New To LED

legitroller

Well-Known Member
Hey RIU ive been growing for a while about 5 grows under my belt and i decided that I wanted to try led heard good things. So I brought a 270 Watt Advanced Spectrum MAX 3w-Chip Modular LED Grow Light they say its equivalent to a 600w HID which I was using. So my question is how many plants should I be able to veg with this bad boy and flower an would I need anything extra. My tent is a 5×5×7 here's a link to the light http://growace.com/grow-light/led-grow-lights/270-watt-advanced-spectrum-max-3w-chip-modual-grow-light-kit.html thanks

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ellydee

Well-Known Member
And now for some bad news; that lamp should cover an area of about 2ft x 2.5ft.
Their coverage claims for flowering are exaggerated and there is nothing "advanced" about that spectrum.
Actual wattage draw should be about 180 watts.

The good news is it should produce for you.
4 plants with some LST (medium veg time)
6 plants SOG (short veg time for cuttings, or 12/12 from seed)
1 or 2 SCROG (long veg time to fill screen)

Good luck.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
That's just a rebranded Chinese import sold at a premium. It will grow ok, but you could have done much better for the money. (An Apollo direct from China for half the price, or an Area-51 for the same price).

That light is an Apollo 6 and about 195w actual. The various brands based on this light imply it's good for a 2x3' space (33w/sq ft). But, that's only if you're growing 1-2' tall plants. Even then you'd benefit from additional light to get it up to 40w/sq ft in flower. If growing 3' tall plants, you'll need about 45w sq ft, and 50 might be better.

By comparison, if you bought a A51 RW-150 for the same money, you'd spend less on electricity (150w actual) and only need 33w/ sq ft for 2x3 space and 4' tall plants.
 

legitroller

Well-Known Member
And now for some bad news; that lamp should cover an area of about 2ft x 2.5ft.
Their coverage claims for flowering are exaggerated and there is nothing "advanced" about that spectrum.
Actual wattage draw should be about 180 watts.

The good news is it should produce for you.
4 plants with some LST (medium veg time)
6 plants SOG (short veg time for cuttings, or 12/12 from seed)
1 or 2 SCROG (long veg time to fill screen)

Good luck.
That's just a rebranded Chinese import sold at a premium. It will grow ok, but you could have done much better for the money. (An Apollo direct from China for half the price, or an Area-51 for the same price).

That light is an Apollo 6 and about 195w actual. The various brands based on this light imply it's good for a 2x3' space (33w/sq ft). But, that's only if you're growing 1-2' tall plants. Even then you'd benefit from additional light to get it up to 40w/sq ft in flower. If growing 3' tall plants, you'll need about 45w sq ft, and 50 might be better.

By comparison, if you bought a A51 RW-150 for the same money, you'd spend less on electricity (150w actual) and only need 33w/ sq ft for 2x3 space and 4' tall plants.
So what more do I need for my setup I feel like they got over on me cause I was told it should work for my tent size

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DutchHaze

Well-Known Member
I'd start the veg. Then look into adding a 90w all red LED to add for flower time. Also maybe 2 cfl on the sides for some extra light. Your light will be fine, but might not be enough to pack a 5x5 tent with plants.
 

legitroller

Well-Known Member
I'd start the veg. Then look into adding a 90w all red LED to add for flower time. Also maybe 2 cfl on the sides for some extra light. Your light will be fine, but might not be enough to pack a 5x5 tent with plants.
Actually my tent is 4×4×7 so does that make any difference or will I still need extra light

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blowincherrypie

Well-Known Member
You would need at least one more of those for flowering.. If you can return it, I would do that. You should have checked out what other ppl were using and asked questions before you copped the lamp.. This will produce for you but you'll have dark corners as is... Good luck
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
So what more do I need for my setup I feel like they got over on me cause I was told it should work for my tent size
First, if you're a new grower you'll be fairly impressed with what it will produce. My Apollo 4 has a custom spectrum and it does ok. The buds are airy'er, the light doesn't penetrate the plant as far as a higher-quality light. I wouldn't by another, but it does ok. Especially for the price ($150 delivered). Where you got screwed was buying a rebranded light instead of direct from China for $200. I wouldn't recommend it for that price either, but it's closer to being a reasonable value at that price. At $500, that's complete predation.

Second, if you purchased with a credit card you can dispute the the purchase with the CC company. Your grounds would be that the light was advertised as a 270w, but it only uses 195w. It's common for LED fixtures to be presented as their total diode capacity (90 3w diodes = 270w). But, they're always driven at lower current so they don't burn out in 5 minutes.

Some brands like Area 51 describe their lights using actual current draw. For example the RW-150 actually uses 150 watts. Most brands will mention actual draw somewhere in the description. Fortunately for you, GrowAce doesn't. You could use this to your advantage, that it was deliberately misleading.

