Effect of Defoliation on Yield - Skywalker OG indoor scrog

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Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

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I get positive results and I don't yank my leaves. What's your point? And yes, I've experimented with cannabis until I'm blue in the face and that includes pulling large fan leaves.

UNLESS, there is a good reason for doing so and I know that it will induce MORE foliage output, I might prune. Your focus should NOT be on producing bud, but producing and retaining the most foliage and root mass you can until harvest. Bud production will follow, naturally.

Fact - older leaves are not as productive as younger, mature leaves. The plant will pull the resources from a leaf that is undergoing necrosis and use it to its benefit.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/defoliation-question-anyone-familiar-with-it.602889/page-18

Jorge: "Keep the leaves on. This is based on science, not hearsay, on empirical science."...."your retarding the plant."

 
miccyj

miccyj

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So if what your saying is correct, than this experiment will show that there is a detrimental effect on the plants that are being plucked and I say there will be a positive effect. Now we can wait and see what happens.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
What "experiment"? Miccyi, you're ignoring my points, and that's OK. Perhaps someone understands the difference between a unsubstantiated journal by a stoner with a cell phone, CFL lights and a grow tent and a bonafide field study conducted by doctors of horticulture and their assistants under the strictest of laboratory conditions.

I wish him well, but the "results" are meaningless to me. I'm a professional and I will ONLY embrace actual, scientific field tests. Having said that, I'm am about to send a care package off to a grower in Santa Cruz as reflected at another site. Want to experiment, try Keyplex. After pissing off a lot of money and time on snake oils, this seems to be the real deal. This is just a few items I'm sending (in small quantities of course) -

Cruz'sGoodies#2.jpg
 
neo12345

neo12345

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Since you seem to think budsites need light to produce, why don't you completely defoliate your plant?
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Sorry you seem to be getting a lot of questions at the moment but I have one for you, if you have a moment to answer it.

My question is can light have an effect on apical dominance?

The reason for my asking is that when I've grown with plants placed in a circle with a bulb hanging vertically, the buds on the inside towards the light are bigger than the buds on the outside facing away at the same node.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
neo12345 said:
Sorry you seem to be getting a lot of questions at the moment but I have one for you, if you have a moment to answer it.

My question is can light have an effect on apical dominance?

The reason for my asking is that when I've grown with plants placed in a circle with a bulb hanging vertically, the buds on the inside towards the light are bigger than the buds on the outside facing away at the same node.
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The response is called "phototropism".
 
OscarLaGrouch

OscarLaGrouch

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Uncle Ben said:
Not trying to be rude, just making a point, a point you don't like so there goes the demonizing drills. Like I said, this is about the 10th defoliation thread I've seen, all based on conjecture and a lack of understanding of what makes a plant tick. The fact that you guys think a budsite needs light to produce confirms my conviction, you don't understand plant processes.

Question remains and it is a valid one - why don't you yank all of your large fan leaves? I mean isn't that what mother nature does over millenium, evolve into a living system complete with useless plant units?

UB
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Do you read? I have a degree in Botany. I know what makes a plant tick. I said a budsite needs light. I said i like to yank leaves and i wanna know what effect it has on yield, if any. Its my experiment. What do you care? Stay off my thread cuz i am getting pissed.

Anybody quoting this guy into my thread after i ignore him get ignored too.
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
The one thing I don't do is top my cloned budders. I LST first before I resort to pruning fans.
Defoliation really depends on style and grow circumstances.
IMO in week 4-8 it is ok to lose some fans off the main stalk if the grow space is too congested. The leaves below a dense canopy will die anyway.
Don't overprune either, especially late in the grow because it could promote more eye leaf growth.
The fact is mj is a very hardy plant if in the correct enviroment. In the past I have taken in stripped homegrown stalks(1980's) pulled by the roots and produced nice bud with them.
The early eighties sucked, in Canada.
12/12d was the best discovery since the wheel:)
 
OscarLaGrouch

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
I thinkbyou may be right. We will see.
Sparkticus said:
Healthy plants will produce more foliage than they need, to compensate for natural defoliation (weather, pests etc.). So when we care for plants indoors and remove those factors, there is a good possibility the plant has more leaves than it needs to function at it's maximum. Some leaves can go and have no effect on the plant's functions... it's a natural defense mechanism for the plant. However, unless those leaves are unhealthy and draining energy to stay alive (which is usually a mistake on our parts via feeding or whatever), I don't think their existence (even if shading sites) will negatively affect flower growth. Some indoor growers I respect and who consistently get huge yields, don't yank anything but they also have extremely healthy plants start to finish. Since all their leaves are green and happy, the leaves are strictly producing energy, not taking any away. That's their logic anyway and I tend to agree based on looking at their bushes, haha.

