ALL ABOARD!

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
"No evidence of" is definitive. Unless you have evidence, it is over and done with.



I've been aware for a long time that the designation of the CIA is to spy on foreign subjects, and that the designation of the NSA is to spy on domestic subjects. I'm sorry if this "revelation" was a surprise to you.



Unless you have evidence that it did happen, then yes, it is.
The CIA is responsible for foreign human intelligence operations and covert operations, the NSA is responsible for foreign signals collection. The NSA is not tasked to spy on US citizens without a warrant, they only analyze and store the data. It's the FBI that actually collects the data aka upstream collection.
 

TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
The CIA is responsible for foreign human intelligence operations and covert operations, the NSA is responsible for foreign signals collection. The NSA is not tasked to spy on US citizens without a warrant, they only analyze and store the data. It's the FBI that actually collects the data aka upstream collection.
Nope. The NSA has been spying on Americans for decades. Every time the government wants to violate our rights they declare that it is for the purposes of national security. It's right in their name. National Security Agency. They have very vague restrictions on what they can and can't do. They are very active in collecting information.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12333.html

"(13) Conduct of such administrative and technical support activities within and outside the United States as are necessary to perform the functions described in sections (1) through (12) above, including procurement."
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Nope. The NSA has been spying on Americans for decades. Every time the government wants to violate our rights they declare that it is for the purposes of national security. It's right in their name. National Security Agency. They have very vague restrictions on what they can and can't do. They are very active in collecting information.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12333.html

"(13) Conduct of such administrative and technical support activities within and outside the United States as are necessary to perform the functions described in sections (1) through (12) above, including procurement."
Please re-read what i wrote.



The slides snowden released were very specific about this.

Please re-read your link, specifically section 2.3 Collection of Information.

Collection within the United States shall be undertaken by the FBI except that other agencies of the Intelligence Community may also collect such information concerning present or former employees, present or former intelligence agency contractors or their present or former employees, or applicants for any such employment or contracting;
 
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TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
Please re-read what i wrote.



The slides snowden released were very specific about this.
Please read the exceutive order that I linked you which outlines the duties and capabilities of the NSA. You are talking about a single program, and a silly diagram at that.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Please read the exceutive order that I linked you which outlines the duties and capabilities of the NSA. You are talking about a single program, and a silly diagram at that.
The diagram would seem silly to someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Please re-read your link, specifically section 2.3 Collection of Information.

Collection within the United States shall be undertaken by the FBI except that other agencies of the Intelligence Community may also collect such information concerning present or former employees, present or former intelligence agency contractors or their present or former employees, or applicants for any such employment or contracting;
 
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TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
The diagram would seem silly to someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Please re-read your link, specifically section 2.3 Collection of Information.

Collection within the United States shall be undertaken by the FBI except that other agencies of the Intelligence Community may also collect such information concerning present or former employees, present or former intelligence agency contractors or their present or former employees, or applicants for any such employment or contracting;
The diagram is misleading in that the FBI was not the ONLY ones collecting data.

There's a lot more to that executive order than the few sentences you took out of context.


(b) National Security Agency, whose responsibilities shall include:
(1) Establishment and operation of an effective unified organization for signals intelligence activities, except for the delegation of operational control over certain operations that are conducted through other elements of the Intelligence Community. No other department or agency may engage in signals intelligence activities except pursuant to a delegation by the Secretary of Defense;
(2) Control of signals intelligence collection and processing activities, including assignment of resources to an appropriate agent for such periods and tasks as required for the direct support of military commanders;
(3) Collection of signals intelligence information for national foreign intelligence purposes in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
(4) Processing of signals intelligence data for national foreign intelligence purposes in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
(5) Dissemination of signals intelligence information for national foreign intelligence purposes to authorized elements of the Government, including the military services, in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
(6) Collection, processing and dissemination of signals intelligence information for counterintelligence purposes;
(7) Provision of signals intelligence support for the conduct of military operations in accordance with tasking, priorities, and standards of timeliness assigned by the Secretary of Defense. If provision of such support requires use of national collection systems, these systems will be tasked within existing guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence;
(8) Executing the responsibilities of the Secretary of Defense as executive agent for the communications security of the United States Government;
(9) Conduct of research and development to meet the needs of the United States for signals intelligence and communications security;
(10) Protection of the security of its installations, activities, property, information, and employees by appropriate means, including such investigations of applicants, employees, contractors, and other persons with similar associations with the NSA as are necessary;
(11) Prescribing, within its field of authorized operations, security regulations covering operating practices, including the transmission, handling and distribution of signals intelligence and communications security material within and among the elements under control of the Director of the NSA, and exercising the necessary supervisory control to ensure compliance with the regulations;
(12) Conduct of foreign cryptologic liaison relationships, with liaison for intelligence purposes conducted in accordance with policies formulated by the Director of Central Intelligence; and
(13) Conduct of such administrative and technical support activities within and outside the United States as are necessary to perform the functions described in sections (1) through (12) above, including procurement.

