Spectrum all white vs white reds

[Cococola36]

Obviously this topic has been touched on a few times already, but i just wanted more insight about this debate as i have a possible upcoming diy project. I say possible because I may not have to change an led unit in my arsenal at all. The light in question is a Cidly Apollo 16 that a while back (over a year ago) I custom ordered led modules and secondary lens for and reassembled myself. At that time it was before the cob rage and before all white spectrum was proven. But after using my first white / red led the area 51 sgs 160 and seeing tags420 aka the now great Greengenes707 using the apache 120's with white / red I decided to change my apollo 16 from the "7" spectrum red,blue,orange white, etc...to white and red.
**Keep in mind** i did not and do not worry all that much about efficiency so no need to point that out as I'm already aware lol
My concerns and questions start here:
1 Is the spectrum I chose relevant at all to todays standards? 6500k, 630nm, 660nm . Each 15 chip module contains 5-6500k, 5-630nm, and 5-660nm. Epistar led most likely...
I feel maybe I chose too much red, as stated above this was a long time ago and probably didn't need all that red so looking for some input on that.
The light was pretty hot at full power (533.28 watts) so I changed it to 400 watts easily with bypassing to of the drivers inside the unit, turning off 4 modules. With only 12 modules on it produced less heat and spread out the modules that are one still illuminating a great footprint. The secondary lens I put in were all 60 degree instead of 90 so at a distance of 36" it covered 3x5ft very well. Here is the light as of now 37" long lol, Is it still worth keeping as is? Or do i continue with converting this beast into cxa cob machine?


If the above novel leads to the necessity to switch to cree cxa or bridgelux vero for a more up to date light tech and raw power then I will take All constructive criticism.

The drivers inside are constant 1.42a

Will these work for any of the current cob leds?

 

[captainmorgan]

I guess it would depend on which white you use. You mentioned the sgs and I think the RW is a improvement on that with 5700k and 630 nm.


My vote is for a COB beast

 

[Cococola36]

I guess it would depend on which white you use. You mentioned the sgs and I think the RW is a improvement on that with 5700k and 630 nm.


My vote is for a COB beast

I am open to 3000k and 4000k as this light would mainly be for veg purposes, but I could def see myself using it as a flower light in a tent as well.
The sgs 160's I had i did like a lot before going cmh, I didn't know the rw was 5700k with 630, guess my spectrum of 6500k and 630/660nm wasn't too bad for a year n a half ago haha

 

[Cococola36]

Bumping my own thread lol Lets get some votes in that poll people hahaha!

 

[puffenuff]

White/red gets my vote. The reds help promote essential oil production.

 

[Cococola36]

White/red gets my vote. The reds help promote essential oil production.

Duly noted puff learn something new everyday, I also have 2 ufos that pull 66 -68 watts each and are dedicated to just 630nm and 660nm leds. So "if" I had gone all white with the panel I could use the ufo to supplement the extra focus on reds for flower.

 

[Cococola36]

So far the votes are a land slide in favor of cob action , though it will be an open poll for a few weeks. So that I'll be investment ready for the decision

 

[Bueno Time]

Turn it into a COB beast. That driver in your picture (output 32-45V DC, 1420mA) looks like it will power a CXA3070 or Vero 29 at 1400mA or around 52 watts if you wanted to go that route, looks like you have 8 of those drivers in there from what I can tell in the pics.

 

[Positivity]

Yep.. Arctic 11 should fit too. Not sure I'd reuse those pcbs.

So many slots maybe a cool warm mix..

Could maybe clean the pcb up and mount a arctic or rosewill to it

 

[Cococola36]

Turn it into a COB beast. That driver in your picture (output 32-45V DC, 1420mA) looks like it will power a CXA3070 or Vero 29 at 1400mA or around 52 watts if you wanted to go that route, looks like you have 8 of those drivers in there from what I can tell in the pics.

Thanks fo the input Bueno! i was just writing a message while you wrote this in regards to the drivers I have so thanks for that answer.

With the options at hand,
I could easily get all white modules from cidly at a very low cost. Though not efficient or top notch leds.....but my panel has lasted a few years hmmm

With the cob's in mind, there is the decision of vero or cree...and the choice of drivers. As the apollo drivers are 70 watts 1450ma or 1.42 I'm no expert but have been reading through sds and supra threads to get more educated on that. From what i gather i could probably use the drivers that are already in there but would be pushing the cob to 70 watts which I'm sure digs into the efficiency annnnd heat situation. So thats a double cost factor, IF, I do need new drivers in addition to cobs... Was thinking if I did go the cob route and could use the apollo drivers, 3590 cxa would only be pushed less than half of there max wattage of 150.

