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TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Why make the assumption? Post where I knocked Dearborn.




I've often wondered about your ethnicity, and especially now, as you generally rip on whites, or at least, that's my impression. Care to share?

Is it your opinion, that the Doc should be in 'lockstep' with his race?
I'm a white guy. I don't think I "rip on whites". Being critical of the apparent privilege I'm granted for being a white male isn't a bad thing. Not looking to change your mind, but let me share a few experiences which would have ended very differently had I been a minority, as I've seen friends who aren't white experience:

1. The most blatant example was the time I received an MIP (minor in possession) when I was sleeping in my car with my friend in a Wayne State parking structure after spending the night partying in Canada for a friend's birthday. I hadn't drove across the border as I was drunk as fuck later at 3:30 am blowing a 1.0. I was asleep in the driver seat with the car off but with the keys in the ignition ( right there I could have had a DUI). Not only that, we weren't put in the drunk tank but told to go to our friend who we were lucky enough to wake up. After a long ordeal of my friend and I going back and forth to Detroit, representing ourselves nonethelesd, we were approached by a prosecutor who saw easy marks. Suburban kids, not dragging mommy and daddy (seriously, you are an adult handle your own shit, so many other dragged their parents) we were asked by a prosecutor "how much money do you have on you? I can have you thrown in jail right now" which I knew was a lie. My friend signed over his paycheck for $412 to him and the prosecutor said the state didn't have a case and he wished to dismiss it. Right there was an example of privilege, do you think the black kids in the same situation got off so easily? Fuck no, and it was crooked and illegal as shit. But it's a game theory, when someone gives you a deal too good to pass up, you take it. This person could have made things worse. Was justice served? No, but I directly benefited and got out on the cheap of $206.

Another example, I get pulled over in a high drug trafficking area with a QP in my car. I'm white, dressed nice, with a great bullshit alibi of studying for class. Officer asks me if he could take a look in my car, I state "Officer, may you tell me what probable cause gives you the right to search my vehicle? Because as I see it no, and my answer is no you may not". Off I go with a "be safe this is a bad area"

I grew up in a 94% white suburb. Not even 10 miles from me, students are not getting the same and equal educational experience as I am. This is troubling as if anyone needs stronger education system, it is the areas most affected by poverty.

I recognize the privilege I have and have exercised. I know others haven't had the same outcomes. Despite me breaking the law, I always received better treatment. Having a racists uncle who bragged about his Maglite being a "nigger beater" and reminiscing of the days of harassing black people showed me how systematic racism is alive and well.

These are just some of the experiences that have shaped me, perhaps this gives you some insight of where I come from.
 

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
I'm a white guy. I don't think I "rip on whites". Being critical of the apparent privilege I'm granted for being a white male isn't a bad thing..........[ snip]........ perhaps this gives you some insight of where I come from.
Would you believe me if I said your self-description is exactly what I had assumed? [Dang uncanny - not. ]

It only makes sense, that since you labeled a black man criticizing a large segment of his race as 'self hating black', that you'd likely be a self loathing white guilt tripper. No offense intended, as your posts clearly indicate it; the last one verifying it, so I assume you've no problem w/ the label.

Myself...I'm guilt free and unburdened, as I've never repressed anyone, minority or majority. Fo shizzle ! :cool: As they say, 'it takes all types to make the world grind to a halt'....or something like that. ;)
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
I've got no "guilt", guilt implies having done something. I'll take you at your word as you stated " no offense", but seeing as you are older than me and have your own unique experience, I will avoid trying to make you into a caricature as you just did me (either intentionally, or I as I hope and suspect unintentionally, but please correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not finding any where in my post suggesting I or anyone apologize for being white.
 

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
I'll take you at your word as you stated " no offense", but seeing as you are older than me and have your own unique experience, I will avoid trying to make you into a caricature as you just did me (either intentionally, or I as I hope and suspect unintentionally
But isn't that what you did when calling E T [ the Doctor of Common Sense ] Williams a 'self hating black man' ? :eyesmoke:

Surely you don't suspect Sir Charles of some sort of self hate....right?

