Amos Otis
Well-Known Member
LOL. Gimme a break.....
Quantum Kush 38% THC?
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TonightYou
Well-Known Member
Pass it Around
Well-Known Member
Oh suzzannna won't you moan for me, I know that your used to 12" but I got only 3!
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Gonna need some credible facts, here. AKA - not the UN.
As I recall, prior to going in, the intelligence was supported by Germany and England, as well as having bipartisan support.
Canada went to war with the United States in Afghanistan, but not Iraq. That should say something ..... unless you believe that Canada was privy to some super secret intel that Bush/Cheney weren't? Canada is known for their military and espionage prowess.
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natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
What I think of every time I hear that they are gonna use drones lol
Iraq does not want foreign troops involved in the matter from my understanding, so drone strikes and sending military aid seems to be the only options on the table to combat IS. Heard something about them training the Iraq army but IDK if that plan will come to fruition or not.
Amos Otis
Well-Known Member
TY, I appreciate the debate only as long as you stay somewhat grounded in reality.
It doesn't tell me anything, stOw, and I promise I'm not simply being contrary. I'm open to being corrected, but correct me with facts.Canada went to war with the United States in Afghanistan, but not Iraq. That should say something ..... unless you believe that Canada was privy to some super secret intel that Bush/Cheney weren't? Canada is known for their military and espionage prowess.
Show me where Canada made any statements disputing this intelligence before the military action was taken. Remember, the case was made in front of the United Nations, and none of the allies disputed it.
One thing I am curious about: I posted 5 items taken from the news today, that IMO should be cause for some concern. Alarm, actually. Watch the news, and look at the eyes of the 'experts' weighing in on the level of dangers - many using the phrase 'threat never seen before'.
Yet, this conversation went immediately to 'blame Bush' ....as if by doing so, today's threats will magically disappear.
It might be time to quit looking for the culprit that fkkked Iraq. The baby has dropped, and it's the evil spawn that is determined to kill you - or convert you. I don't think you can opt out by declaring yourself 'non-religious'.....
BTW - you have heard about the teenage guy murdered at random by a militant jihadist - who killed three others before him, right? Good looking kid. Called his mom to say he was on his way home, but then ran into Islamic revenge at a stop light. Here. In the USA.
There are people who never think they're vulnerable. Probably that kids family felt that way....a couple of days ago.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
I was stuck in traffic and was being humorous.TY, I appreciate the debate only as long as you stay somewhat grounded in reality.
It doesn't tell me anything, stOw, and I promise I'm not simply being contrary. I'm open to being corrected, but correct me with facts.
Show me where Canada made any statements disputing this intelligence before the military action was taken. Remember, the case was made in front of the United Nations, and none of the allies disputed it.
One thing I am curious about: I posted 5 items taken from the news today, that IMO should be cause for some concern. Alarm, actually. Watch the news, and look at the eyes of the 'experts' weighing in on the level of dangers - many using the phrase 'threat never seen before'.
Yet, this conversation went immediately to 'blame Bush' ....as if by doing so, today's threats will magically disappear.
It might be time to quit looking for the culprit that fkkked Iraq. The baby has dropped, and it's the evil spawn that is determined to kill you - or convert you. I don't think you can opt out by declaring yourself 'non-religious'.....
BTW - you have heard about the teenage guy murdered at random by a militant jihadist - who killed three others before him, right? Good looking kid. Called his mom to say he was on his way home, but then ran into Islamic revenge at a stop light. Here. In the USA.
There are people who never think they're vulnerable. Probably that kids family felt that way....a couple of days ago.
And there really is no debate about how close Bush and Blair were. It's really well documented and wouldn't be surprised if even Wikipedia mentioned it.
Point being, this is someone else's mess that we now have to clean up. You can't force democracy on people that don't want it. It's easy to over throw a government, it's much harder to replace it; particularly when you consider multiple factions with different ideology.
Pass it Around
Well-Known Member
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
ISIS would no longer be a threat if US allies and via proxy the US stopped providing them with massive financial support and weaponry.
OFC the military industrial complex which also owns the media pushes a narrative that allows for the retail of more arms - to both sides. Awesome. And Obama is now supporting arming 'moderate' rebels. The same 'moderate' rebels they were supporting in Syria that wound up being ISIS. The same moderate rebels that sold that American journalist to ISIS, who in turn cut his head off for 25 grand.
