Jonny's going ditching the synthetic nutes - here's why.

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Synthetic nutrients are a wonderful thing and they produce great results, but at what cost?

We should all familiarize ourselves with a word called Eutrophication which appears to be destroying our water supplies on a large scale due to excessive synthetic nutrient run off from commercial agriculture.

Want proof?

NEW 400,000 in Ohio can't drink water
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/us/toledo-water-warning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Their water supply has been poisoned by toxic peptides called Microcystin which has the potential to kill you if ingested. So what is Microcystin and why is it in 400,000 Ohioan's drinking water?

Microcystins are toxic peptides, produced in large quantities during blooms of the bacteria genus microcystis or planktothrix cyanobacteria (i.e. the genus species Microcystis aeruginosa).[3] Cyanobacterial blooms, often called blue-green algae bloom, can cause oxygen depletion, alter food webs, posing a major threat to drinking and irrigation water supplies, and to fishing and recreational use of surface waters worldwide.[4] Cyanobacteria are one of the oldest microorganisms on Earth, predating predators, 3.5 billion years ago.[5]

Where is this shit coming from?


Formation


Culture development of prokaryotic algae microcystis aeruginosa, a photosynthesizing organism.
The microcystin producing microcystis, is a genus of freshwater cyanobacteria and is projected to thrive with warmer climate conditions, such as the rise of water temperatures or in stagnant waters, and through the process of eutrophication (oversupply of nutrients).[5] An Ohio state task force found that Lake Erie received phosphorus and more recently reactive phosphorus from crop land, due to the farming practices, and evidence suggests that in particular dissolved reactive phosphorus (from fertilizer) promotes additional growth.[24]

<<<<<< Potomac River ecosystem altered by Eutrophication.

This shit is what excessive use of synthetic nutrients are doing to our ecosystem. I for one am interested in finding a better way, so I will be investigating some more organic approaches to growing my cannabis because I feel it's a better method for the goal I'm trying to achieve; producing safe and effective medication as close to the way mother nature has done it for hundreds of millions of years. As I explore the world of organics, I will post my successes and failures as well as my end results for better or worse and we can all learn together for the better of the community.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
People doing small medical grows in their homes have with inorganic nutes has no effect on this...
Great point Huel, but my point is that if commercial farming were of an organic nature, then perhaps Ohioan's would be drinking water from their tap and enjoying a morning shower while the community would also be enjoying the fruits of an organic harvest which has prompted me to become fascinated by this anomaly. I have already recently become infatuated with the relationship our plants have with their environment and to put it quite simply; synthetic nutrients are like giving your plants a TV dinner and sure, they'll grow and produce fruit just like fast food will fill our tummy's and keep us going, but there is a better way. I'm thoroughly convinced that mother nature has already figured out the best way to grow a plant and all we have to do is listen to her; she likes it organic (i.e. as mother nature intended).

I'm not in this for money or fame; I'm in this for the best possible result that can be produced in the most natural way possible. I don't buy store bought meat anymore (straight from the farmer of my choice) and now I don't want to buy store bought nutrients, but truth be told, it will be a long time before I fully understand and master the art of organic gardening, but my learning experience will be one hell of a ride and RIU is driving this crazy train straight into enlightenment and better gardening:)
 

Huel Perkins

Well-Known Member
Probably the biggest contributor to this problem is people in residential neighborhoods fertilizing their lawns...
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Probably the biggest contributor to this problem is people in residential neighborhoods fertilizing their lawns...
That makes perfect sense to me. People buy what's cheap and easy, not necessarily what's best for the job. It's the 'Merrrrican way eh?