Keeping the light "as is" is looking like

 

[Cococola36]

Yep.. Arctic 11 should fit too. Not sure I'd reuse those pcbs.

So many slots maybe a cool warm mix..

Hey positivity, not sure what arctic 11 are, but i def wont be re using the pcbs

 

[Cococola36]

Hey positivity, not sure what arctic 11 are, but i def wont be re using the pcbs

Nevermind cpu coolers duh.....im ashamed as im a pc tech hahaha

 

[Bueno Time]

If its a Constant Current driver (CC) then it will output 1420mA at any voltage within its operating range of 32-45V DC, the COB used determines the vF not the driver so the COB receives 1420mA at its forward voltage (CXA3070 ~37V @ 1400mA = ~52w).

Those drivers should work fine and run either a CXA3070 or Vero 29 each at just over 50w a piece.

 

[Cococola36]

If its a Constant Current driver (CC) then it will output 1420mA at any voltage within its operating range of 32-45V DC, the COB used determines the vF not the driver so the COB receives 1420mA at its forward voltage (CXA3070 ~37V @ 1400mA = ~52w).

Those drivers should work fine and run either a CXA3070 or Vero 29 each at just over 50w a piece.

Well then thats a game changer in my eyes. Thats 8 drivers like you noticed. And as of now the light uses 400 watts which 12 -15 3 watt leds per pcb using about 33.33 watts per pcb. I would much rather use 400+ watts of cob....but will still need to mull over other needs such as heatsink/coolers , cob array holders and reflectors or not? Man I hate decision making lol....Good thing I have some time.

 

[Greengenes707]

So what do the heatsinks look like??
If the drivers are the only thing salvageable then I would suggest starting from the beginning and just do a COB build perfect for your needs with all the best parts...I know you have no problem spending if it's worth it . So if the drivers are only ~85% efficient, then I would start from scratch.
But if you can get heatsinks and driver then it would be worth working with to get your feet wet.

I really like pure 3K. I don't have any other cob mixes to compare to yet...but 3K is the closest thing I have ever seen to hps.

 

[Cococola36]

So what do the heatsinks look like??
If the drivers are the only thing salvageable then I would suggest starting from the beginning and just do a COB build perfect for your needs with all the best parts...I know you have no problem spending if it's worth it . So if the drivers are only ~85% efficient, then I would start from scratch.
But if you can get heatsinks and driver then it would be worth working with to get your feet wet.

I really like pure 3K. I don't have any other cob mixes to compare to yet...but 3K is the closest thing I have ever seen to hps.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head in terms of getting my feet wet. I certainly don't mind spending (2k for the at 600 was still tough to swallow lol) but considering being new to the diy style, I would rather walk before I run so to speak. The heat sinks are maybe 1/2 inch thick finned , 6" wide by about 36" long and there are two of them. I would like to some how use the apollo casing like you did with your drone to keep things tidy and towards the professional approach but it obviously doesn't need to be perfect by any means. i was thinking maybe i could still some how attach a cpu/cooler heatsink combo to the apollo heatsinks but not sure how that would play out.

Edit: I like 3000k and 4000k but leaning on 3000k if possible. Tough considering i do have red to supplement 4000k if needed, since 4000k seems more appealing to the eye imo. Do you like how 3000k alone vegged your plants as far as node spacing and etc??

 

[Cococola36]

Correction the heatsinks are 1/2" thick / 4"wide / 36" long

 

[Cococola36]

From some help from @Bueno Time , I have 8 vero 29 from digikey in my cart amongst other things lol, just waiting for extra money and almost 100% pulling the trigger... @28.21 a pop i think its the best option imo. Also may go 3500k, I know 3000k seems to be the standard around here though i feel like the 3500k will be a sweet spot since I couldn't decide on 3000k or 4000k and didn't feel like doing a mix and match ordeal. Thanks for everyones input! I might go through the progress of my build through this thread, but since it may be a little while I may start a new one by then.
Any additional input or advice on this thread in the mean time will certainly be appreciated.

 

[Cococola36]

Annnnd everything I needed is ordered sooo looks like building will commence upon the arrival of it all! I said screw it and pulled the trigger. If you can't beat em join em COB beast for the win

 

[Cococola36]

Digikey tracking info email this morning, and my coolers from newegg are on there way oooo eeeeee almost build time The excitement is equal to the overwhelming feel of it all but i hope its one of those "damn this was easy" scenerios haha