200 proof non-denatured alcohol winterized single solvent extraction

[mantle7717]

for a bit of time I've been using 200 proof non-denatured ethyl alcohol and good material that i freeze for 24 hours at -5, i then do a 15-20 sec quick wash, i filter the solution and place it in the freezer for 24 hours, i then filter the solution the solution into 3-4 smaller containers with coffee filters held on with rubberbands, to remove any fat and waxes, the containers are placed in the freezer after pour to filter to avoid destabilization of fats, after filtering is finished liquid into a large pyrex and heat on a heat pad it at 109 with a fan.

my question is, is there a better way to improve my dewaxing process or terp preserving in extraction.... i want that dab candy.
i have a decent mastercool vacuum setup, i nolonger use any nbutane in any extraction, could i vacuum pump the alcohol concentrate, and if i do, do i have to worry about condensation or some shit in my pump, if i can what temp should i pump it at. gotta keep my set up fresh.

 

[Blunter the kid]

for a bit of time I've been using 200 proof non-denatured ethyl alcohol and good material that i freeze for 24 hours at -5, i then do a 15-20 sec quick wash, i filter the solution and place it in the freezer for 24 hours, i then filter the solution the solution into 3-4 smaller containers with coffee filters held on with rubberbands, to remove any fat and waxes, the containers are placed in the freezer after pour to filter to avoid destabilization of fats, after filtering is finished liquid into a large pyrex and heat on a heat pad it at 109 with a fan.

my question is, is there a better way to improve my dewaxing process or terp preserving in extraction.... i want that dab candy.
i have a decent mastercool vacuum setup, i nolonger use any nbutane in any extraction, could i vacuum pump the alcohol concentrate, and if i do, do i have to worry about condensation or some shit in my pump, if i can what temp should i pump it at. gotta keep my set up fresh.

You could separate the terpenes from your material or your extract in the first place by distilling and condensing the aromatics, which can be done a number ways.
Other than that your process is about as good as your gonna get in terms of terpene preservation because alcohol's boiling point is moderately low, your best bet is to use less alcohol so the evaporation takes less time.
You should always worry about getting solvent vapors in your pump, because it affects the viscosity of the pump oil, which makes your pump less effective at pulling a strong vacuum and will just shorten the life of your pump, you should make a cold trap, then you can vacuum purge and not worry about losing terpenes because they'll condense with the solvent in the cold trap.

 

[SnapsProvolone]

If you want the golden yum yum you need to run butane. The QWET and QWISO processes will never compare on the flavor spectrum.

An ethanol winterization will finish your butane purge.

If worriec about mystery oil, distll your butane in a closed loop or use R-600

 

[Blunter the kid]

If you want the golden yum yum you need to run butane. The QWET and QWISO processes will never compare on the flavor spectrum.

An ethanol winterization will finish your butane purge.

If worriec about mystery oil, distll your butane in a closed loop or use R-600

I believe aromatic chemicals that make up the smell are more soluble in alcohols than in alkanes.
Butane is a fantastic solvent, it's what I use but when an ethanol extraction is done properly, there's no question that it stands up to bho, and it sounds like op can perform a proper extraction.
I find some strains maker better Qwiso than BHO, but more often than not I'll use butane to do quick washes on my material because it's easier to purge off :/

 

[mantle7717]

You could separate the terpenes from your material or your extract in the first place by distilling and condensing the aromatics, which can be done a number ways.
Other than that your process is about as good as your gonna get in terms of terpene preservation because alcohol's boiling point is moderately low, your best bet is to use less alcohol so the evaporation takes less time.
You should always worry about getting solvent vapors in your pump, because it affects the viscosity of the pump oil, which makes your pump less effective at pulling a strong vacuum and will just shorten the life of your pump, you should make a cold trap, then you can vacuum purge and not worry about losing terpenes because they'll condense with the solvent in the cold trap.

hey blunter, thank you for the advice, im here to learn, i am very interested in your idea of separating terpenes, can you explain a bit more.

also if i used a smaller amount of alcohol could i just reuse the same alcohol for a large amount of quick washes (get that thin syrup) in the first place or would i just loose yield

 

[Blunter the kid]

hey blunter, thank you for the advice, im here to learn, i am very interested in your idea of separating terpenes, can you explain a bit more.

also if i used a smaller amount of alcohol could i just reuse the same alcohol for a large amount of quick washes (get that thin syrup) in the first place or would i just loose yield

