Ambitious RDWC SOG Setup Advice?

[Miley T]

First thread started on rollitup, been a reader for a minute though.

So heres the deal. Im planning out a perpetual harvest RDWC SOG grow that will consist of 4 8ftx8ft by 1ft deep "pools" each connected together and linked to a main res in another room. My question is, assuming the water is chilled, completely shielded from light, and contained properly, how long can I really go without changing nutes, and how much am I talking in monthly operating costs for good nutes. Im still looking for optimal quality bud (hence the DWC, LED full spectrum lighting at max light saturation, etc), so i dont mind spending but this is alot of water and alot of nutes we are talking about to replace every 2 weeks. Any advice on recommended nutes for plants that are grown DWC, and only vegged for a week?

Also, im still trying to plan this whole thing out. Ill post pics and diagrams later, but in the mean time, anyone got any advice or tips to make this thing run smoothly? Thanks in advice

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Your 8x8 should hold about 40 gallons per inch of depth. Running Lucas you could go 60 days with just ro topoffs (float), ppm maintenance and ph adjustment. Once rocking a few weeks in, I would estimate that per 8x8 they're gonna need 60ml micro and 120ml bloom addbacks daily to compensate for a 20-25 ppm daily drop.

 

[Miley T]

Awesome ill definately look into lucas nutes. Do you recommend running each pool separately or should I recirculate all the pools through a res and add topoffs and addbacks to that? Im trying to weigh the pro/cons between the two. The way I see it, It would be worth the extra cost in nutes for the added water volume to be able to only deal with one set of measurements, and run the solution through the chiller to keep the tub temp low and force nute to the roots.

Another thing I was thinking about was running an ultrasonic floating fogger in each tank, thinking that would promote root growth until the plants were mature enough to hang into the dwc. Seems like this would achieve a similar function as an aeroponic sprayer until the plants roots matured. Thoughts? also, would the vaporizing from the foggers mean my ppm and water will drop substantially faster?

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Its best to have a reservoir for plants of the same age. If loading the 8x8's staggered then each should be on it's own imo. Reason is last three or four weeks I stop adding back micro and just use bloom for ppm bumps.

I love large reservoirs. Screw changouts. Ill do that at harvest. And to the naysayers, i do 2 lbs. per 1000 watter off sog in flood and drain trays with no veg.

Skip the fogger and spend for a big ass air supply. A scroll compressor might be in order. How many lpm you planning on per 8x8?

How do you plan to access the middle of the a 8x8?

 

[Miley T]

Lpm? Sorry man still new at this, been crash coursing heavy for bout 3 mo so I don't know all the terms yet lol.

As for the middle, my plan is simply wood planks on a couple sawhorses that I'll put up for trimming and maintainance

 

[SnapsProvolone]

8' of plank span will likely have sag issues.

Liters per minute of air. You need serious bubbles in dwc.

How are you going to suspend plants when started?

How will you support bud mass in late flower?

How many plants per 8x8?

You going to veg them?

I admit to not being a fan of putting all this under LED but it's your setup.

 

[Miley T]

I know the LED is controversial but hopefully I'll be getting a deal since I'm buying 16 units for the 4 sections. I haven't done calculations on exact air volume needed per sqft. The idea was to have 4-6" air stone under each plant site. Plants will be suspended via net pots (standard) and will only be vegged for a week top, and that Depending on how long/well my plants root and fill out my area. I'm planing on a single plant per sqft until I either get more familiar with growing or find a strain that doesn't mind having multiple plants per sqft. From what I gather, 1 per sqft is standard starting sog density.


Ill have to work on a solution to getting to the plants in the middle... Worse comes to worse I have an few ladders I can use to bridge the gap instead of planks (good call on that question)

 

[jijiandfarmgang]

I thought LED users use Advanced Nutrients cause they are the best?

I'd skip the LEDs but its your grow.

Buy a dry mix of hydro nutrients that fits the profile you want, and has a guaranteed analysis. Not anything marketed towards weed. Nutes are cheap.

I don't think that setup would work very well, although I'd love to see pics. Assuming its legal for you, I'd say screw the net pots, do a major SOG a lot of tiny plants with rafts.

There's no way a ladder or scaffolding is gonna get you to the middle without damaging plants.

- Jiji

 

[Miley T]

yeah after a little more looking at it (smoking some sativa instead of indica lol) im thinking of slimming down to separate 4x4 tanks. running 4 tanks instead of one big one, and recirculating the solution through the bottom of all the buckets to a main res. Im figuring of running hydrologic or equivalent (gonna research that) to a float valve directly. I REALLY want to find some kind of automated dispenser that can compensate for ppm drop. Im sure its out there, just a question of cost.

