Helicopters and FLIR detection

T

telecaster

Active Member
Hey guys I'm setting up my first grow it's a 4x4 grow tent with a 600w hps/mh dual spectrum lamp and I'm using a cooltube setup. I was originally going to put the tent in a bedroom but would rather hide it so I was thinking the garage would be far better but I've heard of heat being an issue and I have helicopters fly over my neighborhood almost every weekend so I'm a bit paranoid about flir and all their other crap. I'd assume they're probably looking for weed as well they get real low at times not sure what else they'd be doing.

Can they see my 600w hps/mh setup?
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
they can only see the heat, so divert it down into a crawl space or disperse in an attic where the insulation throws it off. The best thing to do is just use some of the reflective bubble wrap, wrap your grow box and exhaust manifold with it and pipe it right into the ground g. those machines cant see shit if you use proper reflective insulation. man, you must be in a shitty ass state to be so worried about 600w!

http://www.energyefficientsolutions.com/bubble-radiant-barrier.asp?item=RBDBDF4875&gclid=CNuF0N6Kib0CFbFFMgod5xoAmQ
 
vostok

vostok

Well-Known Member
No chopper is permitted under 500 ft(AGL) unless landing or taking off...any other times email with pics the FAA/Caa, ...go to your local Home Depot and rent a flir, used in home insulation detection
 
SableZen

SableZen

Well-Known Member
I seriously doubt you'll have to worry about a single 600w when it comes to IR. Your average dryer vent or even window AC unit is going to put out more heat than a 600w... and you'd have to be doing something seriously wrong if it's heating up a room or rooms to the point that the heat generated would be radiating from the outside walls/roof to the point of being suspicious.

It's really the guys that are running large dedicated rooms, or multiple rooms, with a lots of wattage that would have to worry about FLIR.

And by the way, that IR reflective material you see being sold to put around your reflector/hood... completely pointless when it comes to FLIR as IR doesn't even travel through glass/windows well - let alone your roof, insulation, ceiling, tent, etc in between the light source and outside. What you have to worry about with FLIR are the outside surfaces of your dwelling and exhaust going outside (if you are large-scale).
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
As everyone has stated a 600w light will not attract attention imo. But better paranoid and free lol. Someone suggested blowing into attic but that would just heat the roof, not a good thing lol. But again a 600 is only 1800btu's so not much heat. 10 of em and I'd be concerned lol.
 
stsin

stsin

Well-Known Member
Legality depends on where you live, but unless I'm seriously out of date in the US back around 2001 the supremes decided that police couldn't use FLIR without a warrant. (Canda more recently said go ahead and use it all you want) Edt: Here's the case: In 2001, the United States Supreme Court decided that performing surveillance of private property (ostensibly to detect high emission grow lights used in clandestine cannabis farming) using thermal imaging cameras without a search warrant by law enforcement violates the Fourth Amendment's protection from unreasonable searches and seizures. Kyllo v. United States, 533 U.S. 27, 121 S.Ct. 2038, 150 L.Ed.2d 94 (2001).[SUP][4][/SUP]

There we go, from wikipedia article on flir. So your options if you're out of the US and paranoid are as others said route the heat out somewhere (chimney say...), use the heat for something else, or get flir blocking mylar like film (name escapes me, but it's pricey) AND route the heat elsewhere ;)
 
T

telecaster

Active Member
cheers guys I live in Australia (no medical laws/not legal to grow here) I have no idea whether they ignore small grows or not but I'd rather not take my chances! The tent will be in a room 4x10 meters in size so it's a pretty big room if I just vent the air out directly into the room surely the heat will dissipate and not accumilate? The garage is well insulated too (seems hotter than the house at night despite being only made of brick) not sure if that helps or not haha but it never gets cold!
 
D

dannyboy44

Well-Known Member
Allowed height depends on situation per F.A.A. regs:

§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

a. Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

b. Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

c. Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

d. Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph B or C of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

§ 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.

a. Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

b. Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

2. Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.



Special attention to paragraph d. Pretty much down to the ground if no safety issue !!


Regardless I cannot imagine 600 W putting out a heat signature of such a magnitude to draw undo attention.

If that worried reconsider if you want (need) to grow.
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
SableZen said:
I seriously doubt you'll have to worry about a single 600w when it comes to IR. Your average dryer vent or even window AC unit is going to put out more heat than a 600w... and you'd have to be doing something seriously wrong if it's heating up a room or rooms to the point that the heat generated would be radiating from the outside walls/roof to the point of being suspicious.

