Greengenes Apache AT600 Garden- Blackberry Kush
- Thread starter Greengenes707
- Start date
no dividers? What changed? Kind of defeats the purpose of a no bullshit head to head 1000 hid vs a 600 apache doesn't it? Don't get me wrong, you will grow the best bud that way so I'm with ya but it is no longer a head to head, it's just another grow. That sucks, was looking forward to it.
Cococola36
Well-Known Member
Wow those plants are looking prime time for 3 leds being used, I must say impressed with apache on that! Whats the coverage around 3x3 per unit?
Have you ever grown with a 1000 hps? LED throws light down, HID throws light everywhere if it's not contained and 1000s throw plenty of light outside a 4x4, he will have the best grow with no dividers, but it's no longer a head to head. The hps will increase the yields of both other lights, but its own yield will suffer by wasting light, and the led won't throw it any light. HID/LED combo will grow the best bud but thats been done and isn't a no bullshit head to head to see if a $2400 led will beat a $500 hid in the same environment/time frame. I was looking forward to it because he sounded like one of the few guys here who would document an honest head to head.
"its own yield will suffer by wasting light"
Thats one of the primary weakness of HID point light sources. It also depends an awfull lot on what reflector\hood is used.
No matter what happens your not going to get a significant definitive answer with 4x4 squares even if they are isolated. To get what you want you would have to run 3 4x4 contiguous blocks with identical lighting and only count the performance of the center block. That means running a row of three for each type of light. way overkill
Thats one of the primary weakness of HID point light sources. It also depends an awfull lot on what reflector\hood is used.
No matter what happens your not going to get a significant definitive answer with 4x4 squares even if they are isolated. To get what you want you would have to run 3 4x4 contiguous blocks with identical lighting and only count the performance of the center block. That means running a row of three for each type of light. way overkill
If a $2400 apache will beat a $500 hid there can't be overlap, hid throwing light isn't a downfall, it's a great thing with multiple lights and easily remedied in a single light set up by enclosing the area. The test was supposed to be in a 4x4 while maintaining real world plans counts, not Cali style. I get it if he doesn't want to do the head to head, I completely understand, but unless they are separated it's not a head to head, it's a biased grow that will penalize the hid and benefit the led. If he just wants to do a great grow, then the combo will be the best way to go, but it's just another hid/LED combo grow that will do nothing to support apache claims
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
If you watched the update I explain everything about why I choose and do what I do. I am a grower...not apache...I do this for my own fun/interest/growing/knowledge. But I did say I wold do it so let me work some shit out.
Just a note, if you look at a par chart you would see that a 1000w doesn't actually throw much light outside a 4x4...and that the at600 is designed to match it fairly well...and outside it is matching it too, but to horticulturist outside that coverage is't up to par...and thus isn't advertised. But the apache puts out plenty of light outside it relatively speaking with 1000w.
The only way I can divide it up is only with one divider, any more and my room won't function correctly. So that is where I am coming into the problem of
I am not asking your permission, but since you are a true critic, what would you say to the validity of it if I divide just the 1000w and apache. Then instead of the IG I will run other apache's same spectrum(R2) over the additional 4x4 I added??
Ya about. I have them all(12) in the 4x8 portion but only using 3x8 of it. But the spread out to use 4x12 pretty close. That was the first time I spread them all out last night.
You are right, you do not need my permission, that is why I said what I said the way I said it, no dividers will be the best grow, but not a head to head. I could honestly give a shit less, I'd like for everyone else to see a legit documented head to head by a good grower so they have real info to base their purchase on but I've already seen it done, watt for watt led will yield more in a traditional grow, that's it. By all means, it's your grow, do whatever you want, but don't call it a head to head when it's not. 1000s grow plenty of bud outside a 4x4 footprint
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Well if I use all apache's I don't see how it wouldn't be...it would be 4x8 worth of apache's and 4x4 worth of hps. And since the hps is the one on trial in my garden...seems fair enough to still dawn the title of side by size. And I have not called it a head to head. A side by side yes...which is exactly what it is. Even in subs garden with 4K hps that usually covers his whole garden...when he put the lush up there was a noticeable difference.
And where and who was the "head to head" you saw??
and just because your eyes tell you light is outside that...doesn't mean it's very much.