Well the cannabinoids are diterpenes which do not evaporate as readily as the sesquiterpenes, monoterpenes, and terpenoid variations on those such as ketones, aldehydes, alcohols, and esters.
All have similar boiling points to some extent.
The cannabinoids and the waxes have the highest molecular weight which is why it's possible to accidentally over purge your extract and lose most terpenes and still have your cannabinoids.
So to answer your question you may have to buy a few pieces of glassware to do it but you just make your extract as you would and place the extract in a boiling flask.
Your going to need a few other pieces but I'll continue anyways, place your boiling flask fitted with a fractional distillation column connected with, a joint, to a Liebig condenser connected to a round bottom flask that may or may not be submerged in ice cold water
You slowly heat the boiling flask with a heating mantle until you've reduced the volume of solvent like you said to a syrup consistency.
You will have collected any alcohol that was evaporated and any aromatics along with it.
Or you could try what I was saying in another thread about a microwave extractor, here's the quote without the quotes lol.
http://oilextech.com/
I bet that thing can be used to distill all the terpenes from your material and decarb it in the same step prior to extraction with a solvent to remove the THC.
Once your extract is sufficiently purged you can add in the terpenes you would have lost during the purge.[/QUOTE]

 

[qwizoking]

If the etoh is pre chilled this isn't winterizing at all and if it wasn't its really not a good idea anyway..the prolonged contact of your flavorful compounds and the etoh is also not preferred if it serves no purpose.
Could take it off the heat and add some vac or just take off the heat..at the very least do until it needs purged.. yes an alcohol extraction extracts more flavor than butane

Why do you say you eliminated n butane? i mean obviously I prefer iso butane. But do you mean you don't use it at all? I don't know just curious

 

[Blunter the kid]

As long as lipids are precipitating from solution it would be considered winterization i think

 

[qwizoking]

Because your not switching solvents changing polarity. What drops out if anything will be much closer in ratio to what was extracted. If that makes sense. A proper extraction should be ran with frozen etoh anyway and this would have no positive affect literally not winterizing in any sense, but sure argue with that??

But if warm ethanol was saturated with an ethanol extracted product the polarity difference isn't so great. Chilling will drop out the heavier and less like etoh compounds but those compounds are now higher in ratio to heavier diterpenes and flavorful long chain esters etc


Your statement is based on the assumption that he is even filtering a precipitate and that its waxes

Besides we all know this as dewaxing like with butane, as op even calls it at the bottom
The scientific mind doesn't agree with single solvent dewaxing.. especially with butane lol

 

[Blunter the kid]

Because your not switching solvents changing polarity. What drops out if anything will be much closer in ratio to what was extracted. If that makes sense. A proper extraction should be ran with frozen etoh anyway and this would have no positive affect literally not winterizing in any sense, but sure argue with that??

But if warm ethanol was saturated with an ethanol extracted product the polarity difference isn't so great. Chilling will drop out the heavier and less like etoh compounds but those compounds are now higher in ratio to heavier diterpenes and flavorful long chain esters etc


Your statement is based on the assumption that he is even filtering a precipitate and that its waxes

Besides we all know this as dewaxing like with butane, as op even calls it at the bottom
The scientific mind doesn't agree with single solvent dewaxing.. especially with butane lol

Lol are you butt hurt about something I said..?
If he reduces the volume of the solvent, regardless of the solvent used for extraction and then freezes it... Waxes will precipitate, sure some solvents work better than others.. I use acetone.
Your assuming a lot of shit do u have something against me lol
I should add that I never assumed he was filtering out the precipitates that formed, Mantle said that.

 

[qwizoking]

Butt hurt??
When does school go back in

Maybe reread my post and try and understand what's happening here..freezing a solvent doesn't precipitate waxes. It drops the less like compounds and is only efficient after a non polar extraction, just like an a/b or similar
I never assume, I said you were..........
After your previous post

Also mantles second post has nothing to do with anything, didn't even see it and op never mentions a precipitate, just to filter any that may have formed. And again if this qwet was made properly winterizing like this would have no affect at all

 

[mantle7717]

If the etoh is pre chilled this isn't winterizing at all and if it wasn't its really not a good idea anyway..the prolonged contact of your flavorful compounds and the etoh is also not preferred if it serves no purpose.
Could take it off the heat and add some vac or just take off the heat..at the very least do until it needs purged.. yes an alcohol extraction extracts more flavor than butane

Why do you say you eliminated n butane? i mean obviously I prefer iso butane. But do you mean you don't use it at all? I don't know just curious

qwizoking i am always glad to get your impressively educated input, i dont like the idea of using butane, its very dangerous to ingest, and even after a perfect purge with a colibri/vector 14 run, there is still that .001.
i decided on non-denatured alcohol when reading the ingrediants of a ejuice i had and i contained a decently high amount of ethanol, people can vape it and not die, which would kill them if the e juice had hexane butane or isoalcohol in it. i decided that non-denatured alcohol was the lesser of the evils and still can get a decent quality

 

[Bublonichronic]

Don't debate qk, he knows his shit..

