The forbidden TRUTH

[tyler.durden]

Yep. The xians that feel the need to witness in this manner baffle me, do they really think that their preaching is the first or only exposure that someone has ever received? I have never once seen anyone say, "Christianity? That sounds interesting. Would you please preach to me, for there are no bibles or churches in my area, and the hundred xian tv channels don't come in on my set..." These folks that insist on unsolicited thumping seem to be trying to convince themselves more than others...

 

[ghostdriver]

Jeremiah 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.


Christmas Trees ^

 

[tyler.durden]

Jeremiah 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.


Christmas Trees ^

No, there were no xmas trees back then. The Germans started that tradition in the 15th century. Your post is another example of how one can interpret scripture to support just about any erroneous thing. You should really learn more about your own religion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree

 

[ghostdriver]

One google search of "Nimrod Christmas Tree" will prove you're wrong. They might now of called it a Christmas Tree; but it's a Pagan tradition.
Jeremiah 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
Christmas Trees ^

 

[ghostdriver]

 

[thepenofareadywriter]

Yep. The xians that feel the need to witness in this manner baffle me, do they really think that their preaching is the first or only exposure that someone has ever received? I have never once seen anyone say, "Christianity? That sounds interesting. Would you please preach to me, for there are no bibles or churches in my area, and the hundred xian tv channels don't come in on my set..." These folks that insist on unsolicited thumping seem to be trying to convince themselves more than others...

that is exactly why they preach...they need to hear those words...everyone they talk to is nothing more than a bouncing board...their message is their need...

 

[tyler.durden]

One google search of "Nimrod Christmas Tree" will prove you're wrong. They might now of called it a Christmas Tree; but it's a Pagan tradition.
Jeremiah 10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
Christmas Trees ^

I am not wrong. If you're speaking of using evergreens and wreaths symbolizing eternal life, that goes back all the way to the Egyptians. Even if you are correct this time about the practice stemming from pagan traditions, they were not associated with xmas. Therefore, they were not xmas trees until xians hijacked the tradition WAY after your scripture was supposedly written...

History
Possible predecessors

From Northern Antiquities, an English translation of the Prose Edda from 1847. Painted by Oluf Olufsen Bagge.
While it is clear that the modern Christmas tree originated during the Renaissance of early modern Germany, there are a number of speculative theories as to its ultimate origin. Its 16th-century origins are sometimes associated with Protestant Christian reformer Martin Luther who is said to have first added lighted candles to an evergreen tree.[1][9][10]

It is frequently traced to the symbolism of trees in pre-Christian winter rites, in particular through the story of Donar's Oak and the popularized story of Saint Boniface and the conversion of the German pagans, in which Saint Boniface cuts down an oak tree that the German pagans worshipped, and replaces it with an evergreen tree, telling them about how its triangular shape reminds humanity of the Trinity and how it points to heaven.[11][12]

According to the Encyclopædia Britannica, "The use of evergreen trees, wreaths, and garlands to symbolize eternal life was a custom of the ancient Egyptians, Chinese, and Hebrews. Tree worship was common among the pagan Europeans and survived their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmastime."[13]

Alternatively, it is identified with the "tree of paradise" of medieval mystery plays that were given on 24 December, the commemoration and name day of Adam and Eve in various countries. In such plays, a tree decorated with apples (to represent the forbidden fruit) and wafers (to represent the Eucharist and redemption) was used as a setting for the play. Like the Christmas crib, the Paradise tree was later placed in homes. The apples were replaced by round objects such as shiny red balls.[7][8][14][15][16][17]

 

[Skuxx]

How about this one...

Shall I go on? Do you really want me to explain the corruption and brain washing again?
The impossibilities... I told everyone this trick won't work now... The veil has been lifted from this elect generation..
Watch it happen

so that's your youtube channel. is that a bullshitproof helmet above your head?

 

[ghostdriver]

I've got my mind made up and I won't turn back
Because I want to see my Jesus someday
I've got my mind made up and I won't turn back
Because I want to see my Jesus someday
I am under the rock, the rock that's higher than I
Jehovah hides me, I am under the rock
Go tell my enemies, I am under the rock
Jehovah hide me, I am under the rock
Jesus name so sweet, Emanuel name so sweet
Jesus name so sweet, Emanuel name so sweet
Jesus name so sweet, Emanuel name so sweet
Jesus name so sweet, Emanuel name so sweet
Every rock, me rock upon Jesus Jesus' name so sweet
Every rock, me rock upon Jesus Jesus' name so sweet
Every rock, me rock upon Jesus Jesus' name so sweet
Every rock, me rock upon Jesus Jesus' name so sweet

 

[ghostdriver]

 