It's really the guys that are running large dedicated rooms, or multiple rooms, with a lots of wattage that would have to worry about FLIR.

And by the way, that IR reflective material you see being sold to put around your reflector/hood... completely pointless when it comes to FLIR as IR doesn't even travel through glass/windows well - let alone your roof, insulation, ceiling, tent, etc in between the light source and outside. What you have to worry about with FLIR are the outside surfaces of your dwelling and exhaust going outside (if you are large-scale).
Click to expand...

That ir reflective material does wonders for locking the heat inside your hood in an air cooled system. it prevents the heat from dissapating into the room!
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
vostok said:
600w at night in an attic back in 2007

View attachment 3019958
movin in


View attachment 3019959
Click to expand...
yeah, a poorly insulated old attic isnt protection from flir. that grower should have piped the heat back into his Central Air system , especially in the winter. Plus, ir reflective material lining the attic would have made this invisible all the time, all the camera can see is heat. computers are dumb guys, dont forget
 
DankkAbuser

DankkAbuser

Member
That being said will my 400w cooltube in a 3x3x6 tent create alot of visible heat for choppers
if i vent my tent into my bedrooms air
Tent is in my bedroom
and i live 2 bloks from airport
 
SableZen

SableZen

Well-Known Member
igothydrotoneverywhere said:
That ir reflective material does wonders for locking the heat inside your hood in an air cooled system. it prevents the heat from dissapating into the room!
Click to expand...
I'm sure there's a slight efficiency gain with moving the heat out of a tent or room - but it's not actually hiding heat in any way or reducing the total amount of heat in any - the same amount of heat still has to pumped around and either vented directly outside or inside somewhere. So what's the point when it comes to FLIR specifically? You lighting fixture itself is simply not going to be visible with IR cameras, with or without IR reflective material on it, unless it's sitting outside in the yard. Hell, even your ballast, clothes dryer, oven, and computer probably get hotter than your air-cooled light fixture. It's only the heat that radiates from the external surfaces of the dwelling or from the venting if going outside that's going to be visible.

I run a ceramics kiln indoors that gets up to ~2,300 F and maintains that temp for long periods of time and it never heats up even one room, let alone multiple rooms + roof like the one in that FLIR posted below... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there's no possible way that's a single 600w light bulb in that FLIR pictures. Hell I have more than 600w of standard incandescent lighting on in my house right at this moment which generates even more heat than a single 600w HPS/MH...
 
igothydrotoneverywhere

igothydrotoneverywhere

Well-Known Member
SableZen said:
I'm sure there's a slight efficiency gain with moving the heat out of a tent or room - but it's not actually hiding heat in any way or reducing the total amount of heat in any - the same amount of heat still has to pumped around and either vented directly outside or inside somewhere. So what's the point when it comes to FLIR specifically? You lighting fixture itself is simply not going to be visible with IR cameras, with or without IR reflective material on it, unless it's sitting outside in the yard. Hell, even your ballast, clothes dryer, oven, and computer probably get hotter than your air-cooled light fixture. It's only the heat that radiates from the external surfaces of the dwelling or from the venting if going outside that's going to be visible.

I run a ceramics kiln indoors that gets up to ~2,300 F and maintains that temp for long periods of time and it never heats up even one room, let alone multiple rooms + roof like the one in that FLIR posted below... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there's no possible way that's a single 600w light bulb in that FLIR pictures. Hell I have more than 600w of standard incandescent lighting on in my house right at this moment which generates even more heat than a single 600w HPS/MH...
Click to expand...
you are right it doesnt do anything to reduce overall heat output, just get it out of the room before it heats up the place, the difference we saw was around 25-35% cooling efficiency, put your hand on top of your air cooled hood, all that heat is cooking your plants, just tape pieces of reflective bubble insulation all over your hoods and ducting system, it works wonders.

kilns put off heat for sure, but they are very insulated with thick walls of ceramic locking in the heat to save electrical efficiency which is great for firing ceramics. one way of being absolutely sure that the bulbs are burning hotter is by looking at the heating elements, a kiln has a steel electrical rod element, a bulb is an electrical fire controlled by a switch and gas! bulbs have to be exhausted to keep cool. I guarantee the temperature created by the fire of hps bulb is WAY WAY WAY hotter than 2300 degree kiln, probably 2 or 3x hotter.
 
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