Fungus Gnat
Well-Known Member
That's why it wasn't banned but now people have been making their own AR-15 pistols. Which is why there is a rule change.
Obama banning AR15 ammo by command of the emperor!
- Thread starter desert dude
- Start date
see4
Well-Known Member
You obviously have never been questioned about a firearm you purchased. If you think NO government agency has ANY record of your firearm purchases, you are really dumb dumb. Very badly a dumb dumb. So terribly a very dumb dumb.
I've already proved you wrong almost immediately on several points.
You just pointed out that I was 100% correct. Thanks.
A can is just a can, it looks like a suppressor, but isn't one. Sorry you didn't know that.
Why do you have a can on a .22LR anyway? Don't you have a real 1911 in .45? I have several.
No government agency has any records of my gun purchases.
You have only proved me correct and yourself as wrong.
Sorry you can't take that.
Poor little guy (pats head), you might be right someday, but today is not that day.
see4
Well-Known Member
Ok, I see you technical point NoDrama. But here is what goes on.
An FFL, dealer, purchases a bunch of firearms for resale. That FFL must keep exact accurate records of all the firearms they purchase in a single location. When the FFL dealer sells one of their firearms, they log all the buyer's information in this single point of record keeping. Every year, the BATF audits FFLs, especially ones that do a fair amount of business. The BATF copies all the records and has 24x7 immediate access to them whenever they feel.
So yes, technically there is no vault in Washington DC that holds all the records of all the firearms ever purchased. But the BATF has 24x7 immediate access to that information when they need or want.
Let me give you a for instance.
Say, that, you, NoDrama, purchase a firearm in Toledo, Ohio. Then you take said firearm to Boise, Idaho and shoot someone in the face with it, killing them immediately. You then drop said gun in a river. And you disappear to Costa Rica. Now; 2 weeks later some local cops in Boise find your gun in the river which still has the serial number on it. What do you think they do? Please have the right answer for me. Ok little buddy?
An FFL, dealer, purchases a bunch of firearms for resale. That FFL must keep exact accurate records of all the firearms they purchase in a single location. When the FFL dealer sells one of their firearms, they log all the buyer's information in this single point of record keeping. Every year, the BATF audits FFLs, especially ones that do a fair amount of business. The BATF copies all the records and has 24x7 immediate access to them whenever they feel.
So yes, technically there is no vault in Washington DC that holds all the records of all the firearms ever purchased. But the BATF has 24x7 immediate access to that information when they need or want.
Let me give you a for instance.
Say, that, you, NoDrama, purchase a firearm in Toledo, Ohio. Then you take said firearm to Boise, Idaho and shoot someone in the face with it, killing them immediately. You then drop said gun in a river. And you disappear to Costa Rica. Now; 2 weeks later some local cops in Boise find your gun in the river which still has the serial number on it. What do you think they do? Please have the right answer for me. Ok little buddy?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Does the Cop need a fishing license?
Unless that gun was already entered into the system because of a multiple sale/traced etc.
There is no way for the BATF to figure out who that pistol belongs to. It could ask for every 4473 form ever produced, but they will have to get the information from the FFL first. That will take years and years.
Do some reading:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/gun-crime-tracing-weapons-difficult_n_2572908.html
To trace a gun, the search starts with police sending all the information they have about the gun – including the manufacturer and model – to an office worker in a low-slung brick building just off the Appalachian Trial in rural West Virginia, about 90 miles northwest of Washington.
ATF officials first call the manufacturer, who reveals which wholesaler the company used. That may lead to a call to a second distributor before investigators can pinpoint the retail gun dealer who first sold the weapon. Gun dealers are required to keep a copy of federal forms that detail who buys what gun and a log for guns sold. They are required to share that information with the ATF if a gun turns up at a crime scene and authorities want it traced. Often, gun shops fax the paperwork to the ATF.
That's where the paper trail ends.
In about 30 percent of cases, one or all of those folks have gone out of business and ATF tracers are left to sort through potentially thousands of out-of-business records forwarded to the ATF and stored at the office building that more closely resembles a remote call center than a law enforcement operation.
The records are stored as digital pictures that can only be searched one image at a time. Two shifts of contractors spend their days taking staples out of papers, sorting through thousands of pages and scanning or taking pictures of the records.
"Those records come in all different shapes and forms. We have to digitally image them, we literally take a picture of it," Houser said. "We have had rolls of toilet paper or paper towels ... because they (dealers) did not like the requirement to keep records."
The tracing center receives about a million out-of-business records every month and Houser runs the center's sorting and imaging operations from 6 a.m. to midnight, five days a week. The images are stored on old-school microfilm reels or as digital images. But there's no way to search the records, other than to scroll through one picture of a page at a time.
