmen (started by Eddie who had Cultivator's Choice seeds together with Sam before that, and to who Sam sold his O Haze stock, according to Sam...). Sure Nevil deserves credit too, but it is Sensi seeds and its green rush success that others have been trying to replicate since, some with more success than others, but rarely involves different genetics.
Several of the well known folks worked at sensi at some point, including Neville, where he for example created NL#5/Haze, the basis of Shantibaba's SSH.
You know where Neville worked too? GHS. He left sensi, joined ghs (Arjan and Shanti), later Shanti went to work with Mr Nice (Howard Marks) and started MNS. After some jail time and losing his plants during a raid (according to some...) he joined MNS as a breeding consultant and they have been offering more original classics since. They have good stuff and possibly are better breeders than sensi, but it is from the same old stock Sam brought over.
They are sensi wannabees. As should be obvious by now, the claim to have more original originals has been going on for a while and involves a millions dollars business. Neville is more a mascotte than a breeder. It's also well known neville had only three haze plants, kind of silly to think that's the best in the o haze pool.
The most recent example of the value of more original originals is Old Timer's Haze, a more original original haze from the uk available at Ace. Could be great for all I know, will see that later this year.
Some old catalogues I referred to earlier:
https://www.420magazine.com/forums/plant-and-bud-photos/76234-super-sativa-seed-club-sssc-catalogues-1980s-rare-archival-images.html
According to the sssc catalogue in the thread I linked to above NL#1 did not have that "nasty and acrid taste like some afghans".
While all interesting imo, the green one (below) is a good example. From CC, which was Sam and later Eddie, the latter started Flying Dutchmen (has the original original haze lol), who later sold to Sensi.
These and their offspring made their way into a ton of crosses. No northern light on this list, supposedly came here through nevil, from some Indian on an island. Was afghan, depending on the number backcrossed to afghan and nothing but a frosty afghan...
Notice the date, notice number 10.
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