Here is a question. I want to run purpetual harvest hopefully harvesting 4 of the smaller 4x4 buckets every week or two (strain dependant). Now, if I want to veg my plants for say 5-10 days before I flip them, will it hurt them to be running the same "bloom" nutes for that short week? I know your supposed to run high N low K for veg and the reverse for flower, but would it harm the plant to run slighly elevated levels of N in a flower nute mix permanately so i can veg and flower off the same system? Or will this thow off ppm or burn the roots?

(Small clarification, each 4x4 is under an individual light and will have a mylar tent constructed around the light and grow area. This way i can have the option of vegging my plants for a week or so before putting them into flower. Im thinking of keeping plant density at 1/ft2 so id like to veg them outside the cloner for a few days. Just want to be able to run one res so that I can keep water temp down with one chiller etc.)

P.S.- Did my best to make this as clear as possible. Partook of my friends herbal ADHD meds recently, and they are quite potent i must say

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Read up on dosing pumps.

Read up on Lucas Formula. Uses GH Flora bloom & micro at 2:1 for entire life. Large res addbacks could change from 2:1 to 2:0 in last three or four weeks.

Consider 4x8. Of you have space 4x12 or 4x16 even.

Consider HPS lighting. Will about double your yields. Its counterproductive to build a big system only to dangle a firefly above it. A single 1000 watter over each 4x4 area (two over a 4x8...)

Personally I wouldn't DWC a SOG but its done all the time by commercial lettuce growers and the like but their crop isn't top heavy so rafts work. A true sog is many cuttings, no veg. Imho, the best sogs are done in flood and drain trays.

 

[Miley T]

Will read up on the above. Also going to get back to the geometry and graph paper and see if I can figure out a way to make this more efficient.

I have looked at the ebb/flow way of doing things. some of the reasons Im opting with LED and DWC is temp. My location is, well, vertically limited and also not part of an HVAC system. Where I live has pretty intense heat and cold waves, and HID lighting is simply too hot to use, even with cool tubes. That on top of the height issue (24 in for the light/reflector and AC, and 24 in to the plant canopy, well im out of room.

Im pretty confident in alot of the newer LED systems out there. I know theres ALOT of crap manufacturers out there, and even more who just dont know what they are doing. But I have a couple friends running some LED systems and they say they are getting equivalent yields and slightly more resinous bud.

Let me be clear, I cant vouch for any of that since I havent seen any of their grows or before/afters. Just sampled some of the LED product, and it is top shelf my friend.

Thank you for all the help with the thread man btw.

 

[jijiandfarmgang]

Will read up on the above. Also going to get back to the geometry and graph paper and see if I can figure out a way to make this more efficient.

I have looked at the ebb/flow way of doing things. some of the reasons Im opting with LED and DWC is temp. My location is, well, vertically limited and also not part of an HVAC system. Where I live has pretty intense heat and cold waves, and HID lighting is simply too hot to use, even with cool tubes. That on top of the height issue (24 in for the light/reflector and AC, and 24 in to the plant canopy, well im out of room.

Im pretty confident in alot of the newer LED systems out there. I know theres ALOT of crap manufacturers out there, and even more who just dont know what they are doing. But I have a couple friends running some LED systems and they say they are getting equivalent yields and slightly more resinous bud.

Let me be clear, I cant vouch for any of that since I havent seen any of their grows or before/afters. Just sampled some of the LED product, and it is top shelf my friend.

Thank you for all the help with the thread man btw.

Stay away from hydro then.

Maybe soil or coco.

- Jiji

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Will read up on the above. Also going to get back to the geometry and graph paper and see if I can figure out a way to make this more efficient.

I have looked at the ebb/flow way of doing things. some of the reasons Im opting with LED and DWC is temp. My location is, well, vertically limited and also not part of an HVAC system. Where I live has pretty intense heat and cold waves, and HID lighting is simply too hot to use, even with cool tubes. That on top of the height issue (24 in for the light/reflector and AC, and 24 in to the plant canopy, well im out of room.

Im pretty confident in alot of the newer LED systems out there. I know theres ALOT of crap manufacturers out there, and even more who just dont know what they are doing. But I have a couple friends running some LED systems and they say they are getting equivalent yields and slightly more resinous bud.

Let me be clear, I cant vouch for any of that since I havent seen any of their grows or before/afters. Just sampled some of the LED product, and it is top shelf my friend.

