Do I need to cut Roots Organic 707?

[Jah348]

I just called my local garden center to ask about what soil they had. I always wanted Roots Organic, but haven't heard about the 707 variety yet. The woman on the phone had said that I should cut it with promix or something of the like, because it can be too intense for younger plants. It's too strong and would result in nute burn. My problem with cutting it with something else is that it would ruin the point of getting organic soil in the first place, am I right? So is cutting 707 with something else really necessary?

(better yet is there a different (better) soil that you would recommend)

 

[hyroot]

I just called my local garden center to ask about what soil they had. I always wanted Roots Organic, but haven't heard about the 707 variety yet. The woman on the phone had said that I should cut it with promix or something of the like, because it can be too intense for younger plants. It's too strong and would result in nute burn. My problem with cutting it with something else is that it would ruin the point of getting organic soil in the first place, am I right? So is cutting 707 with something else really necessary?

(better yet is there a different (better) soil that you would recommend)

707 is more geared for environments where the soil needs hold moisture longer. It acts the same as the other roots soil. Its not to strong. Don't wast your money on bagged soil. Get a bale of peat moss, bale of coco, and 2 cu ft pumice, 2 cuft worm castings and 1 cu ft of compost and mix it together. There you have 13 cu ft of base soil. Then mix in your nutes whether it be the super soil recipe or cootz recipe.

Read this thread

https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/


start a worm bin too. make your own vermicompost.

 

[Jah348]

That sounds like a complicated method to avoid an extremely cheap expense....

 

[hyroot]

That sounds like a complicated method to avoid an extremely cheap expense....

Not really . Depends on how much soil you need. With bagged soil you still add worm castings, compost, and nutrients. Then cook for 2 months. If you want at least 10 cu ft. Which is not much at all. With bagged soil you will spend 3 times more money.

I do 10 gal pots. Thats about 1 cu ft per 10 gal pot.

Peat (6 cu ft) - $12
coco ( 3 cu ft) -$10
Pumice (2 cu ft) - $10
Compost (1cu ft) - $5
Worm castings ( 2 cu ft) - $22
13 cu ft - $59

7 bags of 707 - 10.5 cu ft - $119
compost - $5
castings - $22
13.5 cu ft - $144

nutes shouldn't be more than $45

 

[Pattahabi]

That sounds like a complicated method to avoid an extremely cheap expense....

Jah, bagged soil is not your friend. Hyroot and I might disagree on a few of the ingredients, but the basic principle is the same. This is the recipe myself and many others use and is what is called a Coot's mix.

33% Sphagnum Peat Moss
33% Aeration
33% High Quality EWC and/or Vermicompost
(some poeple run 50%/25%/25% Ratios)

To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:

1/2 cup organic Neem meal
1/2 cup organic Kelp meal
1/2 cup Crab meal

4 cups of some minerals – rock dust (See Below)

The Rock Dust Recipe
4x – Glacial Rock Dust
1x – Oyster Shell Powder – the standard product from San Francisco Bay
1x – Basalt
1x -- Gypsum

Depending on what you have available some adjustments can be made.

Peace!
P-

 

[ZoBudd]

I just called my local garden center to ask about what soil they had. I always wanted Roots Organic, but haven't heard about the 707 variety yet. The woman on the phone had said that I should cut it with promix or something of the like, because it can be too intense for younger plants. It's too strong and would result in nute burn. My problem with cutting it with something else is that it would ruin the point of getting organic soil in the first place, am I right? So is cutting 707 with something else really necessary?

(better yet is there a different (better) soil that you would recommend)

Ingredients: Coarse peat, coco fiber, compost, perlite, pumice, worm castings, bat guano, fish bone meal, soybean meal, feather meal and kelp meal.

I used Roots 707 for 2 grows and it worked fine. I wouldn't use it to start seeds or root clones. but I transplanted 2 week old seedlings into it with no problem. Always better to mix your own. The cost of all those bags sneaks up on ya. Trust me!!!

An alternative to Roots 707 is Fox Farms Happy Frog.

 

[Jah348]

I take it we're all in different leagues here.Nutes are the only thing that I add to my soil. I require roughly 6 gal of soil, and don't know of where to get any of the ingredients you guys are talking about. Pattahabi I have literally never heard of the ingredients you're mentioning; if you made those words up I would have no idea. Maybe someday I'll make a bit of a concoction but for now I just want bagged soil that i put straight into the pot.

 

[Jah348]

I used Roots 707 for 2 grows and it worked fine. I wouldn't use it to start seeds or root clones. but I transplanted 2 week old seedlings into it with no problem.

An alternative to Roots 707 is Fox Farms Happy Frog.

thank you

 

[CaretakerDad]

Just a heads up on the Roots soil. If you use enough and live close enough to Eugene Oregon you can buy it by the pallet and have it drop shipped to your driveway. I live about 400 miles away and got my last pallet (60 bags) for about $14/bag. Shipping gets cheaper with each additional pallet delivered at the same time.

PS You will have to make your purchase through a local Eugene hydro shop that they will recommend as they do not sell directly to individual customers. They were very helpful as was the hydro shop.