The other thing which looks deliberately misleading is their claim that it covers 4.25x4.25 in flower. That's 18sq ft. At 195w actual, that's 11w per sq. ft. Even the most expensive, efficient lights like Area 51 are sufficient for 20-25w/sq. ft. People often use them more aggressively at 30-35w/sq ft. For a Chinese import using epi-whatever diodes, you need 40w/sq ft. People often run them at 50w/sq ft. That's why it's good for about 5 sq ft. Perhaps 2x3, or 1.5x2.5.

You could call them and express your outrage over fall advertising, demand a refund including shipping fees to return it, and inform them you'll open a dispute with the credit card company.

The only thing to be concerned about is whether they have any idea you bought it for weed and not cabbage. There are reports of predatory companies like HydroGrowLED "grassing out" difficult customers to authorities. At least threatening such.

If you buy a $20 Kill-A-Watt meter you'll see how much actual wattage the light uses. I'm estimating 195w because my Apollo 4 (180w) uses 130w, which is 32.5w per module. Yours has 6 modules = 195w. I think that's a reasonable extrapolation. It's somewhere between 185-210w. Definitely nowhere near 270w. You don't need to buy a meter to prove this.

Good luck. If you choose to keep it rather than all the negative stuff fighting them for perhaps 90 days (the dispute process), you could supplement it with LED lightbulbs. I do that with a Chinese-import UFO. (<<link). They're more efficient than Chinese epi-whatever lights. You might need 30w/sq ft of these. 35-40w/sq ft if combined with your less efficient Chinese import light.

If you buy a new fixture, look at Area 51.
 

legitroller

Well-Known Member
First, if you're a new grower you'll be fairly impressed with what it will produce. My Apollo 4 has a custom spectrum and it does ok. The buds are airy'er, the light doesn't penetrate the plant as far as a higher-quality light. I wouldn't by another, but it does ok. Especially for the price ($150 delivered). Where you got screwed was buying a rebranded light instead of direct from China for $200. I wouldn't recommend it for that price either, but it's closer to being a reasonable value at that price. At $500, that's complete predation.

Second, if you purchased with a credit card you can dispute the the purchase with the CC company. Your grounds would be that the light was advertised as a 270w, but it only uses 195w. It's common for LED fixtures to be presented as their total diode capacity (90 3w diodes = 270w). But, they're always driven at lower current so they don't burn out in 5 minutes.

Some brands like Area 51 describe their lights using actual current draw. For example the RW-150 actually uses 150 watts. Most brands will mention actual draw somewhere in the description. Fortunately for you, GrowAce doesn't. You could use this to your advantage, that it was deliberately misleading.

The other thing which looks deliberately misleading is their claim that it covers 4.25x4.25 in flower. That's 18sq ft. At 195w actual, that's 11w per sq. ft. Even the most expensive, efficient lights like Area 51 are sufficient for 20-25w/sq. ft. People often use them more aggressively at 30-35w/sq ft. For a Chinese import using epi-whatever diodes, you need 40w/sq ft. People often run them at 50w/sq ft. That's why it's good for about 5 sq ft. Perhaps 2x3, or 1.5x2.5.

You could call them and express your outrage over fall advertising, demand a refund including shipping fees to return it, and inform them you'll open a dispute with the credit card company.

The only thing to be concerned about is whether they have any idea you bought it for weed and not cabbage. There are reports of predatory companies like HydroGrowLED "grassing out" difficult customers to authorities. At least threatening such.

If you buy a $20 Kill-A-Watt meter you'll see how much actual wattage the light uses. I'm estimating 195w because my Apollo 4 (180w) uses 130w, which is 32.5w per module. Yours has 6 modules = 195w. I think that's a reasonable extrapolation. It's somewhere between 185-210w. Definitely nowhere near 270w. You don't need to buy a meter to prove this.

Good luck. If you choose to keep it rather than all the negative stuff fighting them for perhaps 90 days (the dispute process), you could supplement it with LED lightbulbs. I do that with a Chinese-import UFO. (<<link). They're more efficient than Chinese epi-whatever lights. You might need 30w/sq ft of these. 35-40w/sq ft if combined with your less efficient Chinese import light.

If you buy a new fixture, look at Area 51.
Thanks for input im finding out a lot


You would need at least one more of those for flowering.. If you can return it, I would do that. You should have checked out what other ppl were using and asked questions before you copped the lamp.. This will produce for you but you'll have dark corners as is... Good luck
Well it was a Christmas present I said in a convo with a few pl I wanna try LED grow and boom one ends up at my door...

