Was me Going LED a mistake Or Maybe Im to blame

[Lordgenin]

Hey fellow LED user
Going through a dilemma here. Got a couple of HID grows under my belt, 600 watt being the highest 5 plant 12oz. was not to bad. The HEAT was killer so hard to learn how to deal with it but i made it through took a break saved up did some research and got the mother-ship of all LEDs grow light in my "opinion". For those thar dont know it here is Link : http://www.illumitex.com/illumitex-led-products/neosol-ns/ ... Furthermore i got light pop some seeds and it going good not as fast as HIDs i guess but good.
Here comes my question :
1. Why is it not as fast as HIDs for veg ?
2. Will LEDs good for only flower ?
A little back ground i am growing in 20liter Air pots with Sunshine mi, Light was on 24hr reduce to 18/6 . 4x4 tent. Feed with tab water left out over 2 days w/ KIND nuts Botanicare. Temps: Room: High 81F 44RH Low 77 25RH Tent: Not 100% Low RH due too Negative pressure.
What am i doing wrong because i think it is me. i though i had all the number right but i dont so please Help ME!!!!

Just adding a little more background why i wanted these light i know HIDs have a deeper light penetration but i was going SOG no veg ebb and flow. so i feel as thought the light is good enough for that for that. At the moment i am in getting mother ready stage and was just using light with t5 4ft 4 blub but i am getting very very slow veg growth so i can take clones.

 

[FranJan]

Hey Lord it's probably not you it's that the NeoSol 600 is not a true 600 watt HPS replacement when it comes to marijuana IMHO. Illumitex seems to be as full of shit as anyone when it comes to real world performance and from what I know you don't have enough F3s per square foot. A NS can't do a 4x4 crop of weed. Plus they need to be driven a bit harder than the 530mA for marijuana. Maybe the F3 is probably not the best spectrum for vegging but it still should do well. I use to use a F1 rig for veg and it worked fine for me. I think it's you've got too much area for it to cover properly. How high is the rig? Have you been lowering and raising it to see what the plants do?

Good Luck.

 

[Lordgenin]

Hey Lord it's probably not you it's that the NeoSol 600 is not a true 600 watt HPS replacement when it comes to marijuana IMHO. Illumitex seems to...
Good Luck.

Thank you so much for your response, like just reading what u have said made me feel alot better. I have kept the light very close to the plant no more then 7-10 in like it is right by the plants. I was thinking about grabbing anther one just to fully get the 4x4 area once i have clones for 3x3 flood tray... I really just wanted it for flowering ... i dont know what to do. Man it crazy i did so much reserch and i was like this has to be the best company.. SOB

 

[Scotch089]

You don't think being 7-10" away could stunt em do you Fran?? That could be your slow growth... Specially of its heavy blue (not familiar with the illumi spectrums)

 

[FranJan]

^^^Not a ton of blue in an F3, it uses 5000K whites. My plants loved the F1, (460nm instead of 5000K, 450mA) in veg and would grow right up to the LEDs with no problems. With flowering I do try to be about 6" and that seems to get me killer density, but I'm running 6 F3s psf at 580mA. Lots more output.

Anyway don't despair yet Lordgenin, you could try getting the arms as close together then add some T5s, LED spotlights or DIY 4, maybe 6, COB lights as side lighting to up the PAR. Or maybe we're jumping to conclusions that it's the lights and perhaps it's the amount of nutes you're using or something else. I'd drop it down and if they don't respond maybe you need to raise it after all.

Perhaps a long phone call with Illumitex is in order. Who knows, if you play your cards right they'll upgrade the rig. They are discontinuing the F3 soon. Could work in your favor there. Then again they may try to sell you some more lighting.

 

[Lordgenin]

^^

Here is a little background if need Scotch089 : http://www.illumitex.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Horticultural-Brochure-4.25.14.pdf

It may be to much nut i think having a little nut burn it showing here a pic what do you think.
I didnt know they where going to due away with the F3 last time I have talk to them they said the F3 is outperforming the X5 and that is what i really wanted. I will give them a call and hopefully I can get something out of it.
Can you explain to me what u mean by "driven a bit harder than the 530mA for cannabis" ?

 

[Greenup]

What's the temp? You may just need to raise the temps up a little

 

[Red1966]

The NS is advertised as being suitable for a 3x3, The DS is for 4x4. I have seen commercial grows on the web using the individual bars packed side by side, much closer the the DS or NS. I suspect you might need TWO DS's side by side to cover 4x4. One Apache AT600 would be cheaper. Not much info out there on the Illumitex. Just advertising, which you can't trust.

 

[Lordgenin]

What's the temp? You may just need to raise the temps up a little

Temps are around 75-80 light on and off.

 

[Lordgenin]

The NS is advertised as being suitable for a 3x3, The DS is for 4x4. I have seen commercial grows on the web using the individual bars packed side by side, much closer the the DS or NS. I suspect you might need TWO DS's side by side to cover 4x4. One Apache AT600 would be cheaper. Not much info out there on the Illumitex. Just advertising, which you can't trust.

I was think the same thing I got the Ns pretty cheap 999 same as BML I might get one more and just for experiments but I think overall I going to just back to hps. Kinda seem like I wasted money and time . But I will in future run side by side compression on 2 neosol ns vs 1k ... Sog 3x3 tray in 4x4 tent .