They aren't even really trying to hide that they're behind almost every messy thing happening in the middle east currently. But it's a lot easier for some to believe Muslims are just violent brutal savages. Meanwhile all the bombs the US drops will only help more extreme groups in recruiting highly pissed off people who have lost family members and friends to said bombs.
It's a real nice situation, really.
The Bergdhal thing is mostly pretty dispicable IMO. And meanwhile the US embassy - which is actually US territory - that was attacked continues to be run by those who attacked it and sit empty. But that was no big deal. OFC, that's also where the CIA was rumored to be operating and providing intelligence and training and other such things for said rebel groups mentioned above.
And don't even get me started on the situation in Ukraine which is increasingly looking more and more bleak and has very much been pushed by US interest in more war. And the reason the interest in war is so high is because the economy is about ready to implode and war is a great distraction. So yeah, there's also that.
Even what's going on in Iraq is actually about Russia and closing their sphere of influence. Good excuse to arm more rebels to do more damage to the Syrian regime (who is blocking a pipeline from Qatar to sell their liquid natural gas to Europe - thereby directly threatening Russian power and influence as they are the current LNG providers for Europe by and large).
Many people disputed the intelligence leading up to the Iraq war for very good reason. Just like intelligence over Russian actions in Ukraine is also being disputed (by former intelligence community experts including a former head of the NSA).
Here's a really outstanding article from a very Hawkish group (the Council on Foreign Relations) and the current situation in Ukraine.
Admittedly I am not really following the conversation here too close, but I've been reading today and had to get a bunch of shit off my chest.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault
This is a really long article but it's important to read.
OFC the military industrial complex which also owns the media pushes a narrative that allows for the retail of more arms - to both sides. Awesome. And Obama is now supporting arming 'moderate' rebels. The same 'moderate' rebels they were supporting in Syria that wound up being ISIS. The same moderate rebels that sold that American journalist to ISIS, who in turn cut his head off for 25 grand.
They aren't even really trying to hide that they're behind almost every messy thing happening in the middle east currently. But it's a lot easier for some to believe Muslims are just violent brutal savages. Meanwhile all the bombs the US drops will only help more extreme groups in recruiting highly pissed off people who have lost family members and friends to said bombs.
It's a real nice situation, really.
The Bergdhal thing is mostly pretty dispicable IMO. And meanwhile the US embassy - which is actually US territory - that was attacked continues to be run by those who attacked it and sit empty. But that was no big deal. OFC, that's also where the CIA was rumored to be operating and providing intelligence and training and other such things for said rebel groups mentioned above.
And don't even get me started on the situation in Ukraine which is increasingly looking more and more bleak and has very much been pushed by US interest in more war. And the reason the interest in war is so high is because the economy is about ready to implode and war is a great distraction. So yeah, there's also that.
Even what's going on in Iraq is actually about Russia and closing their sphere of influence. Good excuse to arm more rebels to do more damage to the Syrian regime (who is blocking a pipeline from Qatar to sell their liquid natural gas to Europe - thereby directly threatening Russian power and influence as they are the current LNG providers for Europe by and large).
Many people disputed the intelligence leading up to the Iraq war for very good reason. Just like intelligence over Russian actions in Ukraine is also being disputed (by former intelligence community experts including a former head of the NSA).
Here's a really outstanding article from a very Hawkish group (the Council on Foreign Relations) and the current situation in Ukraine.
Admittedly I am not really following the conversation here too close, but I've been reading today and had to get a bunch of shit off my chest.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault
This is a really long article but it's important to read.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
The fact we are calling the rebels "moderate" concern me.
We have a terrible history of arming groups, they seize power or end up getting cut off, they eventually become anti American. This has happened more than once. We are not good at picking winners, that is very well documented
We have a terrible history of arming groups, they seize power or end up getting cut off, they eventually become anti American. This has happened more than once. We are not good at picking winners, that is very well documented
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
They're just doing exactly as planned. Set up another potential military target to keep the dollars and chaos flowing. Every single action the US takes in the middle east is to further destabilization. There are very scholarly papers written about the subject that are impossible to deny. I studied Poly Sci and Econ in University in case anyone cares.
A united ME is actually a threat to the power base. They have easy access to all Oceans, many resources and a hell of a lot of very intelligent people who are hard working. United they are a threat.
