political myths

[Padawanbater2]

They are made up of people.

How can individuals have a right to do something, and in a country with freedom of association, lose that right if they exercise it collectively.

No one is saying corporations are people, they're saying corporations are made up of people who have rights.

So are unions, book clubs, baseball teams, and a whole host of other organizations we don't give constitutional rights to based on the fact they're made up of people.

Corporations who spend millions financing campaigns are not exercising their rights collectively. It's one person or a small group of people utilizing the collective power of the corporation to influence politicians to benefit said corporation or the industry it's in.

That's the actual argument, that corporations are people and therefore deserve the same constitutional rights as people.

I agree with the statement "corporations are made up of people" but I disagree that they deserve equal constitutional rights as people.

 

[UncleBuck]

Dispensaries are not individuals, the individuals in the dispensary are being prosecuted, not the dispensary itself

he's not prosecuting individuals as in people just using MMJ, he's prosecuting exactly the people he said he would: those who are running dispensaries and are not comopliant with their state's laws.

"State compliant" means not superseding the federal government, which subverts CA initiative Prop. 215

So, in reality, even if a state votes rec. legal, like WA & CO, the Fed says it's illegal. So technically, yes, you're right, but it's a slimy politician tactic used to ensure votes, and I know you're smart enough to know that. "Technically yes, but actually no" is still no when he said 'yes' during his campaign.

ignore the federal illegality.

every dispensary shut down was well out of compliance with state laws.

if the righties had an example, they'd have posted it by now.

Do you have a specific quote you could cite?

"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," Obama said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana -- and the reason is, because it's against federal law."

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

yeah, it's called history. look it up.

To be clear, what you're saying is that DA's and AG's are going above executive demands?

some have. one specific area i pointed to was in san diego. local DA ignored the orders given by obama and went busting dispensaries anyway.

His actions don't matter when he appoints DEA directors who refuse to answer what is more dangerous, meth/heroin or marijuana. Similar to how he can campaign to the end of the earth about how he disagrees with fast lanes while simultaneously appointing a goddamn Comcast slut as FEC commissioner, his actions speak much louder than his bullshit words. Watch his actions, ignore his words. He's a piece of political shit bought and sold to the highest bidder, just like every president we've had for 7 goddamn decades. You of all people on this forum should recognize and acknowledge that.



I don't doubt the progress that has taken place under Obama, but I absolutely don't attribute it to him, either. He's an obstacle in the way of full legality.

his actions have been the most cannabis friendly of any president ever.

and still people bitch.

 

[UncleBuck]

Multi-year ice starts with single year ice. We know it is hard to be wrong and even harder to admit it... You have time, things are not going to get better for the global warming crowd.

Also, by saying 'the artic is in trouble' you are assuming the current state of the arctic is the standard which would be assuming alot eh?

maybe of we start a forest fire in bolivia it will cool things down in the arctic as well as the entire rest of the globe.

 

[Doer]

he's not prosecuting individuals as in people just using MMJ, he's prosecuting exactly the people he said he would: those who are running dispensaries and are not comopliant with their state's laws.


ignore the federal illegality.

every dispensary shut down was well out of compliance with state laws.

if the righties had an example, they'd have posted it by now.


"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," Obama said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana -- and the reason is, because it's against federal law."


yeah, it's called history. look it up.


some have. one specific area i pointed to was in san diego. local DA ignored the orders given by obama and went busting dispensaries anyway.


his actions have been the most cannabis friendly of any president ever.

and still people bitch.

They just set some rather draconian limits in San Jose. And the requirements were such that there were only 50 applicants, and they only expect 30 at the most to be approved.

The rental space for a Clinic is now $40K / month.

 

[SmokeyDan]

Pada, you don't have to convince me that letting corporations (and unions for that matter) spend large amounts of cash to influence elections is a bad thing, it is that barring it has no basis in law with the present constitution.

I would support an amendment classifying them as seperate entities unable to do all that stuff.

Baseball teams and book clubs could do all the same shit now

 

[SmokeyDan]

[QUOTE="UncleBuck, post: 10988128, member: 251367"]


his actions have been the most cannabis friendly of any president ever.

and still people bitch.[/QUOTE]
So most of the time you bitch about people like Paul or whomever because although their policies would be a step toward what you like they don't go all the way.

Yet here Obama gets your support because he isn't throwing them all in prison?

Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[UncleBuck]

They just set some rather draconian limits in San Jose. And the requirements were such that there were only 50 applicants, and they only expect 30 at the most to be approved.

The rental space for a Clinic is now $40K / month.

i bet people will still be lining up for those spots.