You should hear me in the hydro shop educating the fools at the counter trying to hawk all sorts of bull shit yet they can't even tell you what's in it. I went in to the store looking for a particular product from GH called rapid start as a root stimulator. Instead of just giving me my shit, he instead tries to sell me on another line of nutes that I don't want or need. When I told him I have the GH line up dialed in perfectly and there was no reason for me to switch, he just looked at me confused and cocked his head to the side a little bit as if what I said made no sense. So I then asked him, "What is your new line doing for you that the GH line was unable to achieve?". He had the typical uninformed hydro store employee response; "I dunno man the plants just really seem to eat it up". I laughed a little and then informed the idiot that plants don't eat anything, they make their own food through this amazing process called photosynthesis. Plants use elements to complete their metabolic processes to sustain life and grow to fruition. To this, I got no response :) I proceeded to make fun of advanced nutrients and any moron stupid enough to buy their products. And then I asked them how many corn or hydroponic tomato farmers they know using advanced nutrients. To this, I got no response :)

BTW, I have an 8th grade education. It's a sad sad world we live in. This is one of those good times to break out the medicine!
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Good for you jonny. People using synthetic fertilizers on their lawns, gardens, and yes..... basement grows all contribute to this problem.

Growing organically is the best, and safest way of going about it.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Good for you jonny. People using synthetic fertilizers on their lawns, gardens, and yes..... basement grows all contribute to this problem.

Growing organically is the best, and safest way of going about it.
I have seen the light, and it is good. Once I master the art of organic gardening, I will show as many people the easy way to do it while cutting out the hydro shop completely just like I completely cut out the local butcher with my personally inspected farm bought and processed cow that then becomes my food. There is a better way to do everything; the question is, do you want to do the best of your capabilities or do you just want to do good enough?

Good enough has never been enough for me. I want all that life has to offer while I'm stuck on this bitch called earth and that means doing the best of my capabilities.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I have seen the light, and it is good. Once I master the art of organic gardening, I will show as many people the easy way to do it while cutting out the hydro shop completely just like I completely cut out the local butcher with my personally inspected farm bought and processed cow that then becomes my food. There is a better way to do everything; the question is, do you want to do better or do you just want to do good enough?

I will be starting a thread on leaf mold at some point. The leaves in your back yard can all be turned in to a great base. Leaf mold (free), + worm castings/compost (free), + $30 worth of rice hulls will make enough soil for you to last a year. I use this same soil for 12 months, then haul it out to my veggie garden. No waste, 100% environmentally friendly ...... and the bud is fantastic grown this way.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I will be starting a thread on leaf mold at some point. The leaves in your back yard can all be turned in to a great base. Leaf mold (free), + worm castings/compost (free), + $30 worth of rice hulls will make enough soil for you to last a year. I use this same soil for 12 months, then haul it out to my veggie garden. No waste, 100% environmentally friendly ...... and the bud is fantastic grown this way.
That sounds like an ideal use of your situation and materials stow. My intentions are to research a soil / part hydro grow method utilizing layers to achieve greater oxygenation of the root zone and faster metabolism (i.e. faster growth).

What I've thought about is beginning with a good quality base soil like roots organic and then getting a bag of chunky perlite. At this point, I want to create layers to achieve the goals I mentioned above which all equates to a healthier and faster growing plant with a healthy root zone and healthy roots make healthy stems that make healthy leaves that make healthy flowers...it's so symbiotic, I absolutely love it :)

I'm not certain on the number of layers yet, but I think amending the soil with some organic material and utilizing an organic nutrient formula in conjunction with the alternating layers of perlite and organically amended organic soil will create a nice habitat for my girls' roots and we know what healthy roots do :)

Be it as it is though, I'm currently in an apartment so hauling dirt in and out got troublesome which brings me to my current grow system which is water to waste hydro utilizing a small reservoir at the bottom of a 5 gallon pail with perlite and vermiculite at a 4:1 ratio and this may very well be the best harvest I've had yet. I reduced the recommended nutrients by 25% across the board (they always tell me to use to much) and the plants are happier. I also learned how to detect and fix cal-mag deficiencies on this grow. I've been having a mystery problem that has plagued my last 2 grows around week 4-5 of flower my leaves begin to yellow and sometimes with necrosis and purple stems. I eventually found out after reading that I had a cal-mag deficiency. I dosed with cal-mag 25% under the recommended and problem solved. No further damage and the rest of the plant tissue grew vivaciously :) I then learned how vital calcium and magnesium are for the metabolic functions of the plant. I also learned they like a little dose in veg and maybe 1 or 2 doses in flower with my current tap water. Eventually I'm switching to RO, so I will have to supplement with cal-mag with every watering, but I am now better understanding my plants and what they need to survive and flourish.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
That sounds like an ideal use of your situation and materials stow. My intentions are to research a soil / part hydro grow method utilizing layers to achieve greater oxygenation of the root zone and faster metabolism (i.e. faster growth).