 

[hyroot]

I take it we're all in different leagues here.Nutes are the only thing that I add to my soil. I require roughly 6 gal of soil, and don't know of where to get any of the ingredients you guys are talking about. Pattahabi I have literally never heard of the ingredients you're mentioning; if you made those words up I would have no idea. Maybe someday I'll make a bit of a concoction but for now I just want bagged soil that i put straight into the pot.

down to earth makes all those nutes from the cootz mix. Or any nursery should have them in stock too. I use the same nutes. Check the recycled organic living soil thread at the top of this organic section. It's a sticky thread.

 

[Pattahabi]

down to earth makes all those nutes from the cootz mix. Or any nursery should have them in stock too. I use the same nutes. Check the recycled organic living soil thread at the top of this organic section. It's a sticky thread.

Just a side note, be careful with Down to Earth products. They don't actually make anything, they are just a repacker. I also noticed some of their ingredients are not omri or usda organic listed. While you could certainly use some in a pinch, by all means source better if you can.

Hands down, neem products from neemresource.com. DTE version is not comparable.

P-

 

[hyroot]

Just a side note, be careful with Down to Earth products. They don't actually make anything, they are just a repacker. I also noticed some of their ingredients are not omri or usda organic listed. While you could certainly use some in a pinch, by all means source better if you can.

Hands down, neem products from neemresource.com. DTE version is not comparable.

P-

dte is a family owned business out of oregon. Their truckers are even family. I don't know anything about repacking. Thats what I've used. Omri doesn't mean anything. You can buy an omri rating.

 

[Pattahabi]

dte is a family owned business out of oregon. Their truckers are even family. I don't know anything about repacking. Thats what I've used. Omri doesn't mean anything. You can buy an omri rating.

I hear ya on the omri. Trust me, DTE don't mine their own azomite and don't dry their own kelp. The one thing I noticed is their box of alfalfa meal has no certification at all. That tends to worry me a bit.

P-

 

[Pattahabi]

Hyroot, this is from Coot on the repacking of kelp:

rrog

My bad – I failed to consider that there are companies re-packing the Acadian Seaplants’ material under their labels – that’s how the fertilizer industry works. That’s kelp meal under Epsoma’s label.

Down-To-Earth also has a box with their label and I believe Dr. Earth and I’m sure others that distribute in specific geographical areas. For example, Epsoma is a fairly new arrival to the PNW but I’d seen the name pop up for several years. The brand name on a bag of any fertilizer sold at the retail level is meaningless – they all source from 2 major brokers and almost no one packs their own. It’s all out-sourced to a handful of companies which has been the industry standard going back to the 1920′s, i.e. it’s not a new business model.

As long as the label reads “Kelp Meal” then you have the correct product. The other identifier is Ascophyllum nodosum which is the Botanical name for the species of kelp harvested and processed by Maxicrop & Acadian Seaplants.

Maxicrop packs straight kelp meal and is available but it comes at a higher price over Acadian Seaplants due to transportation charges getting it to the East Coast from Norway. Both companies harvest the same species from the North Atlantic – Maxicrop built their plant in Norway 62 years ago and Acadian Seaplants began operations in 1981.

The Seaweed Site – the most comprehensive web site I could find on marine algae: species, comparing differences between brown, green and red seaweeds, etc.

CC

Peace!
P-

 

[hyroot]

I hear ya on the omri. Trust me, DTE don't mine their own azomite and don't dry their own kelp. The one thing I noticed is their box of alfalfa meal has no certification at all. That tends to worry me a bit.

P-

none of the companies dry their own kelp. It all comes from the Norwegian sea. It's a bunch of farmer / fisherman that do it.

 

[Pattahabi]

none of the companies dry their own kelp. It all comes from the Norwegian sea. It's a bunch of farmer / fisherman that do it.

Hopefully this will help, Coot just posted this:

RE: Epsoma

All and I mean all dry fertilizers are packed by a handful of companies. This isn't anything new as it goes back over 90 years, i.e. it's standard practice. The cost of setting up a mixing operation for fertilizers requires a huge expense relative to air quality, worker safety, etc.

The packing houses source their materials through Wilbur-Ellis which grosses over $1 billion a year. They sell the various ingredients for both organic and conventional fertilizers. So the name on the box or bag doesn't really make much of a difference.

The other thing to consider perhaps is that unlike processed foods where the list of ingredients are in the order of the quantity of a specific ingredient as it should be. Fertilizers are not required to list things in this order - doesn't matter. So if 'organic alfalfa meal' is a barn burner then that will be at the top of the listing and so on.

Here's another way they dick around with these labels and I'll use Langbeinite as a good example. This mineral compound was discovered in Germany in 1891 and is named for A. Langbein who discovered and identified this material. Not untypical for the late 19th Century.

It is mined in the Upper Midwest around the Great Lakes and the company that controls this is K-MAG and that is the name they use for commercial and wholesale customers. Then a few years ago they set up a company for the retail market called Sul-Po-Mag which you might have seen in a dry fertilizer mix. Okay - that's all cool and stuff.

But chemists don't want all of this malarkey - they want to call it what it is which is Sulfate of Potash Magnesia (Sulfur, Potash and Magnesium) - think Epsom salts with a big hit of Potash - LMAO!!!