 

[Grow Goddess]

If you want the golden yum yum you need to run butane. The QWET and QWISO processes will never compare on the flavor spectrum.

An ethanol winterization will finish your butane purge.

If worriec about mystery oil, distll your butane in a closed loop or use R-600

Sorry, but I must disagree. I can get golden premium from an alcohol wash and I can do better than that. I can get pink, orange, and transparent golden, just with alcohol and a freezer.

I am talking about a virgin extract. No paper filtering and no winterizing. I personally have not seen anything outdo alcohol. I have seen others equally compare, but not outperform.

 

[mantle7717]

im still a bit new to extracting this way, if i cant winterize the solution is there a way you know of that i could dewax a cold qwet? any help is appriciated

 

[Da Mann]

You do it the way I do. It is the best way I know. For me anyway.

 

[Blunter the kid]

Maybe acetone would do it, but most brands of acetone will have additives so you should distill the solvent beforehand to remove those additives.

 

[qwizoking]

We dont use acetone, its bad for you. Much worse for you, than the other solvents typically suggested and the production is dirty
All acetone is dirty, even if just slightly. And many of the contaminants have a quite high boiling point-higher than thc
And no I don't feel like fixing that link, why does copy paste quotes do that.
"Acetone is produced directly or indirectly from propylene. Approximately 83% of acetone is produced via the cumene process, as a result, acetone production is tied to phenol production. In the cumene process, benzene is alkylated with propylene to produce cumene, which is oxidized by air to produce phenol and acetone"
http://www.chromatographyonline.com/lcgc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=666757&sk=&date=& &pageID=2
List of 99% or better acetone analysis 21 brands

"All 21 acetone sources were found to contain four of the common acetone impurities expected; diacetone alcohol (2-pentanone,4-hydroxy-4-methyl-), mesityl oxide (3-penten-2-one,4-methyl-), phorone (2,5-heptadien-4-one,2,6-dimethyl-) and phenol"

"A large number and broad range of different chemical impurities were found, dependent upon the acetone source and production method. These chemical impurities ranged in complexity from simple organic acids, alkanes and olefins, to a variety of substituted benzyl compounds (to highlight just a few)."

 

[mantle7717]

You do it the way I do. It is the best way I know. For me anyway.

thank you for the positive post, i am starting to think there is no way to clean the solution

 

[Grow Goddess]

im still a bit new to extracting this way, if i cant winterize the solution is there a way you know of that i could dewax a cold qwet? any help is appriciated

With 200 proof grain or organic alcohol, and you do the extraction like described above, a frozen quick rinse, there should be no need for winterizing.

Winterizing will make it smoother, at least when it comes to an isopropyl extract, but there is a negative side. You trade off flavor for smoothness when it comes to winterizing an iso extraction, at least in my experience.

Don't hesitate to give the standard winterizing a try. I doubt it will make it any more clear, but I am sure it will remove some crap out of it. It did for me when I winterized an iso extract with iso. It removed about the same amount of crap as winterizing. I suppose I wouldn't call it winterizing though because it does not remove crap for the reason of winterizing, but I believe it will remove crap for a couple of different reasons. The cold temperatures and the gravity of it sitting will help the unwanted stuff settle to the bottom. I would recommend 72 hours especially since you will not get the polar/non-polar effect of winterizing and that may be a good thing in my opinion. I am not a fan of yellow oil due to winterizing. Yellow oil is smooth and potent, but you don't taste the flavor of the strains, at least in my experience.

Out of all of the extractions I have done, by far the most flavorful in regards to the strains was using grain alcohol. Grain alcohol extracts the flavanoids more that any other solvent that I know of.

Don't judge the oil only by the looks, judge by the taste and buzz. I would give winterizing a try, 200 proof to 200 proof. I think I will remove some crud.