What I've thought about is beginning with a good quality base soil like roots organic and then getting a bag of chunky perlite. At this point, I want to create layers to achieve the goals I mentioned above which all equates to a healthier and faster growing plant with a healthy root zone and healthy roots make healthy stems that make healthy leaves that make healthy flowers...it's so symbiotic, I absolutely love it :)

I'm not certain on the number of layers yet, but I think amending the soil with some organic material and utilizing an organic nutrient formula in conjunction with the alternating layers of perlite and organically amended organic soil will create a nice habitat for my girls' roots and we know what healthy roots do :)

Be it as it is though, I'm currently in an apartment so hauling dirt in and out got troublesome which brings me to my current grow system which is water to waste hydro utilizing a small reservoir at the bottom of a 5 gallon pail with perlite and vermiculite at a 4:1 ratio and this may very well be the best harvest I've had yet. I reduced the recommended nutrients by 25% across the board (they always tell me to use to much) and the plants are happier. I also learned how to detect and fix cal-mag deficiencies on this grow. I've been having a mystery problem that has plagued my last 2 grows around week 4-5 of flower my leaves begin to yellow and sometimes with necrosis and purple stems. I eventually found out after reading that I had a cal-mag deficiency. I dosed 25% under the recommended and problem solved. No further damage and the rest of the plant growth grew vivaciously :) Solving problems is fun-damental!

You can run no-till if moving soil in and out is a problem. As I mentioned above, you can fill a container with soil and re-use that same soil for many runs. There are guys on their 8'th and 9'th generation of soil. Just chop the plant at the base when it's done, top dress some worm castings and dry amendments, and plug a new plant right in there. No dumping soil or re-mixing. Same soil, same container, new clone.
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
That makes perfect sense to me. People buy what's cheap and easy, not necessarily what's best for the job. It's the 'Merrrrican way eh?

You should hear me in the hydro shop educating the fools at the counter trying to hawk all sorts of bull shit yet they can't even tell you what's in it. I went in to the store looking for a particular product from GH called rapid start as a root stimulator. Instead of just giving me my shit, he instead tries to sell me on another line of nutes that I don't want or need. When I told him I have the GH line up dialed in perfectly and there was no reason for me to switch, he just looked at me confused and cocked his head to the side a little bit as if what I said made no sense. So I then asked him, "What is your new line doing for you that the GH line was unable to achieve?". He had the typical uninformed hydro store employee response; "I dunno man the plants just really seem to eat it up". I laughed a little and then informed the idiot that plants don't eat anything, they make their own food through this amazing process called photosynthesis. Plants use elements to complete their metabolic processes to sustain life and grow to fruition. To this, I got no response :) I proceeded to make fun of advanced nutrients and any moron stupid enough to buy their products. And then I asked them how many corn or hydroponic tomato farmers they know using advanced nutrients. To this, I got no response :)

BTW, I have an 8th grade education. It's a sad sad world we live in. This is one of those good times to break out the medicine!
you must go to the store where 941mick works,lol
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
You can run no-till if moving soil in and out is a problem. As I mentioned above, you can fill a container with soil and re-use that same soil for many runs. There are guys on their 8'th and 9'th generation of soil. Just chop the plant at the base when it's done, top dress some worm castings and dry amendments, and plug a new plant right in there. No dumping soil or re-mixing. Same soil, same container, new clone.
Okay you've got my attention now. You're telling me the dead organic matter from the previous root system will not in any way inhibit the expansion and growth of the new root system? I have limited (very) experience with dirt, so I'm outside of my area of expertise but I'm willing to learn as this sounds like an exciting possibility to utilize. Show me the way stow, I'm all ears.
 