[New Age United]

Where are you getting your definitions from? Below is Webster's -9

ra·tio·nale
noun \ˌra-shə-ˈnal\
: the reason or explanation for something


Full Definition of RATIONALE
1
: an explanation of controlling principles of opinion, belief, practice, or phenomena
2
: an underlying reason : basis
See rationale defined for English-language learners »
See rationale defined for kids »
Examples of RATIONALE

1. <the rationale for starting the school day an hour later is that kids will supposedly get an extra hour of sleep>

Actually, I compared your delusion to the delusions of other forum clowns. Of course it's my ego, the main reason anyone posts on any forum, or expresses their personal beliefs, thoughts, ideas and feelings anywhere is for the sake of wanting to express oneself. That is the ego at work. You write ego like it's a negative thing, and that is after your agreeing that is a necessary thing for human progress in your enlightenment thread. My judging the intellectual content of your posts shows no lack of self awareness, and I do not see it as unintelligent. The ego has no place in philosophy? Says who?

What do I assume, and why is it too much?

You present yourself as educated, and well-versed in philosophy and cognitive science, yet you try to shift the Burden of Proof for your claims? That's a no-no even in Philosophy 101 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof.
Instead of providing proof or even support for your positive claims, you ask others to disprove them. That is a logical fallacy entitled Argument from Ignorance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

You cannot be taken seriously when you are unfamiliar with even the informal logical fallacies. I suggest you familiarize yourself with them - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies.
Violating them is the main reason the other forum clowns I mention fall for their own bullshit, don't fall prey to their mistakes...


You seem to count on the fact that it an ambiguous term, that way you can manipulate the word to fit your new age pet ideas and further your agenda of misinformation. The dictionary is a great resource to help clarify the meanings of words. Let's take a look -

in·tu·i·tion
noun \ˌin-tü-ˈi-shən, -tyü-\
: a natural ability or power that makes it possible to know something without any proof or evidence : a feeling that guides a person to act a certain way without fully understanding why

: something that is known or understood without proof or evidence


Full Definition of INTUITION
1
: quick and ready insight
2
a : immediate apprehension or cognition

b : knowledge or conviction gained by intuition

c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference

I can see it's appeal for you, it's a LOT easier than study, logic, reason and concerted rational thought backed by facts and evidence. I study cognitive science and, for a layman, I am pretty well-versed in how the human mind operates. If you want to use logic effectively, study the informal fallacies because at this point you do not. If you want to know how the mind actually works, study some cognitive science. If you want to state that you have, please provide those sources, and how they back up your new age claims...



You'd better hope not, because if you could, it doesn't seem like you would have access to it. Again, you are avoiding defining and clarifying concepts and the meaning of words, because without being able to keep them vague and muddy your philosophy seems to boil down to a bunch of feel good, easy-to-swallow assertions with no evidence or logic to back them up...

The ego has no place in philosophy, says who? Argument ad hominem, that is stating that the ego has no place in philosophy. Looking through the logical fallacies I can see how both you and 8 have been ignorant, indeed they do make perfect sense, and should be abided by. I can only imagine that it would take a great deal of practice to follow all of them without tripping. So let us start a debate, you will find that I am an apt pupil, whatever subject you can think of, just let me know and I will give reason for my refusal, my agreement, or my uncertainty.

 

[tyler.durden]

The ego has no place in philosophy, says who? Argument ad hominem, that is stating that the ego has no place in philosophy. Looking through the logical fallacies I can see how both you and 8 have been ignorant, indeed they do make perfect sense, and should be abided by. I can only imagine that it would take a great deal of practice to follow all of them without tripping. So let us start a debate, you will find that I am an apt pupil, whatever subject you can think of, just let me know and I will give reason for my refusal, my agreement, or my uncertainty.

It is certainly refreshing to see someone actually attempting to improve themselves, respect. The Argument Ad Hominem is the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent. That does not apply toward the ego in philosophy debate, as no personal attacks were present. An example of an ad hominem would be if I stated the ego has no place in philosophy because you're an idiot. I would be attacking you personally, as opposed to attacking the idea. I refuted the idea itself by giving multiple examples of ego in philosophy. The fact that you are looking for a philosophical debate is a great example of ego in philosophy, gotta love the irony. You do seem like an apt pupil, but aside from my sometimes confrontational style, I don't go around searching for debates. I'm mainly here to learn. I will often engage in one if I see members misrepresenting objective reality by stating beliefs as facts, claiming knowledge that they don't have access to, or just about any positive claim that has no credible evidence or support. If you have a topic that you'd like to debate, simply offer it up to see if a debate develops organically. We haven't had any trouble with that approach thus far

 

