• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

DIY LED: Mixing COB and singles?

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reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Question as per title.

I had an idea to combine a cxa3070 w/ some minimal number of these:

http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/exotic-hyper-violet-led-430nm/
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/exotic-true-violet-led-405nm/
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/deep-red-660nm/

(sidenote: ledgroupbuy finally released a "grow lamp" version of the lumia... check it out! They also have 730nm singles now...)

How would that work? How would one (me, obviously) go about combining a cxa3070 with, say, 2 of each of those violets, and 4-6 of those deep reds?

Power supply? Drivers? Optimum channel number/config?

I was thinking of having the 3070 always on, but having the violets on their own channel, and the reds on their own channel... or would it make more sense to just have everything on one channel and run the whole thing the whole time?

Cost is a factor, so i'm thinking: 3070 as a "center point," slinging photons in a small space, but modifying the overall spectrum with those listed violets and reds, preferably as physically close to the cob as possible (wondering about necessary spacing for heat reasons).
 
Positivity

Positivity

Well-Known Member
How many watts do you want for flowering? Size space?

Could be as easy as a predrilled heatsink...cxa 3070...ideal holder for cxa 3070...bjb led holder for small stars. Everything would screw in. You could run all leds at 700ma on one string in series on one driver.


Here's an example of one I just built. It's only a 96w driver at 1a and runs 1 3590 so I can only fit another star or two.

image.jpg
image.jpg image.jpg



The 700ma version could run 2 3070 at 60w combined and another 25w of single stars up to 85w. Leaving 10w for driver inefficiencys. Or get. A 120w version and have another 40w...all sorts of combinations

Also meanwell drivers which I'm not very familiar with that are cheaper than the inventronics I use.

Good luck...it's the best option. Build your own with the best parts you can find

I wouldn't worry about seperate dimming..etc...personally...if it doesn't always work it doesn't need to be there

One dimmer to control the light intensity is awesome though...very useful..
 
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R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
Positivity said:
How many watts do you want for flowering? Size space?

Could be as easy as a predrilled heatsink...cxa 3070...ideal holder for cxa 3070...bjb led holder for small stars. Everything would screw in. You could run all leds at 700ma on one string in series on one driver.


Here's an example of one I just built. It's only a 96w driver at 1a and runs 1 3590 so I can only fit another star or two.

View attachment 3216249
View attachment 3216252 View attachment 3216251



The 700ma version could run 2 3070 at 60w combined and another 25w of single stars up to 85w. Leaving 10w for driver inefficiencys. Or get. A 120w version and have another 40w...all sorts of combinations

Also meanwell drivers which I'm not very familiar with that are cheaper than the inventronics I use.

Good luck...it's the best option. Build your own with the best parts you can find

I wouldn't worry about seperate dimming..etc...personally...if it doesn't always work it doesn't need to be there

One dimmer to control the light intensity is awesome though...very useful..
Click to expand...
Well, what prompted this question was mainly the voltage/amperage differences (because i don't understand electromagnetism nearly well enough). I don't think those singles need nearly as much power, so do i need one driver for the singles and one for the cob?

My space is roughly 1m (between expected top of media and bottom of the highest the lamp can go), 18" x ~36"+ (1.5' x 3' x 1m+) I forgot the exact height measurement and it's not entirely accessible at the moment. ^^

I would prefer to keep the total power consumption of the whole setup as low as possible, but i'll throw out an arbitrary 200w limit for the sake of discussion.

Which driver were you talking about? Or does inventronics just have one line of drivers at different ratings?

SupraSPL said:
I would warn you away from those 660s though (<30% efficient). For 80 cents more you can get the very best deep reds (>40% efficient)
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1866

Also, you can get blues that are 55% efficient which I would recommend over the violets (~35%)
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Philips-Luxeon-ES-ROYAL-BLUE-3-Watt-LEDs-Luxeon-ES-Royal-Blue.htm

good luck!
Click to expand...
You're right about those 660nms, i put the cheapest ones they had in the cart for reference. I had already realized i should probably just get the slightly more expensive ones.

