Airplanes don't just fall out of the sky

Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
No, not 10 seconds. Maybe 4 at the outside. But, remember, there are snap roll physics, that may have occurred. A plane's turn is based on speed. Just like a car.

So, they may not have seen the beginning of a turn back. The may have seen the beginning of a snap roll and wing over. In that case, decent rates become unusually high.

And the next paint in 4 secs could been of a low radar aspect, no transponder enhancement and they missed it. Or the reporting was incorrect.

Don Rumsfeld - "Never believe the first reports without verification."
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
robert 14617 said:
terminal velocity straight into the drink wouldn't leave many big pieces floating around to be picked up
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Parts flutter around some. But, only the big sections, like the tail will float if they are not pierced.

It is a long fall from 500 mph and 35K feet. But, everything "fall" at a different rate.




Also, the Air France AirBus was intact when it hit and in a flat spin stall that keep the captain back in the toilet and the co-pilot not able to relax his monkey grip of PULL UP PULL UP.

You cannot do that when stalled. You have to PUSH DOWN PUSH DOWN. Get airspeed, fly out of the stall. So, that is a very sad one and the one thing we all know we do when in panic. We stop thinking.

This one seems to be a lot different. And tiz true there are conditions you can get into that will just snap off the wings. It is only a 2 Gravity, airframe.

Pull 5 gees, there goes the wings. Easy enough to get that, in an un-commanded snap roll. And there are a lot of failures of the control surfaces, that can do that.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
Parts flutter around some. But, only the big sections, like the tail will float if they are not pierced.

It is a long fall from 500 mph and 35K feet. But, everything "fall" at a different rate.




Also, the Air France AirBus was intact when it hit and in a flat spin stall that keep the captain back in the toilet and the co-pilot not able to relax his monkey grip of PULL UP PULL UP.

You cannot do that when stalled. You have to PUSH DOWN PUSH DOWN. Get airspeed, fly out of the stall. So, that is a very sad one and the one thing we all know we do when in panic. We stop thinking.

This one seems to be a lot different. And tiz true there are conditions you can get into that will just snap off the wings. It is only a 2 Gravity, airframe.

Pull 5 gees, there goes the wings. Easy enough to get that, in an un-commanded snap roll. And there are a lot of failures of the control surfaces, that can do that.
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Is it even possible for a Airliner to travel at 500MPH at a an altitude under 8,000 feet?
nope.

Skylard thinks the plane went into the water in one piece, she obviously doesn't know that hitting water at terminal velocity is not a cushy landing, its just like running into the ground. Ever seen a commercial plane hit the ground at terminal velocity and stay intact?
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;-KNbKFMBsQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KNbKFMBsQE[/video]

It's a chandelle, not a barrel roll.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
Well, I just heard a weird report from the Malaysia Air Force. They claim they have a Military Radar track for 20 minutes on a different course, after Center lost contact.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
No, not 10 seconds. Maybe 4 at the outside. But, remember, there are snap roll physics, that may have occurred. A plane's turn is based on speed. Just like a car.

So, they may not have seen the beginning of a turn back. The may have seen the beginning of a snap roll and wing over. In that case, decent rates become unusually high.

And the next paint in 4 secs could been of a low radar aspect, no transponder enhancement and they missed it. Or the reporting was incorrect.

Don Rumsfeld - "Never believe the first reports without verification."
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bravo, doer:clap:

this is what i've been thinking.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Here is the real million dollar question

In this day and age we live, GPS (other radio triangulation methods as well) can track your smartphone to within a few meters, anywhere on Earth. Why not aircraft's such as the Boeing 777 constantly transmitting all of their black box data, so that we know their exact location, bearing, altitude, and other important factors, at all times ? Why are we still relying on this old age method of the black box which ULB only pings signals within certain miles ( like 2-4 )
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
Here is the real million dollar question

In this day and age we live, GPS (other radio triangulation methods as well) can track your smartphone to within a few meters, anywhere on Earth. Why not aircraft's such as the Boeing 777 constantly transmitting all of their black box data, so that we know their exact location, bearing, altitude, and other important factors, at all times ? Why are we still relying on this old age method of the black box which ULB only pings signals within certain miles ( like 2-4 )
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They know more than this tell and this is a Terror investigation. The plane may be underground in North Korea for all we know.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Doer said:
They know more than this tell and this is a Terror investigation. The plane may be underground in North Korea for all we know.
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I'm sure they know more then they are telling, but it still does not answer the question as to way aircrafts still use an outdated system like FDR or even the CVR ( cockpit voice recorder ). Crazy as hell in this day and age.
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
My brother was a designer of flight data recorders, and the problem is getting the new tech certified for use.
 
W

Wilksey

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
Here is the real million dollar question

In this day and age we live, GPS (other radio triangulation methods as well) can track your smartphone to within a few meters, anywhere on Earth. Why not aircraft's such as the Boeing 777 constantly transmitting all of their black box data, so that we know their exact location, bearing, altitude, and other important factors, at all times ? Why are we still relying on this old age method of the black box which ULB only pings signals within certain miles ( like 2-4 )
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Ca$h, among other reasons.

The "business" of flight is expensive as hell, due to fluctuating operating and maintenance expenses.

Upgrading older birds would mean the acquisition of new radios capable of using satellites as a communications relay, which isn't cheap. Add the cost for the antenna, and any costs associated with upgrading the bird to fit and provide power for the radio / antenna, the co$t of maintaining and using the frequency spectrum associated with satellite communications, and shit starts to add up pretty fast. Given the narrow to non-existent profit margin of a typical airline, I can see why they wouldn't retrofit their fleets.

The Air France Airbus 330, that went down over the Atlantic, had such a system, and those birds send maintenance reports back to their "base" like every 10 minutes or so. That kind of system will probably be a requirement for all commercial birds some time in the future.
 
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schuylaar

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Is it even possible for a Airliner to travel at 500MPH at a an altitude under 8,000 feet?
nope.

Skylard thinks the plane went into the water in one piece, she obviously doesn't know that hitting water at terminal velocity is not a cushy landing, its just like running into the ground. Ever seen a commercial plane hit the ground at terminal velocity and stay intact?
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where did i say that? i have money on the jungle.
 
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