Problems with 4 of 6 seedlings. Please help!

[curiousone11]

This is my first grow and I've made more mistakes than I thought I could have. I think most of it is due to simple excitement and anxiousness to get started.

Setup:
Secret Jardin Dark Street II Tent 5ft x 5ft x 6.5ft Tall (DS150II)
- 6" Cooltube XL Reflector w/ add-on 26" x 25" Extra Large Wing
- 600 watt iPower Digital Dimmable Ballast
- 600 watt iPower Hortilife Super High Pressure Sodium Bulb (85,000 Lumen @ 2100k color temp)
- 600 watt iPower Hortilife Metal Halide Bulb (55,000 Lumen @ 6500k color temp)
- 6" High Output In Line Duct Fan 435 CFM (for carbon filter)
- 6”x24” Funk Filter Carbon Air Filter
- 6” Booster In-Line Duct Fan (250CFM each) (one for cooltube and one as fresh air intake for the tent)
- Speed Bully Motor Speed Controller for high output fan on the carbon filter.
- Small desk fan for air circulation inside the tent


I started all the seedlings in 3.5 gallons pro-mix organic vegetable & herb mix with 4 cups of worm casting compost mixed in. First Problem: started in pots that were way too big...my though was that I could avoid transplant and just grow in a big pot......problem was drainage was poor. Nine days after everything sprouted problems were starting to show in plants 2, 4, 5 and 6. I decided to remove all the plants from the pots and mix in perlite to the soil as I knew the soil was poor draining. 3 days later and no improvements. This is when I realized the pro-mix organic vegetable and herb mix has slow release nutrients in it! Also the bag states it's minimum NPK analysis is 0.30 - 0.12 - 0.10. That coupled with the fact that I mixed in 4 cups of worm castings that have a minimum NPK analysis of 0.5 - 0.5 - 0.5. I figured the soil was "hot". Plants 1 + 3 seemed to be doing just fine though!

I finally managed to find some Pro-Mix HP (which is what I originally wanted to grow in) added ONE cup of worm castings into the same sized pot and transplanted plants 2,4,5 and 6. I threw out all the old soil.

I know these 4 poor plants are totally stressed out and I've probably hurt them more than anything. I do have the green planet nutrient line up ready to go (grow, bloom, cal-mag, ph up, ph down, TDS meter, ph meter etc.)

Temps: 25C(77F)
Relative humidity: 60%
Soil PH for Pro-mix HP: 7 (fresh, hasn't broken down yet)
Soil PH for Pro-mix vegetable and herb mix: 7

First here are the plants that are doing just fine and dandy on day #14 of sprouting STILL in the original mix (veg and herb with 4 cups worm casting) but all the other plants seemed to hate right off the bat.

Plant #1


Plant #3




Here are the others before and after

Plant #2 - Day 9 in old vegetable and herb mix:

Plant #2 - Day 14 (In pro-mix HP since day 11):

What is wrong with this girl? it's the only one that looks this bad in terms of wrinkles and weird ass leafs.


Plant #4 - Day 9 in old vegetable and herb mix:

Plant #4 - Day 14 (In pro-mix HP since day 11):



Plant #5 - Day 9 in old vegetable and herb mix: (total runt)

Plant #5 - Day 14 (In pro-mix HP since day 11):
Seems fine now?


Plant #6 - Day 9 in old vegetable and herb mix:

Plant #6 - Day 14 (In pro-mix HP since day 11):



Total mess of a first grow, but I'm not totally discouraged. Give me a hand? I'll follow up with this post with more information in a moment with idea's on causes and other factors I may have overlooked.

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Diabolical666]

I think you did the right thing...only thing I would correct is the RH, drop it at least to 40%, powder mold sucks to have, and your conditions are close to perfect for it

 

[curiousone11]

More pictures from today...

Plant #2 side shots


Plant #4 side shots


Plant #6 side shots



Is this "the claw" from nitrogen toxicity from having started in "hot" soil or just a combination of things? I just don't get why plant #1 and #3 seemed to start so well and the others lagged behind and began showing problems.

 

[Diabolical666]

Wait, do you have a 600w on them?

 

[curiousone11]

I had watered my plants with "Nestle Pure Life" bottled water from the start up until 3 days ago when I realized exactly what was in the water....