 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Oh god, first rule of sourcing info is never source it from Charles Barkley lol. In all seriousness he is not entirely wrong having seen this first hand myself but for him to say it is "black people's dirty secret" is straight up stupid, which isn't saying much given the mouth breather who said it. While the round mound of rebound can't articulately describe what he means I am pretty sure this is present in any sub-sect of society.
Rich people don't like to act poor for fear of being called poor, with the acception of Adam Sandler

Point being, if you perceive something as negative like acting like white kids, then you will try to be less like that. So I guess the real question is, is it really so bad to be white? I mean we have all this privilege lol
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Well to that I rebut, its a class war not a race war. I have never said otherwise, always has been and will continue to be that way forever and always. Even communism can't fight it, you know where everyone is equal and it is not about the individual but the common good, it can just hope to by making the gov't oversee EVERYTHING. Look at china and see how that experiment is going, political corruption runs that shit. Because it is our human nature to want more than we need and a need to have more than the other guy.
But for these guys to say dems are the problem it sounds like republican propaganda honestly. Especially this close to midterms, not saying they aren't in some realm of reality with what they are saying but they should just say politicians in general not dem or repub. They obviously can't read behind the lines and see that our gov't as a whole is controlled by private interests and big bank accounts. To say otherwise is borderline ignorance.
 
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Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
Okay...got it. These guys = borderline ignorance, Barkley = straight up stupid, and E T = self hating black man.

Maybe Al Sharpton is more your thing?

Even communism can't fight it......[snip]......for these guys to say dems are the problem it sounds like republican propaganda honestly.
Well, of course ! Propaganda. Republican propaganda. :shock: They probably handed out some cash to those brothers [and some crack], handed them a script, and rolled the cameras. Those bastids ! :cuss:

I guess when not even communism can fight the war, all is truly lost. Thanks for tossing another log on the fire.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Okay...got it. These guys = borderline ignorance, Barkley = straight up stupid, and E T = self hating black man.

Maybe Al Sharpton is more your thing?
That last videos script reads like a smear campaign on dems is all I was saying with the propaganda line. They say a small snippit about repubs and it really isnt as scathing as the rest of the video where they continue to say democrats like 10 times. And god no I hate that race baiter. So I am gonna be honest Amos, can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not because the context can be misread online but that sharpton line really pissed me off.If you are saying my thinking is a kin to his then you clearily haven't been reading what I wrote. Sharpton would want my ass on a pike for implying that I have not benefited in life from being white.
Point being, if you perceive something as negative like acting like white kids, then you will try to be less like that. So I guess the real question is, is it really so bad to be white? I mean we have all this privilege lol
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
I guess when not even communism can fight the war, all is truly lost. Thanks for tossing another log on the fire.
If you are meaning to jab at my seemingly no stance on gov't here are my thoughts. At this day and age I do not think that it is unreasonable to aim for a true and pure democracy, fuck representatives. I am talking about (somehow) educating our nation as a whole on the issues that we face in society and voting on it and majority rules. I am sure it would not be an easy undertaking but we can have start up funds for this project from all the unemployed useless politicians:mrgreen:. I know it is a utopian view on politics but it is the only way I could see the gov't actually working for its people, as it should.
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Let me play the game you want to play by your rules amos.

Recognizing race plays a role in the experience of many of our whiteness(for good or negative)= bleeding heart liberal, white apologist (is that really a thing? I know many white folks against racism and racists ideology yet non have apologized for being white, but I've never met anyone who's apologized for their race...). I must have missed the memo where us white folks gather around and send out hallmark cards apologizing for our whiteness.

Yet prop up a black man (take note how few times it's a black woman too, but I'm sure sexism doesn't exist in your world either) saying these struggles are not due to racism and racism isn't a thing. And we are collectively as a society suppose to take these people who have overall not necessarily had the same shared experience due to their talent, unrelated mind you to the topic they seem to be discussing and calling that out as bullshit, or Uncle Tom in nature are suppose to take their world view?