[New Age United]

It is certainly refreshing to see someone actually attempting to improve themselves, respect. The Argument Ad Hominem is the evasion of the actual topic by directing an attack at your opponent. That does not apply toward the ego in philosophy debate, as no personal attacks were present. An example of an ad hominem would be if I stated the ego has no place in philosophy because you're an idiot. I would be attacking you personally, as opposed to attacking the idea. I refuted the idea itself by giving multiple examples of ego in philosophy. The fact that you are looking for a philosophical debate is a great example of ego in philosophy, gotta love the irony. You do seem like an apt pupil, but aside from my sometimes confrontational style, I don't go around searching for debates. I'm mainly here to learn. I will often engage in one if I see members misrepresenting objective reality by stating beliefs as facts, claiming knowledge that they don't have access to, or just about any positive claim that has no credible evidence or support. If you have a topic that you'd like to debate, simply offer it up to see if a debate develops organically. We haven't had any trouble with that approach thus far

There is reason for argument other than to gratify the ego; I assure you I am not intending to win I am intending to find and understand the truth.

Is there an argument from assumption, example: You keep assuming that it is my ego that drives my words and intentions because that is a very natural response, you interact with egos all day long and have been your entire life, you were never expecting to meet a person who has transcended the mind and emptied themselves of ego, you don't even feel that it is possible, it is counter-intuitive to you, it just doesn't even seem logical to your understanding. But I am the way and the truth and life, I am the evidence, and I have great faith that I should be able to prove that this higher state of consciousness is possible to a rational and intuitive human being.

Let me pose this question to you.

What is Truth?

 

[ghostdriver]

John 14:6King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How many of you trolls are can shape- shift?

 

[tyler.durden]

There is reason for argument other than to gratify the ego; I assure you I am not intending to win I am intending to find and understand the truth.


Is there an argument from assumption, example: You keep assuming that it is my ego that drives my words and intentions because that is a very natural response, you interact with egos all day long and have been your entire life, you were never expecting to meet a person who has transcended the mind and emptied themselves of ego, you don't even feel that it is possible, it is counter-intuitive to you, it just doesn't even seem logical to your understanding.

When I am speaking of ego, I am using the psychological definition -


psychology : a part of the mind that senses and adapts to the real world
the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world


One cannot relate to others or to objective reality without the use of the ego. It is one's sense of self or a person's I-ness, as opposed to another's self. It senses and adapts to the real world/objective reality. If one were to be totally without ego, they wouldn't be able to consciously function; they wouldn't sense that they are apart from the cosmos around them, and couldn't see the boundaries between themselves, others or anything else in the physical universe. Even advanced monks who have mastered meditation will admit that they can never fully lose their ego, it is a life long journey with the goal being impossible for a human being. They attempt to lose their ego and desire, but the desire to lose these things demonstrates the paradox of how this is not fully possible. The very process of reflecting on and analyzing yourself that you are free of ego, is a function of the ego, as is anytime one uses the term ''I".

But I am the way and the truth and life, I am the evidence, and I have great faith that I should be able to prove that this higher state of consciousness is possible to a rational and intuitive human being.

When you start to use scripture or use jesus quotes pertaining to yourself, you start to lose credibility and sound like a nutter, imo. We already have a Nevaeh on this forum. You feel that you have attained a desirable state that is beyond what most have achieved, I simply see this as part of your delusion. You are no more advanced or enlightened than me, or most other intelligent members on this forum. You seem to have a deep-seated need to believe this is so, it smacks of immaturity and insecurity. But you seem to be willing to examine yourself and learn a new skill set for recognizing mistakes in logic and reasoning via the informal logical fallacies, so you may be able to become aware of these in your thinking process and start down a new, more realistic path...

Let me pose this question to you.
What is Truth?

This is a good question, as the word means such different things to people. When I speak of truth, I usually mean objective reality, or this definition of Webster - (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality
It is the state of the cosmos as it is without sentient creatures around to put their subjective spin on it. It takes discipline to examine objective reality without bias, subjectivity, or the penchant to favor ideas that comfort us or sound cool. To follow the credible data wherever it may lead in order to draw our conclusions based solely on that data, whether or not we subjectively like its destination. As I get older, ideas that appeal to me or comfort me become red flags suggesting that I am probably not being completely objective in my conclusions, so I am always on the hunt for where my confirmation bias may be lurking in my reasoning process. I've given up so many pet ideas in the last decade that I really loved simply because I could not support or justify them with evidence. When that is the case, I must let those ideas fall away and a little part of me dies along with them. This is the process one must live with if knowledge regarding truth/objective reality is the priority...

 

[tyler.durden]

John 14:6King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How many of you trolls are can shape- shift?