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DutchHaze

Well-Known Member
Actually my tent is 4×4×7 so does that make any difference or will I still need extra light

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Will prob need some extra light still. If you are experienced and know how to screen the top so everything is level, you'd be better off. I don't know much about that technique. Check my grow journal. I have a 240w led with the 90w all red. It's made 2 very large plants. I shoulda kept them shorter
 

BigEasy1

Well-Known Member
Has anybody else looked at those Platinum LED's that come with a 5 year warranty and 90 return policy if you don't like it? I almost bought one but read an article saying there was some new technology for LED grow lights on the horizon. I want to get at least two years of near continuous use before upgrading so I want to make the right decision. I know those Area 51's get good reviews but that Platinum LED warranty and return policy is the best Ive come across.
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
Even the most expensive, efficient lights like Area 51 are sufficient for 20-25w/sq. ft. People often use them more aggressively at 30-35w/sq ft. For a Chinese import using epi-whatever diodes, you need 40w/sq ft. People often run them at 50w/sq ft.
This is false. Then you are saying the Area 51 is twice as efficient as an Epistar, that is patently false. They are only about 15% more efficient. This may be what the Area 51 marking group wants people to believe, but it's false. I don't know about the worst example of an Epistar clone, but the real ones or the good Chinese ones are pretty decent.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
Has anybody else looked at those Platinum LED's that come with a 5 year warranty and 90 return policy if you don't like it?
I agree the warranty and 90-day trial period is appealing. What troubles me about this company is their use of the name "Advanced" and the same photos used by Advanced LED. It looks like an intentional name rip-off.

It doesn't look like they mention which brand LED they use. From what I've seen, when it's not mentioned it's because it's not something to be proud of.

A51, Rapid/Onyx, Hans, Apache are more transparent about what you're buying. A51 has a lifetime warranty (pay for replacement parts) and an anticipated upgrade path. For example, the next model will have the most efficient 10w chips. I assume the upgrade path will be available later in the year.

Anyway, if I were going to do Platinum, I think I'd do the real Advanced which they seem to be trying to confusing people they really are. Prices are about the same. Advanced LED has a trial period too.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
This is false. Then you are saying the Area 51 is twice as efficient as an Epistar, that is patently false. They are only about 15% more efficient. This may be what the Area 51 marking group wants people to believe, but it's false. I don't know about the worst example of an Epistar clone, but the real ones or the good Chinese ones are pretty decent.
How do you know you have "the good ones?" Most Chinese import lights use epi-whatever diodes, nobody knows what their pedigree is, and people using those lights to get similar results as A51 run about 50w sq/ft.

All I know is that I own 4 Chinese imports and 3 A51s. What I've described is what I've experienced, and what I've seen from others (both A51 growers and Chinese import fixtures).
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
How do you know you have "the good ones?" Most Chinese import lights use epi-whatever diodes, nobody knows what their pedigree is, and people using those lights to get similar results as A51 run about 50w sq/ft.

All I know is that I own 4 Chinese imports and 3 A51s. What I've described is what I've experienced, and what I've seen from others (both A51 growers and Chinese import fixtures).
I built my own, how many times do I have to tell you. The parts are cheap, the assembly is easy, I can build a 1000w Epistar led system for about $150. I'm afraid to look what a 1000w Epistar system would cost from a manufacturer. I would agree with everyone else if I didn't build my own, LED is not worth the price unless you DIY.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
I built my own, how many times do I have to tell you.
We've been talking about what most people buy as fixtures imported from China with epi-whatever chips.

If you could track down actual Epistar chips from Taiwan of known pedigree, good for you. Most people who DIY don't go that route.

Either way, your DIY experience does not define what's happening with the typical fixtures people can buy.
 

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
We've been talking about what most people buy as fixtures imported from China with epi-whatever chips.

If you could track down actual Epistar chips from Taiwan of known pedigree, good for you. Most people who DIY don't go that route.

Either way, your DIY experience does not define what's happening with the typical fixtures people can buy.
You can tell by looking closely at the emitter, you can also tell by reading the reviews. Anyway, my personal opinion is run the hell away from LED if you have to buy manufactured fixtures. Maybe 5 years from now they will come down to a reasonable price, or go up in quality enough to be worth it. The only LED systems I have seen that are worth the price are DIY.
 

uzerneims

Well-Known Member
Fucking LED SUCKS. Sell it now to some other UNINFORMED FOOL THAT DOESN'T BELIEVE THE BULLSHIT and get some VHO t5's, if you are worried about heat or height. Been there, did it, and I would never go back to that useless shit to bloom with. It will work if you are worried about energy cost's, but that is the only thing it is good for. Come on LED boys, show me some bud, and, maybe a cola will be as big as a midget's dick I will bet on that ( unless he have a Holmes). SHOW ME BIG BUD ON LED. NEVER FUCKING HAPPEN.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-led-grow-lights-with-cree-cxa3070-cobs-and-cpu-coolers.805681/page-2#post-10389272
and there are more...

Or take a look at @captainmorgan , you troll :))
https://www.rollitup.org/t/another-cree-cxa3070-diy-thread.824364/page-21#post-11005394
 
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