When red/blue led's are used it looks like a shit ton of light everywhere too, but the data for both hps and led show differently.
I'm honestly not here to argue with you, side by side or head to head, what's the difference, same shit, you don't think a 1000 hps will help the apache in a side by side with no divider & think a 1000 hps is only good for a 4x4 then there's no point to argue with you. Do what you want, I wouldn't do it either if I were in your shoes. Either way, no dividers would be the best grow, just not a comparison of what each will do on its own
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
I am saying that there could be a divider up between the 1000 and the AT...just not between the extra 4x4 and the rest of the garden(hps and AT)
Then keep it even, the 600 on 1 side with 1 of your smaller apaches & the 1000 on the other side with 1 of your smaller apaches, 6 plants per side in a 4x6 instead of 4 in a 4x4, same amount of lights, no overlap, problem solved
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
You just aren't understanding it, never mind. I guess you have to find some one else to do your perfect head to head. I could care less at this point.
I think my way will just fine if not better for most. The differences in the lights will be clearly shown. Don't come into the my new thread bitching about anything...you are clearly warned it's not going to be completely isolated so live with it for what it is.
I think my way will just fine if not better for most. The differences in the lights will be clearly shown. Don't come into the my new thread bitching about anything...you are clearly warned it's not going to be completely isolated so live with it for what it is.
Im not bitching at all, I just gave you a perfect solution where the 1000 wouldnt touch the 600 with 1 divider and 6 plants per side instead of 4 and an equal second light. Simple. And I do get it, there is no logistical problem with the solution I provided
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Maybe. Is there a heat difference with gavita ballasts vs other digi or mag ballasts?. Have a small fan mounted next to the ballast. Pointed at the ballast. Metal cools quickly with a fan. I used to have a 4 inch fan (bright colored metal ones at walmart) sitting on top of my quantum 1000w. It cooled down pretty quick. The internal fan blew heat out of the ballast though. My buddy does the same with lumateks and the little fan works pretty good
maybe throw up a CMH instead since the vs idea is kind of over and get better results and less heat.. I'm still thinking of throwing up a 330 again, after I get a few more panels.
just ignore beetle juices posts. He doesn't understand how important airflow is and how dividers will prevent air flow. Plus he always has to get the last word. So just ignore and don't reply.
maybe throw up a CMH instead since the vs idea is kind of over and get better results and less heat.. I'm still thinking of throwing up a 330 again, after I get a few more panels.
just ignore beetle juices posts. He doesn't understand how important airflow is and how dividers will prevent air flow. Plus he always has to get the last word. So just ignore and don't reply.
Scotch089
Well-Known Member
SO. how about that new thread..! lol.
Do you thing brother G, lay over or not- we will be able to tell where the core area's are lit.
You ARE going to run the IG-420? I liked the idea of putting it in the center,
-segregates the AT and HID
-Balanced spectrum that both other lights can benefit from (white and reds..)
-IG's, or EDFL lighting- isnt quite as intense? correct? So crossover will not be as much of a factor- more for mixing the spectrum along the way
Im curious to see the IG on the forefront, I can only imagine how cool those things run and I love the color...
Hope youre doing well!!
Do you thing brother G, lay over or not- we will be able to tell where the core area's are lit.
You ARE going to run the IG-420? I liked the idea of putting it in the center,
-segregates the AT and HID
-Balanced spectrum that both other lights can benefit from (white and reds..)
-IG's, or EDFL lighting- isnt quite as intense? correct? So crossover will not be as much of a factor- more for mixing the spectrum along the way
Im curious to see the IG on the forefront, I can only imagine how cool those things run and I love the color...
Hope youre doing well!!
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Gavita can run remote ballast, which is what I would do with the AC hood. But that is a pricey hps to run for one run.
I just got a great deal on a solis tek so going with that.
I just got a great deal on a solis tek so going with that.
hyroot
Well-Known Member
my buddy that has a 10 1000w garden . Within one week. All the solistek chords and coils melted. Like the lumateks used to do. This was last August. He returned them and went with quantums. which imo is better and is also cheaper. Solis tek lies about bulb spectrum and cri. Who knows what b.s. They conjured up with the ballasts