 

[UncleBuck]

So most of the time you bitch about people like Paul or whomever because although their policies would be a step toward what you like they don't go all the way.

rend pawl's policies would not be a step in the right direction.

no need to lie for your neo-confederate buddy, bignbushy.

 

[Doer]

i bet people will still be lining up for those spots.

The bidding is up to $50K on some spaces, I just heard on the radio. No shortage of penny dab, re-sellers that cut profit for all including themselves. Very short supply of zoned space/willing landlords. The main thing that passed the City Council, is each clinic has to grow it's own.

No more Humboldt County importing.

 

[Harrekin]

The bidding is up to $50K on some spaces, I just heard on the radio. No shortage of penny dab, re-sellers that cut profit for all including themselves. Very short supply of zoned space/willing landlords. The main thing that passed the City Council, is each clinic has to grow it's own.

No more Humboldt County importing.

Could be either amazingly good or horribly wrong for consumers.

 

[SmokeyDan]

rend pawl's policies would not be a step in the right direction.

no need to lie for your neo-confederate buddy, bignbushy.

Im not talking about his whole policy package, just his desire to reduce the penalties. Which is the same as selective prosecution by Obama.

You take up for Obama because he let's some break the law just a little,and condemn Paul for wanting to punish them less.

Not very consistent of you.

 

[Doer]

The place I go is way ahead of the game. We are a co-opt of growers. We donate produce. The Co-opt sells the produce and we are distributed a cash amount based on our participation in the Co-operative activity.

Basically, we buy from us wholesale. We sell to us retail. Fuck Yeah!

 

[Padawanbater2]

he's not prosecuting individuals as in people just using MMJ, he's prosecuting exactly the people he said he would: those who are running dispensaries and are not comopliant with their state's laws.

""I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws [on medical marijuana]," Obama promised in 2008, according to an earlier Rolling Stone report. But Attorney General Eric Holder announced in 2010 that federal authorities would continue to prosecute individuals for marijuana possession, despite its legalized status in some states.

Since then, the administration has unleashed an interagency cannabis crackdown that goes beyond anything seen under the Bush administration, with more than 100 raids, primarily on California pot dispensaries, many of them operating in full compliance with state laws. Since October 2009, the Justice Department has conducted more than 170 aggressive SWAT-style raids in 9 medical marijuana states, resulting in at least 61 federal indictments, according to data compiled by Americans for Safe Access, an advocacy group.

Speaking with Rolling Stone, the president tried to explain his original comments, claiming that the recent pressure on dispensaries and providers was in line with his intent.

"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," Obama said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana -- and the reason is, because it's against federal law."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/obama-marijuana-raids-rolling-stone_n_1451744.html

He said in '08 he "..wouldn't use Justice Department resources", then said "..we were not going to prioritize prosecutions"

Is he using Justice Department resources prosecuting individuals or not? If he is, he lied

every dispensary shut down was well out of compliance with state laws.

"Los Angeles, Jan. 17, 2007. DEA agents raid eleven LA-area cannabis dispensaries, including 5 in West Hollywood, which were operating in accordance with a local dispensary ordinance. Products and cash seized, no arrests. Local governments surprised by the raid, which was denounced by West Hollywood officials."

http://www.canorml.org/costs/federal_medical_marijuana_cases_resolved#raided

Many of the raids were conducted on dispensaries in full accordance with state law

"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana," Obama said. "I never made a commitment that somehow we were going to give carte blanche to large-scale producers and operators of marijuana -- and the reason is, because it's against federal law."

That's not what he said in '08 though. He said he wouldn't use Justice Department resources at all, he said nothing at all about prioritizing prosecutions. I even posted the video of him actually saying that himself.

yeah, it's called history. look it up.

You made the claim that the increase in raids from the Obama administration is because there are more dispensaries, so show me the numbers that allow you to make that claim

How many dispensaries were there under the Bush administration and how many raids did they conduct, and how many dispensaries are there under the Obama administration and how many raids have they conducted?

his actions have been the most cannabis friendly of any president ever.

and still people bitch.

That's a very odd claim to make when the Obama administration has raided more medical marijuana dispensaries than any other president ever

 

[UncleBuck]

Im not talking about his whole policy package, just his desire to reduce the penalties. Which is the same as selective prosecution by Obama.

You take up for Obama because he let's some break the law just a little,and condemn Paul for wanting to punish them less.

Not very consistent of you.

pawl doesn't want to punish people less, his "no mandatory minimums" bill doesn't even get rid of mandatory minimums.

 

[UncleBuck]

""I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws [on medical marijuana],"

Is he using Justice Department resources prosecuting individuals or not?

you forgot about the second part of the sentence.