But why not use those violets? i was under the impression that the 3070 already has a pretty good/sufficient mid-high blue range, and was wanting to extend the spectrum a bit. Is that wrong? Is the 405-430 range not helpful/useful? And, instead of dropping the violets, should i instead add a couple blues as well? Or... they also have the 3 chip stars: http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/solderless-cree-xt-e-3up/ ...

As for blues, what about these? http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/phllips-luxeon-m-royal-blue-12-watt/
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
The CX3070 3000K has 14% blue. It is enough for flowering most varieties but if you add deep reds the overall blue % falls, so adding more 450nm or 470nm can be beneficial.

Yes those Luxeon Ms are top bin and very efficient, 63% @ 700mA dang!

Regarding violets, as far as photosynthesis goes you are much better off with 450nm because of the high efficiency and if you want to spread it a bit there are some decent 470nm (Cree XPE2 50.5% @ 700mA). Maybe violets have some other value such as changing flavor or increasing potency,but I have not experimented with that.
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
The CX3070 3000K has 14% blue. It is enough for flowering most varieties but if you add deep reds the overall blue % falls, so adding more 450nm or 470nm can be beneficial.

Yes those Luxeon Ms are top bin and very efficient, 63% @ 700mA dang!

Regarding violets, as far as photosynthesis goes you are much better off with 450nm because of the high efficiency and if you want to spread it a bit there are some decent 470nm (Cree XPE2 50.5% @ 700mA). Maybe violets have some other value such as changing flavor or increasing potency,but I have not experimented with that.
Click to expand...
Alright, so what if i went with:

1 cxa3070
2x Luxeon M
2x each violet
4x or 6x "best 660nm" (cree xpe)

What would be the best/cheapest/simplest way to power that?

Let's throw in a 120mm 12v fan for good measure (unbranded lian-li, possibly a blank yate loon, not sure)


edit: OR... should i just scrap the singles and go with 2x cxa3070? (likely the Z2... best available at the moment, AFAIK)
 
B

bondoman

Well-Known Member
did you know Philips makes a 11 Watt bulb with 8 Luxeon ES Royal Blues already mounted with driver? They're underpowered at 1+ watts, but I'm pretty sure the max on each is 3 watts. So you could pull the board out of the bulb and use a higher powered driver. 8 x $3 = $24, but the bulb is frequently found for around $10. So cheaper, already mounted, and a driver if you want one.
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
bondoman said:
did you know Philips makes a 11 Watt bulb with 8 Luxeon ES Royal Blues already mounted with driver? They're underpowered at 1+ watts, but I'm pretty sure the max on each is 3 watts. So you could pull the board out of the bulb and use a higher powered driver. 8 x $3 = $24, but the bulb is frequently found for around $10. So cheaper, already mounted, and a driver if you want one.
Click to expand...
I was not aware of that. How does the luxeon ES compare to the M?

Also, anyone make a red similar to what you mentioned? Or maybe some xml2 warm whites?
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
All these figures are based on minimum figures, 700mA and Tj 50C:

Cree XPE photo red 660nm 42.4%
Cree XTE 450nm Q04 50.6%
Cree XPE2 470nm M3 50.45%
Luxeon ES 445nm M4R 55.1%
Luxeon M 450nm E5G 62.9%
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
@reasonevangelist

You could power all of the LEDs mentioned at 700mA although it would take several strings or you could run the COB separately at 290 650 700 800 900 1050 or 1400mA cheaply. (I have not studied the violet specs in depth do they handle 700mA?)

As far as fan PSU, the really cheap wall worts are only 40-50% efficient and the high quality ones are up to 80% efficient if you run them somewhat close to their max current. Otherwise they are only 50% efficient as well. You can get them on eBay or fasttech very cheaply in a huge variety of currents and voltages. Some have adjustable voltage.
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
exotic 430nm:

Wattage: 3w
Max Drive Current: 700mA
Forward voltage (@ 700 mA): Min 3.0v Max 3.6v
Light Intensity: 880mW - 960mW
Wave Length: 425nm-430nm
Viewing angle: 120°
Color: Hyper Violet
Star Size: 20mm

exotic 405nm:

Wattage: 3w
Max Drive Current: 700mA
Forward voltage (@ 700 mA): Min 3.0v Max 3.6v
Light Intensity: 640mW - 680mW
Wave Length: 405nm
Viewing angle: 120°
Color: Hyper Violet
Star Size: 20mm

exotic deep red 660nm:

Wattage: ? 3w ? (assuming it's 3w like the others, entry missing on site)
Max Drive Current: 700mA
Forward voltage (@ 700 mA): 2.3v (doesn't show min/max like the others)
Light Intensity: 560mW @ 700mA
Dominant Wave Length: 660nm
Color: Deep Red
Star Size: 20mm

These are all rated at 700mA, but the reds apparently need less vF...

I've also noticed that some of the others on that site list being "capable of" 700mA, but they recommend running them around 560mA for some reason (guessing heat/efficiency/longevity...). They don't list that recommendation on any of these i've listed here. I would tend to assume... they're almost certainly fine at 700mA, but not above.

Those 'Cutter-XPE-10R-PR' (http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1866) you listed: do they only come pre-soldered to 1cm stars? Kinda tiny. ^^


So the obvious question here is:

Would it be better to build a custom extended spectrum cxa3070 Z2 with these extra singles? Or would it be better to just use 2x cxa3070 Z2? Talking cost versus performance. Since we can't currently quantify the effects of the violets, and the addition of singles would cost more than the addition of a second cxa3070... i'm thinking it would certainly be slightly cheaper to use 2x 3070 Z2's, and that 2 of those would surely be plenty for my <1m vertical x 18"x36" horizontal space. Whether i use a 2x 18"x18" strat (1 cxa centered over each adjacent "half"), or a single centerpiece above the whole 18"x36" area, is another consideration, but maybe not so relevant.

Not quite sure which direction to go w/ the heatsinks (separate and cheap, versus combined and less cheap)... but i suppose i'm not quite at that bridge just yet. :)
 
B

bondoman

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Do you have a link bondoman? I couldn't track it down on google.
Click to expand...
Here's some pics. Notice it's the 830 Lumen version. They pulled these diodes and now put cheaper ones which say 880 Lumens. I think they went the cheaper route like Cree did when the pulled the XT-E's from their bulbs. I break off the frosted glass, and pull off the remote phosphor on a few in Veg, and then put most of them back on for flower.
 

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R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
What about vero 29's?

I'd like to see the spectra curve on the 2700k... was wondering if/how 2x vero 29's + 1 lumeon M, running all at 1a, would work... would eliminate the need for more than one driver or any dimming shenanigans...

Trying to keep it simple, cheap, and effective. It's a small space and tight budget, so i'm trying to target my sweet spot among all considerations.

Also, pretty sure i'm going w/ the "nano" ledgroupbuy heatsink, primarily due to the fact that i have no tools for drilling/tapping, and that sink comes with slots and screws, and a fan... so at ~$25, i won't be able to beat it by much, if at all, and it's less thinking required.

edit: The other "simplest" option is to just grab a pair of 3070's and call it a day.
 
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R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
So i need two of the best available red-heavy cobs which run optimally at 1 amp (and reasonable volts), for the lowest possible price.

I have no idea what a vero 29 will do at 1 amp. I see it lists "nominal current" at 2.1 amp, and apparently has a high max, compared to the comparable cree's. (it felt weird both with and without the apostrophe)

So, one Luxeon M + 2x 2700k Vero 29's at 1 amp, or 2x 3000k cxa3070 Z2's by themselves, also at 1 amp. (or would running all these at 700mA be worth doing?)

Which would be "better?" Initial cost is slightly lower on the Lux + Vero, and perhaps(?) provides a more balanced spectrum...?

Medium is en route, so i need to get my lamp ready.

What would be the cheapest/safest way to power either of these configs?

Do i need a separate power supply and a driver? Or is there a combined device (psu+driver) that can accomplish this? (also: why does a fan need its own power? is there not a way to use the same power source for all lights and fans? Or would that only be accomplished through resistors, thus wasting power by transforming it directly to heat?)