Mineral salt content of 552 PPM and it's ozonated. Either way when I saw "salt" and "sodium" of 25mg per 500ml I panicked. Salt isn't exactly desirable right?

I'm now using RO water PHed to 6. I realize I will have to now use cal-mag sometime in the future as those were present in the nestle water.

Bleh....

 

[Diabolical666]

Is the nnew growth looking any better?

 

[Ninjabowler]

I have good news. Your doing just fine in your quest to grow some grass bro. Youve obviously got a head on your shoulders because you listed all the growing conditions in your plant problem thread. Most dont. Your transplant looked like it worked, the containers still look way too big but their alive and growing. The roots are taking off as you read this and the plants look like they will start the upward climb as well soon....provided you dont kill them with your feeding schedule. Promix and other soiless mixes can throw new growers for a loop because its easy to burn the plants if your not careful how much you feed.
Youve obviously been reading a lot which is good, keep reading, the more you know, coupled with a grow or two under your green belt, the better your results will become. This hobby is about trial and error and experience. Next time im sure youll start in appropriate sized containers and wait till the roots are holding the medium together and have pressed into the inside walls of the container. Usually the plant is as big as the container is or bigger usually before theyre ready to transplant. I start in half gallon containers and the plant is almost the size of a soccer ball before it gets moved into its flowering container, 5 or 7 gallon.
Your biggest problem for the next while will be watering. Filling those containers up with water will stunt the growth by drowning the plants as you know, so just water a cup or two at a time for now and wait until dry. This makes flushing the medium of salts your adding hard though so id take feeding slowly until you can push water through the medium and not encounter salt build up issues when the plant is bigger.
I figure youll be fine cause your a smart guy. Good luck.

 

[curiousone11]

Wait, do you have a 600w on them?

I had 600 watt at 100% on them from the start at about 20 inches, then I raised it to 24 inches when I saw problems. surface temperature of the plants never exceeded 28C-30C (82F-86F) as measured with my digital infrared thermometer gun.

Now I have the light at 24 inches and at 75% power and surface temps of the plants do not exceed 25C-26C(77F-79F) and the room temperature is 24C-25C (75F-77F)

 

[Ninjabowler]

I had watered my plants with "Nestle Pure Life" bottled water from the start up until 3 days ago when I realized exactly what was in the water....
View attachment 3288950 View attachment 3288951
Mineral salt content of 552 PPM and it's ozonated. Either way when I saw "salt" and "sodium" of 25mg per 500ml I panicked. Salt isn't exactly desirable right?

I'm now using RO water PHed to 6. I realize I will have to now use cal-mag sometime in the future as those were present in the nestle water.

Bleh....

Hahahaa, like i said, trial and error. Ya, youll need your cal mag supplement for sure, and ya, quit salting your plants with NaCl.

 

[Ninjabowler]

I had 600 watt at 100% on them from the start at about 20 inches, then I raised it to 24 inches when I saw problems. surface temperature of the plants never exceeded 28C-30C (82F-86F) as measured with my digital infrared thermometer gun.

Now I have the light at 24 inches and at 75% power and surface temps of the plants do not exceed 25C-26C(77F-79F) and the room temperature is 24C-25C (75F-77F)

Does it have a 400 w setting? Id use it at 24 inches away for those little babies. 2x23 watt cfls would handle those little girls just fine right now. You dont want light burn as another stress factor. Heats one thing, light burn is a whole new demon.

 

[curiousone11]

I have good news. Your doing just fine in your quest to grow some grass bro. Youve obviously got a head on your shoulders because you listed all the growing conditions in your plant problem thread. Most dont. Your transplant looked like it worked, the containers still look way too big but their alive and growing. The roots are taking off as you read this and the plants look like they will start the upward climb as well soon....provided you dont kill them with your feeding schedule. Promix and other soiless mixes can throw new growers for a loop because its easy to burn the plants if your not careful how much you feed.
Youve obviously been reading a lot which is good, keep reading, the more you know, coupled with a grow or two under your green belt, the better your results will become. This hobby is about trial and error and experience. Next time im sure youll start in appropriate sized containers and wait till the roots are holding the medium together and have pressed into the inside walls of the container. Usually the plant is as big as the container is or bigger usually before theyre ready to transplant. I start in half gallon containers and the plant is almost the size of a soccer ball before it gets moved into its flowering container, 5 or 7 gallon.
Your biggest problem for the next while will be watering. Filling those containers up with water will stunt the growth by drowning the plants as you know, so just water a cup or two at a time for now and wait until dry. This makes flushing the medium of salts your adding hard though so id take feeding slowly until you can push water through the medium and not encounter salt build up issues when the plant is bigger.
I figure youll be fine cause your a smart guy. Good luck.