"We are ... prohibited from amassing the records of active dealers," Houser said. "It means that if a dealer is in business he maintains his records."
You been watching too much CSI and think the way it is done on TV is realistic.
see4
Well-Known Member
Oh you mean like these 45s? One that I keep in my office while I work, and the other in my truck at all times?
Face it NoDrama......
I do love the look of tax stamps. I suppose that's why I collect so many.
Don't be jelly. It's all good.
see4
Well-Known Member
Btw, in the lower corner.. is that a SCAR?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Oh you mean like these 45s? One that I keep in my office while I work, and the other in my truck at all times?
Face it NoDrama......
I do love the look of tax stamps. I suppose that's why I collect so many.
Don't be jelly. It's all good.
Did you drop this sir? The serial numbers said it belonged to you...
I see you like Hogue grips. Me too.Oh you mean like these 45s? One that I keep in my office while I work, and the other in my truck at all times?
Face it NoDrama......
I do love the look of tax stamps. I suppose that's why I collect so many.
Don't be jelly. It's all good.
No shotguns? No Precision rifles? No CCW firearms?
No Ak-47 or AK-74? No muzzle loaders? No revolvers? No falling block rifles? No derringers?
Is that a FN five-seven? Hard to tell at this angle.
I'm not jealous, I have way more firearms than you do. Plus I have awards for winning shooting matches in the Military.
see4
Well-Known Member
That is about right. But your statistics are off.
I have two friends that sold their gun on backpage, both made a bill of sale. Enough to verify a transaction. But as luck would have it, about 2 or so years later, ATF field agents called them inquiring about firearm with xxxx serial registered in their name as reported stolen in Florida. The both of them have never even set in Florida.
They sure do have access to that information.
FFLs that have a certain number of transactions per year, 1. pay more for FFL fees and/or SOT fees, if applicable, and 2. are audited. Period.
no, its a SIG 556 with mostly Swiss internals. Basically its the best parts of an AK47 mated to the ergos of the AR-15. Really dependable.
see4
Well-Known Member
Yea, I like Hogue grips. Makes that Para 45 an easier one hand shot. Because technically, if you hold a firearms with 2 hands and it is not a rifle, you are in violation.
I used to own a Rem 870.. got rid of it. Will start to look for an over-under once I recover my gun budget. I recently purchased a CZ 308 sniper.
No Ak-47, my buddy has several, and I don't like Russians.
No revolvers, haven't got around to it yet. Though I really should, they are fun as fuck to shoot.
No derringer, my hands are too large for those little guys.
No muzzle load. Because its 2015.
I don like the five-seven, its all plastic. I barely like my P30 for that reason.
I was a marksmen in the military too. pew pew.
I'd love to own a precision rifle, but can't get myself to spend $10,000 on a single firearm.
An audit still doesn't make a database of serial numbers. Its just an audit.
The ATF did not call your friend and inform them that they had a serial number registered under their name. Serial Number registration is ILLEGAL.
What you meant to say was that the BATF called them asking for information. They did not have those firearms registered to anyone other than the FFL dealer who had it on his log.
Once again. the BATF does not register serial numbers for the vast majority of sales that take place, that would be illegal.
see4
Well-Known Member
side charging?
see4
Well-Known Member
How do they know to call you if not by the serial number? It gets traced back to the FFL who transferred the firearm to you. That FFL is no long responsible for the gun, the transferee, you, are. When you then sell that firearm on backpage, if you do not get some sort of notarized bill of sale, in the eyes of the gubment you are still responsible for that firearm unless you can prove otherwise.
see4
Well-Known Member
For me, 1911s are like tattoos. Once you get one, you can't help but get more.
Problem is, my taste is expensive. I'd love to own some WW2 originals, but the condition I want, they are asking $9k or more them.
Sorry you have to endure that Canadian made 1911, does it fail a lot? That has been my experience. 1911's have malfunctions too often for my taste, so I never rely on them for defense.
Having a Muzzle loader allows me to get another deer tag above and beyond the one I get for my centerfire rifles and the one I get each year for my bow.
My CCW is a Smith & Wesson model 642 revolver.
I have a Glock 17 in my truck
a Sig Sauer P229 in my wife's vehicle
a Sig Sauer Mosquito in the harvester
I was not a marksman in the military, marksman is the lowest qualification of rifle accuracy in the USMC, we also called it the pizza box award.
I was a 5 time rifle expert and 4 time pistol expert. That is the highest qualification.
Sharpshooter is better than marksman, but not as good as expert.