Or what about this:

1 Vero 29 (2700k) at 2 amps + 2 Luxeon M's at 1 amp + those violets and some 660nm at 700mA

(would require 3 different drivers, which complicates things...)
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
reasonevangelist said:
So i need two of the best available red-heavy cobs which run optimally at 1 amp (and reasonable volts), for the lowest possible price.

I have no idea what a vero 29 will do at 1 amp. I see it lists "nominal current" at 2.1 amp, and apparently has a high max, compared to the comparable cree's. (it felt weird both with and without the apostrophe)

So, one Luxeon M + 2x 2700k Vero 29's at 1 amp, or 2x 3000k cxa3070 Z2's by themselves, also at 1 amp. (or would running all these at 700mA be worth doing?)

Which would be "better?" Initial cost is slightly lower on the Lux + Vero, and perhaps(?) provides a more balanced spectrum...?

Medium is en route, so i need to get my lamp ready.

What would be the cheapest/safest way to power either of these configs?

Do i need a separate power supply and a driver? Or is there a combined device (psu+driver) that can accomplish this? (also: why does a fan need its own power? is there not a way to use the same power source for all lights and fans? Or would that only be accomplished through resistors, thus wasting power by transforming it directly to heat?)


Or what about this:

1 Vero 29 (2700k) at 2 amps + 2 Luxeon M's at 1 amp + those violets and some 660nm at 700mA

(would require 3 different drivers, which complicates things...)
Click to expand...
I'd start here.

http://rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/
 
Positivity

Positivity

Well-Known Member
Sorry if I didn't expand but time is usually short. Part hunting isn't the fastest thing to do.

Seems you are getting complicated too quickly.

Just build a light based on the cxa 3070 is my suggestion. Never mind blues and violets and reds...save that for a future build which you will undoubtedly do if you get the first done successfully

200w? Alright, something to work with..

Easy..get a 200w driver. Constant current either meanwell or inventronics. There's other brands if you want to search and experiment.


Why 700ma? So you can put other leds into the mix. Otherwise it will be a cheaper build driving the cxas harder and leaving other colors out. But 700ma will be very efficient, nothing wrong with that

How much cxas will fit at 700ma? Each pulling about 30w..

You can put 6 and end up with 180 watts of led power. Hooked up to a killawatt to see the draw you would be running right around 200w because of driver inefficiencys.....perfect.

You can put 5 and end up at 150w cxa power. Leaving 30w for whatever other leds you feel like. Again ending up with max of 200w...perfect.

First light? I say just put all the power into 6 cxas. Probably work better than any other combo anyways. I use reds but I'm simply experimenting and it's about my 10th light I've built.

So....

Dimmable 200w inventronics driver...http://www.futurelightingsolutions.com/en/Technologies/Semiconductors/Lighting-Solutions/LED-Driver-Modules/Pages/7018238-EUC-200S070DT.aspx?ManufacturerName=INVENTRONICS&isFLS=true&IM=0

Not dimmable 200w inventronics and not in stock either..but order able.....http://www.futurelightingsolutions.com/en/Technologies/Semiconductors/Lighting-Solutions/LED-Driver-Modules/Pages/9009943-EUC-200S070ST.aspx?ManufacturerName=INVENTRONICS&isFLS=true&IM=0


Others are much better versed in meanwell driver specs and where to buy them. Also the sticky has lots of info...https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/unread



Heatsink...I'd use at least a 2'L but 2.5'L would be even better for a 36" area.
http://www.heatsinkusa.com

Seperate power supply for fans...http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Regulated-Switching-Power-Supply/dp/B002FH54L6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1406899855&sr=8-3&keywords=12v dc 2a


That's the meat of it

But then there's other things. If you don't use holders and your soldering isn't very good...there's a good chance you'll shock yourself. The 200w high voltage driver will sting.. So in that case...read up..practice on a simple build like my first post showed or one that others have shared in the various threads using low voltage drivers and CPU coolers.

One driver....one led....Build two or three.

But really it's about what you want. Find one you like, copy it and build it. You want exact answers on my drivers or parts in my lights just ask..
 
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