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Okay you've got my attention now. You're telling me the dead organic matter from the previous root system will not in any way inhibit the expansion and growth of the new root system? I have limited (very) experience with dirt, so I'm outside of my area of expertise but I'm willing to learn as this sounds like an exciting possibility to utilize. Show me the way stow, I'm all ears.
thesoilguy.com
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
It doesn't make any difference if the farming is organic or not. If nutrients wash into waterways then you get blooms of microorganisms.

Eh? Synthetic nutrients are water soluble, and therefor easily washed away with runoff/rain. Dry organic nutrients break down over long periods of time, and with a sufficient CEC level in the medium stay put until the plant needs them.

What you're saying is not true at all.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
you must go to the store where 941mick works,lol
They have shit on the cheap and it's always in stock but lets face it, the 'dro shops are in it to win it like every other business and winning it means maximizing profits, so it would be bad for their business to educate people properly. People would then realize how unnecessary half the shit they sell is. Case in point, a fellow grower in my area tried to sell me a $400 12 bucket recirculating hydroponic drip system with controller bucket for a great price of $200 because it had been used. It seemed like a cool idea but I thought I'd give this passive hydro thing a try and guess what I'm doing later today? I'm returning the unnecessary $200 bucket system that I don't and will never need back to my friend who can hopefully utilize it as I find it stupid and unnecessary, but that's just me and my situation.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Eh? Synthetic nutrients are water soluble, and therefor easily washed away with runoff/rain. Dry organic nutrients break down over long periods of time, and with a sufficient CEC level in the medium stay put until the plant needs them.

What you're saying is not true at all.
Stow, some people like to accept what others say as truth, but people like you and I, we must verify and digest the information ourselves and arrive at our own conclusions; some call it a waste of time, I call it a way of life. I take nobody's word for truth because people are lazy and lie. The truth is always the truth and science never lies, only people.

BTW, anybody who makes a statement like that fella obviously has a poor understanding of the subject matter and perhaps that individual should go back to the drawing board as he / she has fundamental misunderstanding of the world in which we live. It doesn't work that way. There's right and wrong truth and lies; no in between. Find the truth, find the answer. Fuck everything else in between. As you said, commercial nutrients are water soluble so they mix and permeate the root zone to supply the plant with the elements they need due to the method of farming many commercial farms employ. An organic farm would have very different problems but polluting local bodies of water in the manner we're seeing happen in Ohio presently is most likely not going to happen. I have not farmed a commercial organic farm so I could not tell you for certain, but common sense tells you that organic solid materials are not going to just wash away into bodies of water with heavy rains, but water soluble concentrated synthetic fertilizer will. Logic and process always gets in the way of poor logic and poor hypotheses doesn't it?

Learning is FUN-DAMENTAL :)
 
Last edited:

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Okay you've got my attention now. You're telling me the dead organic matter from the previous root system will not in any way inhibit the expansion and growth of the new root system? I have limited (very) experience with dirt, so I'm outside of my area of expertise but I'm willing to learn as this sounds like an exciting possibility to utilize. Show me the way stow, I'm all ears.

Step 1: Build your soil and allow it to break down over the course of 30 days

Step 2: Fill your containers and grow your plants. This can be done with water only if you wish

Step 3: Chop you plant at harvest, apply a top dress of castings and dry amendments. I lay down a cover crop of clover and vetch which fixes atmospheric nitrogen and keeps the soil surface active with micro-organisms. I leave it like this for 3 weeks.

Step 4: Dig a little hole near the trunk of the last plant, apply mycorrhizal fungi and plug my new clone right in there. Done deal.

This "used" soil is alive with trillions of bacteria and fungi. Why throw it out? It actually gets better over time. You have a whole network of fungi that have spread out throughout the bucket helping the plant uptake nutrients that you will tie right in to when you put your new plant in there. It works so well that I'm embarrassed to say that I used to toss this great soil.
 
Top