Yeah, next time around I will definitely start them in a solo cup and transplant twice to progressively larger pots. I've been using one of those 2 prong soil moisture meters to determine when to water. Would it be a bad idea to use transparent solo cups to start in so I can monitor root development or do I risk damaging the roots from light exposure?

 

[curiousone11]

Does it have a 400 w setting? Id use it at 24 inches away for those little babies. 2x23 watt cfls would handle those little girls just fine right now. You dont want light burn as another stress factor. Heats one thing, light burn is a whole new demon.

Ballast has a 100%, 75% and 50% setting. I'm trying to figure out how to use my LUX meter right now...the scale on it is wonky so I'll get back to you on my readings.

 

[Ninjabowler]

Fuck man, water probes and lux meters? You got some crazy gear for a brother on his first grow. Youll be teaching me how its done in a year

 

[Ninjabowler]

Yeah, next time around I will definitely start them in a solo cup and transplant twice to progressively larger pots. I've been using one of those 2 prong soil moisture meters to determine when to water. Would it be a bad idea to use transparent solo cups to start in so I can monitor root development or do I risk damaging the roots from light exposure?

Yes it would be a bad idea to use transparent solo cups. Roots dont enjoy light, or theyd grow outta the ground. And algae can grow if its wet all the time.....from what ive heard. I stick to what the good word is. No clear containers unless their clear with a removable cover....which would actually be kinda fun to watch huh?

 

[curiousone11]

Alright.......Here are my LUX readings....

The four plants in the "corners" are getting about 8300 LUX with 600W at 75% on ballast at 24inches.


The two plants in the middle are getting about 9300 LUX with 600W at 75% on ballast at 24 inches.


These light readings are rather low are they not? Is this all that's necessary for early seedling growth? I'm getting a LUX reading of 6500 on a completely cloud covered November day outside right now...

This article seems to think it needs to be higher: http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/lighting_guide.php

 

[curiousone11]

21,000 LUX with 600watt at 100% in the middle at canopy level

17,500 LUX with 600watt at 100% on the corners at canopy level

Hmmmmmm

 

[SnaFuu]

I have good news. Your doing just fine in your quest to grow some grass bro. Youve obviously got a head on your shoulders because you listed all the growing conditions in your plant problem thread. Most dont. Your transplant looked like it worked, the containers still look way too big but their alive and growing. The roots are taking off as you read this and the plants look like they will start the upward climb as well soon....provided you dont kill them with your feeding schedule. Promix and other soiless mixes can throw new growers for a loop because its easy to burn the plants if your not careful how much you feed.
Youve obviously been reading a lot which is good, keep reading, the more you know, coupled with a grow or two under your green belt, the better your results will become. This hobby is about trial and error and experience. Next time im sure youll start in appropriate sized containers and wait till the roots are holding the medium together and have pressed into the inside walls of the container. Usually the plant is as big as the container is or bigger usually before theyre ready to transplant. I start in half gallon containers and the plant is almost the size of a soccer ball before it gets moved into its flowering container, 5 or 7 gallon.
Your biggest problem for the next while will be watering. Filling those containers up with water will stunt the growth by drowning the plants as you know, so just water a cup or two at a time for now and wait until dry. This makes flushing the medium of salts your adding hard though so id take feeding slowly until you can push water through the medium and not encounter salt build up issues when the plant is bigger.
I figure youll be fine cause your a smart guy. Good luck.

Yes...This.

Welcome to the club
Have fun with it

 

[curiousone11]

All a learning process!

I was fantasizing about a trouble free grow...PHHHT!

 

[curiousone11]

I decided to raise the light to 28 inches above canopy level and turn the ballast to 100%.

LUX levels are now 18,500 for middle plants and 16,500 for the corner plants. Surface temps of plants are stable between 25C-26C (77F-79F)

I also turned my humidifier at my air intake down and have my relative humidity at 50%.

I'll see how they react.