1.14The Federal Bureau of Investigation. Under the supervision of the Attorney General and pursuant to such regulations as the Attorney General may establish, the Director of the FBI shall:
(a) Within the United States conduct counterintelligence and coordinate counterintelligence activities of other agencies within the Intelligence Community. When a counterintelligence activity of the FBI involves military or civilian personnel of the Department of Defense, the FBI shall coordinate with the Department of Defense;
(b) Conduct counterintelligence activities outside the United States in coordination with the CIA as required by procedures agreed upon by the Director of Central Intelligence and the Attorney General;
(c) Conduct within the United States, when requested by officials of the Intelligence Community designated by the President, activities undertaken to collect foreign intelligence or support foreign intelligence collection requirements of other agencies within the Intelligence Community, or, when requested by the Director of the National Security Agency, to support the communications security activities of the United States Government;
 

TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
2.3Collection of Information. Agencies within the Intelligence Community are authorized to collect, retain or disseminate information concerning United States persons only in accordance with procedures established by the head of the agency concerned and approved by the Attorney General, consistent with the authorities provided by Part 1 of this Order. Those procedures shall permit collection, retention and dissemination of the following types of information:
(a) Information that is publicly available or collected with the consent of the person concerned;
(b) Information constituting foreign intelligence or counterintelligence, including such information concerning corporations or other commercial organizations. Collection within the United States of foreign intelligence not otherwise obtainable shall be undertaken by the FBI or, when significant foreign intelligence is sought, by other authorized agencies of the Intelligence Community, provided that no foreign intelligence collection by such agencies may be undertaken for the purpose of acquiring information concerning the domestic activities of United States persons;
(c) Information obtained in the course of a lawful foreign intelligence, counterintelligence, international narcotics or international terrorism investigation;
(d) Information needed to protect the safety of any persons or organizations, including those who are targets, victims or hostages of international terrorist organizations;
(e) Information needed to protect foreign intelligence or counterintelligence sources or methods from unauthorized disclosure. Collection within the United States shall be undertaken by the FBI except that other agencies of the Intelligence Community may also collect such information concerning present or former employees, present or former intelligence agency contractors or their present or former employees, or applicants for any such employment or contracting;
(f) Information concerning persons who are reasonably believed to be potential sources or contacts for the purpose of determining their suitability or credibility;
(g) Information arising out of a lawful personnel, physical or communications security investigation;
(h) Information acquired by overhead reconnaissance not directed at specific United States persons;
(i) Incidentally obtained information that may indicate involvement in activities that may violate federal, state, local or foreign laws; and
(j) Information necessary for administrative purposes.
In addition, agencies within the Intelligence Community may disseminate information, other than information derived from signals intelligence, to each appropriate agency within the Intelligence Community for purposes of allowing the recipient agency to determine whether the information is relevant to its responsibilities and can be retained by it.
2.4Collection Techniques. Agencies within the Intelligence Community shall use the least intrusive collection techniques feasible within the United States or directed against United States persons abroad. Agencies are not authorized to use such techniques as electronic surveillance, unconsented physical search, mail surveillance, physical surveillance, or monitoring devices unless they are in accordance with procedures established by the head of the agency concerned and approved by the Attorney General. Such procedures shall protect constitutional and other legal rights and limit use of such information to lawful governmental purposes. These procedures shall not authorize:

(a) The CIA to engage in electronic surveillance within the United States except for the purpose of training, testing, or conducting countermeasures to hostile electronic surveillance;

(b) Unconsented physical searches in the United States by agencies other than the FBI, except for:
(1) Searches by counterintelligence elements of the military services directed against military personnel within the United States or abroad for intelligence purposes, when authorized by a military commander empowered to approve physical searches for law enforcement purposes, based upon a finding of probable cause to believe that such persons are acting as agents of foreign powers; and
(2) Searches by CIA of personal property of non-United States persons lawfully in its possession.
(c) Physical surveillance of a United States person in the United States by agencies other than the FBI, except for:
(1) Physical surveillance of present or former employees, present or former intelligence agency contractors or their present of former employees, or applicants for any such employment or contracting; and
(2) Physical surveillance of a military person employed by a nonintelligence element of a military service.
(d) Physical surveillance of a United States person abroad to collect foreign intelligence, except to obtain significant information that cannot reasonably be acquired by other means.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
You've highlighted a lot of words, the context of which you do not understand.