My penis can shift from a small, flaccid worm-like creature into a solid, mighty python three times the size under certain conditions. Does that count?

 

[New Age United]

When I am speaking of ego, I am using the psychological definition -


psychology : a part of the mind that senses and adapts to the real world
the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world


One cannot relate to others or to objective reality without the use of the ego. It is one's sense of self or a person's I-ness, as opposed to another's self. It senses and adapts to the real world/objective reality. If one were to be totally without ego, they wouldn't be able to consciously function; they wouldn't sense that they are apart from the cosmos around them, and couldn't see the boundaries between themselves, others or anything else in the physical universe. Even advanced monks who have mastered meditation will admit that they can never fully lose their ego, it is a life long journey with the goal being impossible for a human being. They attempt to lose their ego and desire, but the desire to lose these things demonstrates the paradox of how this is not fully possible. The very process of reflecting on and analyzing yourself that you are free of ego, is a function of the ego, as is anytime one uses the term ''I".





When you start to use scripture or use jesus quotes pertaining to yourself, you start to lose credibility and sound like a nutter, imo. We already have a Nevaeh on this forum. You feel that you have attained a desirable state that is beyond what most have achieved, I simply see this as part of your delusion. You are no more advanced or enlightened than me, or most other intelligent members on this forum. You seem to have a deep-seated need to believe this is so, it smacks of immaturity and insecurity. But you seem to be willing to examine yourself and learn a new skill set for recognizing mistakes in logic and reasoning via the informal logical fallacies, so you may be able to become aware of these in your thinking process and start down a new, more realistic path...




This is a good question, as the word means such different things to people. When I speak of truth, I usually mean objective reality, or this definition of Webster - (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality
It is the state of the cosmos as it is without sentient creatures around to put their subjective spin on it. It takes discipline to examine objective reality without bias, subjectivity, or the penchant to favor ideas that comfort us or sound cool. To follow the credible data wherever it may lead in order to draw our conclusions based solely on that data, whether or not we subjectively like its destination. As I get older, ideas that appeal to me or comfort me become red flags suggesting that I am probably not being completely objective in my conclusions, so I am always on the hunt for where my confirmation bias may be lurking in my reasoning process. I've given up so many pet ideas in the last decade that I really loved simply because I could not support or justify them with evidence. When that is the case, I must let those ideas fall away and a little part of me dies along with them. This is the process one must live with if knowledge regarding truth/objective reality is the priority...

Why can't I quote the prophets and scripture, isn't that along the lines of argument from incredulity.

Very good response on Truth. Ego death is possible by recognizing the illusion of the false self, you identify with the Thinker in your mind and absolutely believe that this is who you are, with absolute conviction you are the one who is thinking, but if you could snap out of the illusion of time and "realize" that all that is exists right now, if you could just focus your Attention on the Space in the Present Moment, then your thinking would come to a stand still and behold, you still exist, so if you are the Thinker then who are you when your thinking stops, the illusion is revealed and falls away, you now recognize your true Self as pure unwavering Awareness, the Light. Like you say you have had to face disillusionments and have had to let go of ideas you favored; I am not suppressing the shadow as a Jungian would believe, rather I have faced the illusion of the ego so many times that it can no longer trick me into identifying with it and has lost its strength in my Heart and Mind. Now with the ability to stop the mind at will I can clearly see objective reality, there is no separation between I and the cosmos, between I and you, for all Eternity We are One, a paradox.

 

[New Age United]

Can we transcend ego by way of conscience, can we stop focusing on ourselves and realize that there are people in this world who need our help, can we give without even the slightest desire to receive, can we give simply out of an honest caring and loving of other beings. I am not posturing myself as an advanced human being who is superior to others, rather I am able to rise above ego and self obsession and realize that the true Self in another is the same as my own true Self, and I do not want others to suffer just as I don't want myself to suffer, conscience.

Over the holidays let us be grateful for the tremendous abundance we and our loved ones have, let us not forget that there are children in the third world who need our help. It is only $30 a month to support SOS Children's Villages, a dollar a day falls out of my pocket, if you can afford it please give, give a little Love a lot. Who is willing to actually make a difference and actually change the world.

 

[New Age United]

My penis can shift from a small, flaccid worm-like creature into a solid, mighty python three times the size under certain conditions. Does that count?

My penis can shift from a small, flaccid worm-like creature into a solid, mighty python three times the size under certain conditions. Does that count?

Lmao!!! So what's wrong Mr Durden, did I strike a point?

 

[New Age United]

My penis can shift from a small, flaccid worm-like creature into a solid, mighty python three times the size under certain conditions. Does that count?

Bullshit, you're a pussy lol