"Los Angeles, Jan. 17, 2007. DEA agents raid eleven LA-area cannabis dispensaries, including 5 in West Hollywood, which were operating in accordance with a local dispensary ordinance. Products and cash seized, no arrests. Local governments surprised by the raid, which was denounced by West Hollywood officials."

http://www.canorml.org/costs/federal_medical_marijuana_cases_resolved#raided

Many of the raids were conducted on dispensaries in full accordance with state law

check the date there. 2007.

not one single raid on a state compliant dispensary under obama has been shown to me. all have turned out to be outside the state laws.

How many dispensaries were there under the Bush administration and how many raids did they conduct, and how many dispensaries are there under the Obama administration and how many raids have they conducted?

hard to say an exact number, but just look at the laws that allow dispensaries. the vast, overwgelming majority of them went into effect in the same election cycle that took obama into office.

i'll look up state by state after i cook dinner.

 

[Padawanbater2]

you forgot about the second part of the sentence.

I posted the second quote in my previous post

In '08 he said:

"I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws [on medical marijuana],"

Then in '12 he said:

"What I specifically said was that we were not going to prioritize prosecutions of persons who are using medical marijuana,"

So he lied about what he said in '08. He didn't say anything about prioritizing prosecutions, he flat out said he wouldn't use Justice Department resources to prosecute anyone in accordance with state law, period.

Look, I know you support the guy, but by not holding these people accountable for the things they say it lets them get away with more shit that fucks us over

 

[UncleBuck]

he flat out said he wouldn't use Justice Department resources to prosecute anyone in accordance with state law, period.

and he hasn't.

show me a dispensary bust under obama. all have been onnon-compliant ones. every last one so far that i've seen.

 

[Padawanbater2]

and he hasn't.

show me a dispensary bust under obama. all have been onnon-compliant ones. every last one so far that i've seen.

"A law enforcement officer walks past a pile of marijuana seized during a raid at Swiss Medical Industries in Boulder, Colo., Thursday, Nov. 21, 2013. The U.S. Attorney's Office says the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigations unit and the Drug Enforcement Administration are involved. Spokesman Jeff Dorschner says that the operation is in accordance with recent Justice Department's guidance on marijuana enforcement. "

http://www.summitdaily.com/news/marijuana/9016947-113/marijuana-colorado-state-businesses


"But a note in Dorschner's statement seems to claim that today's raids are in accordance with the Cole memo: "Although we cannot at this time discuss the substance of this pending investigation, the operation under way today comports with the Department's recent guidance regarding marijuana enforcment matters."

"As this is an on-going investigation, no additional information will be made available," Dorschner's statement concludes.

"The Justice Department said it would respect states' rights to regulate marijuana, and that it would not go after businesses as long as they are complying with state laws," said Mason Tvert of the Marijuana Policy Project. "We hope they are sticking to their word and not interfering with any state-regulated, law-abiding businesses.

http://hemp.org/news/content/colorado-federal-agents-and-denver-cops-raiding-dispensaries

 

[UncleBuck]

"A law enforcement officer walks past a pile of marijuana seized during a raid at Swiss Medical Industries in Boulder, Colo., Thursday, Nov. 21, 2013. The U.S. Attorney's Office says the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigations unit and the Drug Enforcement Administration are involved. Spokesman Jeff Dorschner says that the operation is in accordance with recent Justice Department's guidance on marijuana enforcement. "

http://www.summitdaily.com/news/marijuana/9016947-113/marijuana-colorado-state-businesses


"But a note in Dorschner's statement seems to claim that today's raids are in accordance with the Cole memo: "Although we cannot at this time discuss the substance of this pending investigation, the operation under way today comports with the Department's recent guidance regarding marijuana enforcment matters."

"As this is an on-going investigation, no additional information will be made available," Dorschner's statement concludes.

"The Justice Department said it would respect states' rights to regulate marijuana, and that it would not go after businesses as long as they are complying with state laws," said Mason Tvert of the Marijuana Policy Project. "We hope they are sticking to their word and not interfering with any state-regulated, law-abiding businesses.

http://hemp.org/news/content/colorado-federal-agents-and-denver-cops-raiding-dispensaries

funneling the money to cartels.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2013/11/marijuana_dea_pot_raids_colorado_tony_montana.php

 

[Padawanbater2]

funneling the money to cartels.

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2013/11/marijuana_dea_pot_raids_colorado_tony_montana.php

Bad example, what about this one?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/10/04/906271/meet-the-montana-lobbyist-convincted-of-a-federal-crime-for-working-to-make-medical-marijuana-safer/