Water level from net pot / Net pot depth.

[coopersheldon]

So i have DWC system with a top feeder all recirculates.

i last used rockwool cubes and the top feeder completely killed my plants. due to saturation..

so my question is.

My net pots are probably 6" deep, when potting new clones how high should my water level be? how will my roots get wet if the water line is 2" below the pebbles (top feeder off). doesn't seem to be getting them? the air stones i have are bubbling just fine.

 

[kmog33]

The bubbles from the airstone should throw enough water up to wet roots of the clones as long as the water is up to the bottom inch or so of your substrate.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

 

[Medicationist]

At the start keep the water level about an inch from the pot with an air stone underneath. I clone straight into hydroton so my top feed goes almost 24/7 until I get a good root system going. The pic was taken at like day 16 or something. Once you have a good enough root structure I will actually put the water line above the bottom of the pot. But I also have a lot of DO. Oxygen is crucial. If you are doing rockwool, you can put a few silicate rocks or clay balls that the top feed will hit, and then send only a little amount of water to the rockwool cube. Hope it makes sense. If rockwool doesn't work just do straight hydroton. Too easy!

 

[Medicationist]

Forgot to post the picture. Also, I have never had roots as good as this till I used roots excelurator.

 

[coopersheldon]

The bubbles from the airstone should throw enough water up to wet roots of the clones as long as the water is up to the bottom inch or so of your substrate.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

Thats the thing, i experimented with a couple and took the top feeders out. the air pump is very powerful so i have no doubt its adequate. but when i checked them a day later the ones without top feeders were completely dried up and dead. now... this could be down to my ventilation at the time wasnt adequate... which has since been corrected. but i'm putting a new batch in at the start of the year and dont want any to die again.

 

[coopersheldon]

At the start keep the water level about an inch from the pot with an air stone underneath. I clone straight into hydroton so my top feed goes almost 24/7 until I get a good root system going. The pic was taken at like day 16 or something. Once you have a good enough root structure I will actually put the water line above the bottom of the pot. But I also have a lot of DO. Oxygen is crucial. If you are doing rockwool, you can put a few silicate rocks or clay balls that the top feed will hit, and then send only a little amount of water to the rockwool cube. Hope it makes sense. If rockwool doesn't work just do straight hydroton. Too easy!

i get my clones from an out source and this was the first time id had them in rockwool, next time i will ask for them just pure roots, that way i can run my top feed 24/7 till the roots hit the water. thanks for the advice. that is a lovely looking root ball!

i use canna nutrients and my roots tend to go a brownish colour... the colour of the water goes brown so assume this is why?

 

[Medicationist]

i use canna nutrients and my roots tend to go a brownish colour... the colour of the water goes brown so assume this is why?[/QUOTE]

Most likely its the nutes. I use Cyco and when I add their product "Uptake" it will leave a brownish residue on them. If it washes off easily and your roots are still rigid thats probably what it is. If the brown parts start stinking, is harder to rinse off, or making the roots mushy is when you have a problem. Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[coopersheldon]

i use canna nutrients and my roots tend to go a brownish colour... the colour of the water goes brown so assume this is why?

Most likely its the nutes. I use Cyco and when I add their product "Uptake" it will leave a brownish residue on them. If it washes off easily and your roots are still rigid thats probably what it is. If the brown parts start stinking, is harder to rinse off, or making the roots mushy is when you have a problem. Hope this helps. Good luck.[/QUOTE]


Has been a great help. Thanks

 

[kmog33]

Thats the thing, i experimented with a couple and took the top feeders out. the air pump is very powerful so i have no doubt its adequate. but when i checked them a day later the ones without top feeders were completely dried up and dead. now... this could be down to my ventilation at the time wasnt adequate... which has since been corrected. but i'm putting a new batch in at the start of the year and dont want any to die again.

So fill the water higher

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

 

[SnapsProvolone]

I put my water right to the bottom of the net pot. Used to do 1" below but noticed roots browned above the water line. As long as the base of the stem isn't staying wet you shouldn't have issues with damping off.

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Ditch the top feed in dwc. It's just begging for damp off.

 

[coopersheldon]

Ditch the top feed in dwc. It's just begging for damp off.

What is "damp off"

 

[Medicationist]

Damping off is when a clone or seedling just spontaneously droops over and dies. Stems will usually be mushy and bend easily. It's usually caused by bacteria or a fungus.

I found that rockwool has this happen a lot, my rapid rooters do it occasionally. However, I now clone directly into hydroton and it hasn't happened since. If you keep your clones CLEAN, the water cool, low nutes, and enough bubbles you shouldn't have this issue. I top feed 24/7 for the first couple weeks because a) I have a 200 gallon system and it is costly to fill and b) my clay dries out too fast.

I have found that the continuous running water from the top feed prevents bacterial growth because water is always moving. When the water is right at the bottom of the net it can create a stagnant level of water within the net pot... the only downfall I have found with continuous top feed is you don't get that microfiberous roots that grow near the very top of the roots.

Now when I clone I put them straight in a 3 5/8th net pot filled with clay and place it in my normal hydro system. No rooters or rockwool for fungus to grow on. I then mist it and cover with a blue Dixie cup. This helps preventing too much light hitting the clone and helps trap humidity that is being released from the air bubbles in the system. I now have about a 99.9% success rate. Too easy.

 

[coopersheldon]

Damping off is when a clone or seedling just spontaneously droops over and dies. Stems will usually be mushy and bend easily. It's usually caused by bacteria or a fungus.