If the plants stay FREE OF DEFICIENCIES and such my prediction would be : The yields will be relatively close. Some defoliation of healthy leaves is natural and will have little effect on yields. Too much defoliation will lower yields... I think we can all agree plants need some amount of leaves to be healthy, lol (which brings up a good question, how much defoliation is too much?). If the untouched plants are healthy throughout, they will produce as much as defoliated plants, even in shaded sites. This is an educated guess at best and if I'm completely wrong, I'm okay with that.... I learned something. *This guess isn't really based on a scrog which may very well need to be defoliated up to the screen to be as effective by design.
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OscarLaGrouch

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
Does mother nature provide plants w bottled food? Does mother nature shine sun 18 hours one day then the next day only 12? Does mother nature do any of the unnatural shit indoor growers do? Nah. She doesnt.

I am growing plants in a fucking lab, man. Accept it.

Uncle Ben said:
Not trying to be rude, just making a point, a point you don't like so there goes the demonizing drills. Like I said, this is about the 10th defoliation thread I've seen, all based on conjecture and a lack of understanding of what makes a plant tick. The fact that you guys think a budsite needs light to produce confirms my conviction, you don't understand plant processes.

Question remains and it is a valid one - why don't you yank all of your large fan leaves? I mean isn't that what mother nature does over millenium, evolve into a living system complete with useless plant units?

UB
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neo12345

neo12345

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
The response is called "phototropism".
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'Phototropism is the growth of organisms in response to light. It is most often observed in plants, but can also occur in other organisms such as fungi. The growth or movement of a plant part in response to a source of light. The cells on the plant that are farthest from the light have a chemical called auxin that reacts when phototropism occurs. This causes the plant to have elongated cells on the farthest side from the light. Phototropism is one of the many plant tropisms or movements which respond to external stimuli. Growth towards a light source is called positive phototropism, while growth away from light is called negative phototropism.'

'There are several signaling molecules that help the plant determine where the light source is, and this activates several genes, which change the hormone gradients allowing the plant to grow towards the light. The very tip of the plant known as the coleoptile is necessary in light sensing.'

Wikipedia.

That makes perfect sense to me, the buds closer to the light are growing bigger because they are stimulated by the light. Where as the opposite branch is not growing as much because it's not receiving as much light.

So this is where the confusion comes in because phototropism says that by getting more light to those budsites will produce bigger buds, but you're saying that this is not correct and getting more light to the budsites will not produce more bud.

If this is a common newbie misconception then where are we going wrong with it, what are we not taking into account? Thanks for taking the time to reply. :)
 
OscarLaGrouch

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
Im doing an empirically controlled scientific experiment and i will repeat it in triplicate.
Uncle Ben said:
And so does that monkey painting my garage wall.

Look, that is NOT an empirically controlled scientific experiment performed in triplicate by a non-partisan, independent lab. It is another push for some "growing secret", a come-on to a sales pitch for an expensive book priced out at $57. Go head, place it in your cart. :)
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OscarLaGrouch

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
miccyj said:
UB, I do yank all my large fans...Have you actually performed any experimentation in regards to this subject or are you simply saying it shouldn't work, so therefore it won't? You know that we once thought the world was flat and that the earth was the centre of the universe.
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He has not and will not. I kinda hope the defol table smokes table B just to slow his roll.
 
bird mcbride

bird mcbride

Well-Known Member
I have noticed that budsites that don't get direct light do not develop as well as a bud site that does recieve direct light.
This is why I LST and possible have to thin a bit.
I like to get as many budsites in the light without compromising too much of the canopy.
A 1kw hps cannot compare to the sun. The guy with the great outdoor garden doesn't apply.
 
OscarLaGrouch

OscarLaGrouch

Well-Known Member
stoner with a cell phone and a grow tent? have you seen my grow? it's a twenty thousand dollar lab! did you even read the initial post? Also, you don't need a PhD to do research but I am in the process of getting mine anyway. The strict lab conditions are outlined in my initial post. Both tables are subject to the same 'strictest of laboratory conditions'. The only variable is defoliation. This is a valid experiment.

I'm getting a little tired of you lording your PhD over me and putting my shit down. You've called me a stoner with a grow tent that doesn't understand plant functions. Apparently you just want to be better than the rest of us without actually reading anything or being open-minded.


"I wish him well, but the "results" are meaningless to me. I'm a professional and I will ONLY embrace actual, scientific field tests. -"

UB must be the only person on RIU capable of doing an experiment. We should all bow down and use his outdoor methods indoors. (eyeroll)

I am a professional grower and a professional Botanist. An experiment is nothing more than a set of variables that are controlled (the same in both groups) while the tested variable varies so that one can test a hypothesis.
UB you are on my ignore list. anybody who quotes this arrogant fuck into my thread gets ignored too.
NO TROLLISM, TROLLING IS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN
 
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