Thank you for all the help with the thread man btw.

How tall is your ceiling? I am familiar with basement grows. That many plants are going to need serious dehumidification or ventilation. Odor control is an issue too. DWC is going to need cooler water temps.

Just start with something like one 4x4 and get a feel for things. One can have a flood and drain setup at low profile.

 

[Miley T]

As far as ventilation goes, we are going to seal the entire enclosure in black vapor barrier to assist with environmental control and odor. Standard inline fan/carbon filter setup on one end of the grow and an intake at the other end. Going to try and keep the room under negative pressure by regulating the intake and exhaust and keeping exhaust slightly higher cf/m. Each grow "section" we will call them (still running over what would be most efficient use of space without crowding plants) will be similarly sealed with black plastic and mylar reflective insides (DIY tent) and interconnected via ducting to a breather room where i will be running dehumid/ac/heat and nutrient control, and im thinking of keeping the mothers in here too. That will save me on building/separating a separate space.

So snaps, you seem to be a pretty big proponent of ebb/flow (filldrain) hydro. what other advantages are we looking at with it other than less nutrient solution needed and all the pre-manufactured equipment to build ebbflow/filldrain systems.

Why do you suggest coco Jiji? And specifically why do you suggest against hydro?

Thanx again guys.

EDIT: Although starting small and building up once i get the system down would be wiser for sure, Im kinda on a time schedule. This herb has about 20 patients waiting on it so they can stop trying to mail mmj from Denver. They are all risking some hefty time because where I live on the East Coast, not only is the "street variety" loud mostly sativa or sativa dominant (haze rage in the south) but its quality is never consistent. This op is mostly non-profit ( gotta cover costs of course, but I have a few benefactors for the cause) and medical in nature (reasoning for sog style hydro, LED spectrums and, im looking at Fox Farm Organic hydro nutes). Thats why im kinda rushed.

 

[SnapsProvolone]

You can homebuild a flood and drain table and res with pond liner.

Nutrient temps and oxygen levels not as critical in f&d.

No air stones plugging up.

No chillers.

Low maintenance (less werk)

 

[Miley T]

Ceiling ranges from 4ft to 5ft in a gradual slope. Going to be doing some excavation to bring ceiling height closer to 5.5-6ft and level (more if needed).

 

[SnapsProvolone]

Ouch. Thats tight.

May not help but look at this image

https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/marijuana-plant-problems/3007880d1393499219-treating-hmv-tmv-using-rna-20140211_213141.jpg

 

[jijiandfarmgang]

Because of your lack of environmental control, I think your setting yourself up for failure.

Coco can yield some serious plants and is more forgivable.

I watched a noob grow 72 five foot plants and yeild less than an oz. of seedy bud.

Sometimes less is more.

- Jiji

 

[Miley T]

Ouch. Thats tight.

May not help but look at this image

https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/marijuana-plant-problems/3007880d1393499219-treating-hmv-tmv-using-rna-20140211_213141.jpg

Oooh gorgeous setup. I like how simple and clean. Ill def be looking into ebb flow more here. Hitting crunch time. Got a couple weeks to get everything. Any suggestions on DIY Ebb/flow threads?

Because of your lack of environmental control, I think your setting yourself up for failure.

Coco can yield some serious plants and is more forgivable.

I watched a noob grow 72 five foot plants and yeild less than an oz. of seedy bud.

Sometimes less is more.

- Jiji

We have decided to rewire the enviro. Piggybacking off of houses HVAC. Turns out builder put in a model thats rated for an extra 3-500sqft on top of what its putting out. Going to run intake/exhaust directly to AC (inlines to pull air from system and pull through CF). Mix that with a good deal on insulation and I think we are set.

Due to the "subterranean nature" of this op, the cooling will actually be easier. After research, the ground temp stays between 6-70f about 1 ft down, so all we are going to really have to worry about is heat in the winter. Much easier.

I have also done some research on the coco. Promising results.

As for seedy buds, correct me if im wrong, but that just means somone isnt paying attention to their girls, or they have shitty hermied up genetics... Are you suggesting that the more forgiving nature of coco (and soil-like/imitation mediums) will result in less plant stress and less likely hermied plants?

Just for the record. New to RIU, not "new" to canna. This is first attempt at a non- closet, hydro grow.

 

[Miley T]

Hey snaps, can you post the size/specs for that table? Its slim form/integrated rez, and size look tops for the grow space im working with. Looked through your posts. Couldnt find anything on it, and I have to be off to work here soon.