I found that rockwool has this happen a lot, my rapid rooters do it occasionally. However, I now clone directly into hydroton and it hasn't happened since. If you keep your clones CLEAN, the water cool, low nutes, and enough bubbles you shouldn't have this issue. I top feed 24/7 for the first couple weeks because a) I have a 200 gallon system and it is costly to fill and b) my clay dries out too fast.

I have found that the continuous running water from the top feed prevents bacterial growth because water is always moving. When the water is right at the bottom of the net it can create a stagnant level of water within the net pot... the only downfall I have found with continuous top feed is you don't get that microfiberous roots that grow near the very top of the roots.

Now when I clone I put them straight in a 3 5/8th net pot filled with clay and place it in my normal hydro system. No rooters or rockwool for fungus to grow on. I then mist it and cover with a blue Dixie cup. This helps preventing too much light hitting the clone and helps trap humidity that is being released from the air bubbles in the system. I now have about a 99.9% success rate. Too easy.

This is only my first time in dwc.

I made the mistake of using the recommended strength of nutrients and believe I got root lock as growth was stunted (you live and learn)

I have a 16pot system and all is running smoothly now.

I think next time I will pot straight to hydroton, 1/4 strength nutes and top feed.

What precautions do you take to ensure water temps stay low?

I was thinking of covering the tops of my pots with a reflective sheeting to prevent the lights directly heating the water. Don't really want to invest in a cooler, although no temp issues so far

 

[Medicationist]

Yeah I have to use a chiller for my undercurrent system but my individual unit I just chill with a frozen juice bottle. I recommend them highly as it will make life easier and plants healthy. The reflective material would be nice and if you don't have heat issues and are on a budget you could use some mylar blankets. Last, I have to say roots excelurator has been the most impressive product I have used so far. Killer roots bro! Good luck!

 

[Logan Burke]

I put my water right to the bottom of the net pot. Used to do 1" below but noticed roots browned above the water line. As long as the base of the stem isn't staying wet you shouldn't have issues with damping off.

I second that Snaps, allowing your water to barely touch the netpot allows your medium to absorb water, which your tap root will sense and begin to grow into. And while trying to grow deeper into the medium, the roots will come right out of the bottom of your net pot. With my clones, I still added about 60mL of plain pH'ed water to the hydroton in each net pot everyday just to make sure the roots that weren't as close to the bottom of the net pot could still get moisture and continue to grow.
However, allowing your water to be just under the netpot allowing air bubbles to create a "mist" works well too, I'm not sure which is best. I would look into bennies such as Hydroguard in respect to pythium however, sterilization IMO isn't nearly as effective. I compare it by saying would a sterilized liver function better than a liver populated by beneficial bacteria (i.e yeast eating bacteria). Obviously, it's hard to compare human liver to a flower, but it makes the point all the same.

P.S. I didn't just see pythium cured from my system with Hydroguard, but saw an exponential increase in root mass, literally an explosion of pearly white's bursting out of the old infected roots! Absolutely amazing. Anywho, just my opinion and what works best for myself, just thought that it might help someone else to share it...happy growing everyone, I'll be happy to see where this thread goes!

 

[blackforest]

P.S. I didn't just see pythium cured from my system with Hydroguard, but saw an exponential increase in root mass, literally an explosion of pearly white's bursting out of the old infected roots! Absolutely amazing. Anywho, just my opinion and what works best for myself, just thought that it might help someone else to share it...happy growing everyone, I'll be happy to see where this thread goes!

I have had the same results with Hydroguard, and from what I understand, hydroguard does not kill and remove the brown roots, but will allow new roots to flourish via a more competitive bacteria (bacillus). The infected roots will basically stay that way. Mine barley started to turn brown, but the next run I'll be using this as a preventative of course. So far I'm very impressed.

 

[Logan Burke]

I believe you're right on all that Blackforest, I was all gun-ho about H202 till I caught pythium. And yes my infected roots stayed brown for as long as I could still see them, but new growth...different story. But yeah I'll be doing the exact same thing, do you know if you apply more Hydroguard/per gallon as your root mass gets larger or do you keep it at the same, consistent rate throughout the whole grow?...How do you do it? I would assume even if using the same amount of water, when there's more roots there's a need for more bacteria to colonize them...but that was just my take on it.

 

[blackforest]

I believe you're right on all that Blackforest, I was all gun-ho about H202 till I caught pythium. And yes my infected roots stayed brown for as long as I could still see them, but new growth...different story. But yeah I'll be doing the exact same thing, do you know if you apply more Hydroguard/per gallon as your root mass gets larger or do you keep it at the same, consistent rate throughout the whole grow?...How do you do it? I would assume even if using the same amount of water, when there's more roots there's a need for more bacteria to colonize them...but that was just my take on it.

Hydroguard recomends 2ml/gal for the entire grow. Add when you change out your rez (once per week). I would imagine they keep it the same because the bacteria will basically grow as long as there is a food source. It's about $28/liter, but it lasts quite a long time.

 

[Logan Burke]

See this that is what I theorized but wasn't sure about, but the bacteria no matter how low in numbers should increase eventually if temps/food is available and correct. Do you know if there's anything in particular I can do to give the bennies more food? Or is the food naturally provided via your roots and other microbes in the water? Sorry for the questions, it's just that my pH has been dropping very fast and even though I am applying Hydroguard and roots look ok besides infected roots from before it still worries me. Mostly because the root ball is soo massive (veggied too long, roots almost too big for the bucket), I can't check all roots properly.