A united ME is actually a threat to the power base. They have easy access to all Oceans, many resources and a hell of a lot of very intelligent people who are hard working. United they are a threat.
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
I dont think america has gone out of its way to try to ease tensions between ukraine and russia but I fail to see how we profit prolonging that conflict? Or what measures we are taking to ensure it keeps us "distrscted", most americans have no fucking clue whats going on over there atm based on my coworkers responses about it (usually confused). There is a severe undereporting of the events going on over there in the american media.
TonightYou
Well-Known Member
The issue with Russia is really complicated.
When Ukraine became a country and agreed to nuclear disarmament, NATO agreed to protected it. Now really, is NATO going to fight Russia? Particularly when the country is in chaos politically over a very ethnic Russian population?
Everyone knows Russia is being a bully. I don't think everyone understands the danger of firing a shot directly at Russians, hence why Russia is also arming proxies, when the country could end the world.
Russia isn't stupid either. Putin is a dangerous relic from the cold war, but he desires to reunite old satellite countries. The USSR was smart, when they admitted territory, USSR made sure to move ethnic Russians in the areas. This boast claims of any nation state desiring to try and reunite property with Russia
When Ukraine became a country and agreed to nuclear disarmament, NATO agreed to protected it. Now really, is NATO going to fight Russia? Particularly when the country is in chaos politically over a very ethnic Russian population?
Everyone knows Russia is being a bully. I don't think everyone understands the danger of firing a shot directly at Russians, hence why Russia is also arming proxies, when the country could end the world.
Russia isn't stupid either. Putin is a dangerous relic from the cold war, but he desires to reunite old satellite countries. The USSR was smart, when they admitted territory, USSR made sure to move ethnic Russians in the areas. This boast claims of any nation state desiring to try and reunite property with Russia
natro.hydro
Well-Known Member
Literally heard more about adrian Peterson and whats gonna happen to him more than I have heard about any world conflict this week, just to paint a small depressing picture of america as a whole atm.
We choose o distract ourselves with sports and celbrities not war silly lol
We choose o distract ourselves with sports and celbrities not war silly lol
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Russia isn't being a bully. They are being highly defensive against aggressive foreign actions. The government that was overthrown in the Ukraine was pro Russian and democratically elected. It was replaced with known Neo Nazis with Western support. They then enacted laws against the Russian language and Russian speaking people which in turn caused another revolt because they make up the majority of the country. It was also a big threat to Russian power because the Crimea is their only warm water port.
The Ukraine is not in NATO. If they were to join NATO you can bet your life that Russia will not stand back idly. They have already made many promises to retaliate. When the USSR fell they were given assurances against western expansion into the Eastern Bloc. This wasn't in writing but back room assurances mean a lot. Instead NATO aggressively expanded, building military bases along their borders and attempts to implement missile shields as well. All of this is aggressive towards Russia's interests. Russia, despite not being the power it was, is still a power and views itself as such. Powers do not sit idly by while other powers aggressively move against them. We know this from history.
It's like if China had a successful coup in Canada and enacted laws against all Americans and english speakers in the country while simultaneously gaining military support from other large powers considered threats to US power at the same time. Do yo u think the US would stand idly by if that happened? Because I don't.
Read the article I linked, it will better inform than I can.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
Bread and circuses in order to eschew political responsibility. A strategy almost as old as recorded history.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
It's simply about reducing Russia's sphere of influence and expanding the Western Sphere. It's straight up power politics. There are those who want to see WW3 happen though, make no mistake. They have been around for a while and often reside within the State Dept. Just look up the battles Kennedy and his State Dept had over the issue. If it were up to them nuclear war with Russia would have already been in the history books.
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
I think the most disgusting part of the Bergdahl thing is that the US government told the families of the journalists that they don't negotiate with terrorists*.... *when the terrorists are going to be doing something beneficial for their agenda especially.
Amos Otis
Well-Known Member
+ + + rep
Hillary to dead Benghazi family member: "We're going to get the people that made that video."
Amos Otis
Well-Known Member
I don't dispute the chumminess.
You and Hamish seem much chummier lately....[ lol ...lo siento ]...but if he turned on Genuity, would you follow your new chum into his battle? ...because of....'chumminess'?
This is what I meant by grounding your responses in the reality zone.