I don't speak for the black experience, I haven't lived it. I know enough people to know that my middle class white experience is vastly different than many people of colors experience based on the opportunities ive had yet others have had to fight for. I know the "white middle class" (which gets to a class issue that natro brought up, as race and class are correlated) is the default, missing entirely the point we've reached a point that it is on the decline. Not necessarily the white part but the middle class part. A couple rich outliers in the black community, a spokesman or woman is not.
 

Amos Otis

Well-Known Member
That last videos script reads like a smear campaign on dems is all I was saying with the propaganda line. They say a small snippit about repubs and it really isnt as scathing as the rest of the video where they continue to say democrats like 10 times.
LOL. Apparantly, they're emphasizing a point. Doncha think? But it's not your point, so trash it any way you can. Why not just take them as people w/ honest convictions and opinions? Do you know better than them on the topic?


If you are meaning to jab at my seemingly no stance on gov't here are my thoughts. At this day and age I do not think that it is unreasonable to aim for a true and pure democracy, fuck representatives. I am talking about (somehow) educating our nation as a whole on the issues that we face in society and voting on it and majority rules. I am sure it would not be an easy undertaking but we can have start up funds for this project from all the unemployed useless politicians:mrgreen:. I know it is a utopian view on politics but it is the only way I could see the gov't actually working for its people, as it should.
I'm sorry....I deal in this thing called reality. For all the feel good vibes of your utopian dream, the odds of it happening is somewhere between

zero and forget-about-it.

Let me play the game you want to play by your rules amos.
Okay...but it looks like you need a copy of my rules, and I need a definition of the 'game'. :?:
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Well your game is to prop up a black man as if he is some spokesperson for black people. A person who played sports, someone who has (I guess, I don't know how good he was) talent at a game. Not someone who's studied these issues, not someone who is in the norm, he is an outlier. Not to say his experience isn't sincere or his beliefs are not, but someone who certainly has had a cushy life and not necessarily is in touch with the struggles and issues facing others.

I can at least agree with you on Sharpton. That opportunist drives me crazy, and I still can't figure out why anyone gave him a TV show.
 

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Dude I said they were on the right track eith their blame I just dont think they have gotten to the station yet you feel? They are making to much about one political party and drawing lines so to me yes it looks like they keep saying democrats throughout the video seemingly trying to make it about dems. When they could have finished it with no elected official has their interests at heart. Atleast the dems try to understand the middle/lower class while republicans continie to alienate them.

The reason for stating that was my ideal gov't, its an ideal not a prediction for the future. There inlies the difference that you apparently didnt see. That is what I would like to see, but short of a 2nd revolution and downfall pf the federal gov't. So ya its a pipe dream.
But can you say you are happy with the current state of things under our broken 2 party system? What would your dream gov't look like amos? No gov't?
 

TonightYou

Well-Known Member
Dude I said they were on the right track eith their blame I just dont think they have gotten to the station yet you feel? They are making to much about one political party and drawing lines so to me yes it looks like they keep saying democrats throughout the whole video.
My reason for stating that was my ideal gov't, its an ideal not a prediction for the future. There inlies the difference that you apparently didnt see, that is what I would like to see, but short of a 2nd revolution and downfall pf the federal gov't. So ya its a pipe dream.
But can you say you are happy with the current state of things under our broken 2 party system? What would your dream gov't look like amos? No gov't?
Amos seems to have an issue with anything grey. Very binary means of trying to understand the world around us to be honest. Kinda like self handicapping.

I'm a Democratic Party member (big surprise right?) But not because they really represent me, but because in a two party system, it's the rules of the game. At least my party stands for things I believe in (equality, women's rights, social safety net, workers rights) even if at times it is simply lip service. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Democrats don't have a good record of having a back bone, but really the only candidates that represent my views are Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and Barney Frank.

I can't back a party or conservatism ideology when it fails basic civil rights, and has a failed economic understanding (lol look at Kansas and how fucked it is). Both sidea have issues but one at least is working towards goals I can support and get behind
 
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