Why is procurement highlighted?

You still haven't proven the designation of the NSA is to spy on domestic subjects

Or that the designation of the CIA is to spy on foreign subjects.

Do you think the CIA achieves this purely through HUMINT?
 
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londonfog

Well-Known Member
I don't care what they 'buy' for free.
They could just be more efficient.
Mom and or dad eats lobsters then cry food stamps arent enough to feed the kids.
Do you follow people around in a store to see them purchase lobster, then you follow to check out and watch how they pay ? You can't be serious. No way I'm I believing this..Pics or I call BS
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Do you follow people around in a store to see them purchase lobster, then you follow to check out and watch how they pay ? You can't be serious. No way I'm I believing this..Pics or I call BS
It all comes down to a chain email showing a receipt with lobster and steaks purchased with food stamps and then shot around the conservative echo chamber
Probably staged just like the flags in the dumpster you will see every election season right after conventions

 

sheskunk

Well-Known Member
It all comes down to a chain email showing a receipt with lobster and steaks purchased with food stamps and then shot around the conservative echo chamber
Probably staged just like the flags in the dumpster you will see every election season right after conventions

And then they starved for the rest of the month.

Your budget allows you $100 to spend on weed for the month. Do you buy the quarter of the BOMB or the ounce of the SWAG?
 

TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
You've highlighted a lot of words, the context of which you do not understand.

Why is procurement highlighted?

You still haven't proven the designation of the NSA is to spy on domestic subjects

Or that the designation of the CIA is to spy on foreign subjects.

Do you think the CIA achieves this purely through HUMINT?
Procurement means to obtain. Like collect.

It specificaly says:
These procedures shall not authorize:
(a) The CIA to engage in electronic surveillance within the United States except for the purpose of training, testing, or conducting countermeasures to hostile electronic surveillance;

but doesn't ban the NSA from doing the same? hmmm

(b) Conduct counterintelligence activities outside the United States in coordination with the CIA as required by procedures agreed upon by the Director of Central Intelligence and the Attorney General;
(c) Conduct within the United States, when requested by officials of the Intelligence Community designated by the President, activities undertaken to collect foreign intelligence or support foreign intelligence collection requirements of other agencies within the Intelligence Community, or, when requested by the Director of the National Security Agency, to support the communications security activities of the United States Government;
 

TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
(b) National Security Agency, whose responsibilities shall include:
(3) Collection of signals intelligence information for national foreign intelligence purposes in accordance with guidance from the Director of Central Intelligence
(13) Conduct of such administrative and technical support activities within and outside the United States as are necessary to perform the functions described in sections (1) through (12) above, including procurement.

Like i said, spy on domestic targets in the name of national security.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
It all comes down to a chain email showing a receipt with lobster and steaks purchased with food stamps and then shot around the conservative echo chamber
Probably staged just like the flags in the dumpster you will see every election season right after conventions

I guess I was right when I called bullshit.
 

TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
it's real.
The question is......who bought it?
Most likely someone who hates food stamps and got ahold of some to make a point
Yeah the dealers in my city that deal to low income people will give them half the value of the food stamps for drugs. For example $20 worth of weed for $40 worth of food stamps.
 

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Procurement means to obtain. Like collect.

It specificaly says:
These procedures shall not authorize:
(a) The CIA to engage in electronic surveillance within the United States except for the purpose of training, testing, or conducting countermeasures to hostile electronic surveillance;

but doesn't ban the NSA from doing the same? hmmm

(b) Conduct counterintelligence activities outside the United States in coordination with the CIA as required by procedures agreed upon by the Director of Central Intelligence and the Attorney General;
(c) Conduct within the United States, when requested by officials of the Intelligence Community designated by the President, activities undertaken to collect foreign intelligence or support foreign intelligence collection requirements of other agencies within the Intelligence Community, or, when requested by the Director of the National Security Agency, to support the communications security activities of the United States Government;
Procurement doesn't mean what you think it means in this context.

You are so outta your depth it's not funny.

Why would they use the word procurement when referring to intelligence collection?

Are case officers called core procures or core collectors?

FYI procurement relates to technology...
 

TakeTheTicket

Well-Known Member
Procurement doesn't mean what you think it means in this context.

You are so outta your depth it's not funny.

Why would they use the word procurement when referring to intelligence collection?

Are case officers called core procures or core collectors?

FYI procurement relates to technology...
Proof?
 
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