 

[FranJan]

I didnt know they where going to due away with the F3 last time I have talk to them they said the F3 is outperforming the X5 and that is what i really wanted. I will give them a call and hopefully I can get something out of it.
Can you explain to me what u mean by "driven a bit harder than the 530mA for cannabis" ?

OK the short answer is LEDs are current devices, if you increase your current, which is the mass of electrons you're using to make photons, you increase light output but that increased interactions result in more heat which can be catostrophic or even lead to decreased output and is why LED companies rate LEDs with a max mA. Now Illumitex rates a F3 at 600mA max but no one runs them that close, I think the DS runs at 550mA but it could be 530. I run mine at 580 and believe I can get them to 630 with active cooling. So the closer you run them to spec the harder you run them. There are times this pays off and times it doesn't but since I believe Illumitex to be about selling LEDs 1st it would behoove them to underspec their parts and say you need an increase in LED count than an increase in the LEDs PAR output.

And that's the short version!

And I am only assuming about the F3s actually because of 2 things. One is the F3A is coming out this fall and 2, on Mouser.com the prices are just falling steadily. Last time I looked you can get F3s in bulk for 5 bucks and change. So maybe I shouldn't have said discountinued. Sorry. Still they got a closet full of them and I can't see why they wouldn't want to satisfy an unhappy customer by upgrading their rig.

 

[Red1966]

I was think the same thing I got the Ns pretty cheap 999 same as BML I might get one more and just for experiments but I think overall I going to just back to hps. Kinda seem like I wasted money and time . But I will in future run side by side compression on 2 neosol ns vs 1k ... Sog 3x3 tray in 4x4 tent .

Kind of an expensive experiment. You must have a really inquiring mind.

 

[Red1966]

OK the short answer is LEDs are current devices, if you increase your current, which is the mass of electrons you're using to make photons, you increase light output but that increased interactions result in more heat which can be catostrophic or even lead to decreased output and is why LED companies rate LEDs with a max mA. Now Illumitex rates a F3 at 600mA max but no one runs them that close, I think the DS runs at 550mA but it could be 530. I run mine at 580 and believe I can get them to 630 with active cooling. So the closer you run them to spec the harder you run them. There are times this pays off and times it doesn't but since I believe Illumitex to be about selling LEDs 1st it would behoove them to underspec their parts and say you need an increase in LED count than an increase in the LEDs PAR output.

And that's the short version!

And I am only assuming about the F3s actually because of 2 things. One is the F3A is coming out this fall and 2, on Mouser.com the prices are just falling steadily. Last time I looked you can get F3s in bulk for 5 bucks and change. So maybe I shouldn't have said discountinued. Sorry. Still they got a closet full of them and I can't see why they wouldn't want to satisfy an unhappy customer by upgrading their rig.

If you time it right, say like right after they start selling the new chips, you might get a real bargain on the F3's

 

[PurpleBuz]

As others mentioned, the NS is a 300 watt unit, a bit small for a 4x4. But if you get two double tube 4 foot T5s and put them on each side of the NS it will work great. After all the NS is only 18" wide.

 

[Lordgenin]

Ok.

Very understandable, in your opinion what would you do if you were in my shoes?

Kind of an expensive experiment. You must have a really inquiring mind.

My mom always told me there someone out there always smarter then you stronger then you,and better looking then you. So always not matter what u do give it your best effort.
I am no rrich person i work 9-5 average joe doing app. development just graduated ^^. I bought the light because I thought it was best and I want to try to make the best product I could.
I m kinda discouraged but i dont want to feel like i just wasted $999 ... have not have light more then a month (very depressing).

 

[Red1966]

At least you learned something. Cheer up, everybody gets buyers remorse.

 

[Lordgenin]

You I did learn a lot and I thank you all a lot for helping me. I think i will just keep it and see if they can do something to help me out. It they cant well i will just go hps for the time being save up some more money then get another one.
I was hoping to be like this, But i see i am far from that reality.

I am not going to give up thanks for the words of encouragement

 

[CaliWorthington]

I wouldn't look at it as wasted money. Illumitex is not a bad light. It may only cover 3x3 in flowering, but it's not like it won't produce quality buds. Good idea by PurpleBuz to flank it with some T5's.

 

[FranJan]

Very understandable, in your opinion what would you do if you were in my shoes?

... have not have light more then a month (very depressing).

Yeah it's not wasted money. You can grow weed just not the way you thought. Still call Illumitex and nice and rationally explain your dissatisfaction and disillusionment with their product but don't threaten to return it. Who knows, maybe you've got a bad one with a driver problem ? Maybe it's only running at something like 400mA, which really would explain the poor vegetative growth. And adding CREE bulbs or DIY CREE COBs are a quick and easy fixes for adding intensity. Running a SCRoG would really be best and would play to the panels strength of even output. Shrinking your footprint/grow area is a good idea like people are suggesting and if you really want to get risky you could unscrew the inside screws of the outer beams and rotate them in 10° to 20° to get some wasted light back into the grow area. DO THAT AT YOUR OWN RISK.

You've only had it for a month so it's not like you really know what you've got yet, right?

 

[Lordgenin]

Yeah it's not wasted money.

You've only had it for a month so it's not like you really know what you've got yet, right?

True, very true. I still have not even flowered with it yet, maybe veg is just not its thing. Thank you again for all the great advice and education on LEDs. I'll keep you updated on the progress and see what they say.