CALLING ALL Californians

Mithrandir420 said:
Serious question: Are there enough growers out there that if they vote no, will swing the vote?
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It's not just the votes of the growers. It's the votes of the whole community which growers have a great influence over. Growers start rumors that legalization is just big cannabis taking over, people start repeating that rumor and pretty soon it seems credible.

The result is a lot less votes but also less donations and less volunteers. Legalization can't win without support of the community.

Opportunities in a legal market. I am unsure on this one. If legalization regs allow smaller commercial ops, say 10 - 20 K flowering watts, and the permit fees are kept under 5K, I can open a legal grow op. But beyond that would be of my reach in terms of start up money.
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There is no law against being a small business. Nothing in the law says you need a million dollars or a dispensary to be a legal business. They limit the permit fees. It will just be a lot of work to apply for the permits and you'll likely have to meet city planning codes. I've been through all that. It's hard. But if you really want it you can do it if you're willing to take on the extra work.
 
Mithrandir420 said:
I never said I wasn't considering other factors such as releasing people from jail. That's another subject.
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It's not another subject when talking about CCHI. CCHI does that. It's not just about business legalization. This initiative is about people as much as it is making money. It's as good of a legalization bill as you're ever going to see.

But be serious, everyone needs to make a living. Everyone needs a retirement account, unless you like working when you're 80. I am asking for peoples' opinions because I truly do not know what other opportunities there are. I work for a large company in the IT department. I am not a closet grower selling to dispensaries. I am not in the industry, I don't have the inside info that some people like you and DanKone have. This is why I asked.My grow is personal and medical and legal. I am looking at opportunities because I would like to not work for a large corp anymore. That I am asking these things does not mean that I am disregarding anything else or being "super selfish".
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Well if you want to start your own business you can with CCHI. It will be more about how much time and effort you're willing to put into it than costs.

While I never mentioned closet growers, how much money you can stand to make or lose is still a very important question. Everyone needs to make a living. And it's the garage and small warehouse growers that have been the backbone of this industry for 30 years. We can at least give them a tip of the hat while we put them out of business.
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I started out as a guerrilla grower. I used the money I made there to fund a 4x4 hydro table. Used the money from that to buy the materials necessary to make a shitty ghetto greenhouse. Used the money from that to fund a garage grow, etc, etc, etc. I'm not special. I didn't have any special advantage that any other person didn't have access to. I worked my way to the top. Any of the other closet/garage growers could have done the same thing. If they get pushed out it's on them. We can't slow halt progress for their benefit.

But that's all besides the point because CCHI does give them that tip of the hat. It allows them to have their own person grows. It allows them to have 10 pounds without being busted. And most importantly it takes away the cops biggest weapon. These days the most common way of people getting busted is a cop saying "I smell marijuana" as probable cause to search your car or your house without a warrant. Legalization takes that away. They can't search you because they smell a legal product. That's huge if you're a grower or dealer.
 
Red1966 said:
Land growing hemp won't grow trees. Land growing trees will get cut down to plant hemp. I think you got it backwards.
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Nope. Even if you did have to cut down trees to do it (which I dispute) you'd make up for that loss in the first year of farming. For paper production you get 4x as much paper off an acre of hemp than you do an acre of trees and with hemp you can farm it each year.

For that use and several others it's far more efficient than tree farming.
 
Dan Kone said:
It's laziness IMO. If people would get off their asses and form their own legal companies they wouldn't have anything to worry about when it comes to legalization. A lot of growers want to get paid like professionals but don't want to act like professionals. They want to kick back and get high all day, work their garden for an hour or two a night, then live the life. I'd like that too, but that's not the way the real world works.

If you want to remain a professional grower, you have to act like you're running a business. Many just act like they are drug dealers. These are the same people who constantly complain about "big marijuana corporations taking over". Preventing "big cannabis" from pushing you out of the business isn't complicated, it's just a lot of work that people aren't willing to do.

As of now "big cannabis" doesn't even exist. A dispensary isn't big cannabis. It's just a store. It might look big to some people but in reality it's not. Phillip Morris isn't coming to take over with their mythical Marlboro Greens. Those never existed. This is all just a tactic a lot of growers use to keep cannabis a black market product so they can make money without actually having to work 40 hours a week.

I don't care if people want to be black market growers/dealers. If that's the life that works best for them then I wish them the best of luck. It has no effect on me, I'm good with it. But I don't want to go to jail or even be treated like a criminal so they can live the life. I also want all those black market and medical growers/sellers released from jail and their records erased because I don't think they should be criminals either. I think black market growing/selling should be a civil offense payable by fine instead of jail. It should be a ticket like speeding.

This version of legalization actually does most of that. It frees people from jail and erases their records. Many of these people are no different from you or me, they just got unlucky. This could have happened to any of us if we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They deserve freedom.

It's profoundly selfish to oppose freeing these people from jail because people are too lazy to treat growing as a real career.
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couldnt have said it better myself......dont even need to add anything. let the uneducated, anti-legal cannabis growers slangin pot so they can buy 25 pairs of jordans and gucci belts every week find their own way. but i plan on doing some real good and helping as many as i can when legalization comes. sooo many potential business opportunities i cant wait!!

i will add that i am scared of big tobacco coming in and doing exactly what they did to tobacco.....there really isnt anything stopping that from happening except the people standing up against them

Mithrandir420 said:
I never said I wasn't considering other factors such as releasing people from jail. That's another subject. But be serious, everyone needs to make a living. Everyone needs a retirement account, unless you like working when you're 80. I am asking for peoples' opinions because I truly do not know what other opportunities there are. I work for a large company in the IT department. I am not a closet grower selling to dispensaries. I am not in the industry, I don't have the inside info that some people like you and DanKone have. This is why I asked.My grow is personal and medical and legal. I am looking at opportunities because I would like to not work for a large corp anymore. That I am asking these things does not mean that I am disregarding anything else or being "super selfish".

While I never mentioned closet growers, how much money you can stand to make or lose is still a very important question. Everyone needs to make a living. And it's the garage and small warehouse growers that have been the backbone of this industry for 30 years. We can at least give them a tip of the hat while we put them out of business.

Maybe you're reading too much into my posts.
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oh please dont think i was directing that at you, i was just making a general statement....not at all calling you out. im also not connected like you say. For anybody who is growing for personal use, the laws are enough. i think if people are really honest with themselves the legal grow limits are definitely enough for a single person lol....that is my opinion but i tend to see too much of growers complaining about the fact that they will not be able to grow as much and shit like that....are they really worried that they wont be able to provide for their medicinal needs(which they can prove they need more than the limits allow if they can prove it's necessary) or pleasure smoking, or worried that they wont be able to make as much money? and growers and users alike need to look at the bigger picture, and it is that cannabis should be legal to grow and smoke for everybody. there needs to be some sort of regulation as well as restriction(children)......laws can be altered tho, maybe it is easier said than done but what is more important: cannabis finally being legal, or keeping it illegal because of the money?

by the way i also dont think a legal market will be the people who really know what theyre doing out of business......serious growers who do it for a living will prosper, they will make a way for themselves as they have all along because they are self-reliant and know they are good at what they do....there is definitely a demand for talented/educated/experienced growers. look at all the new types of businesses and industries popping up as a result of WA and CO legalizing. being able to grow weed doesnt end when we are legal.

lastly, i just gotta say this: cali shits on everybody. legal ca is going to bring so much money to the state it's ridiculous, not to mention no more criminal records for cannabis!!! i would never want to travel to CO or amsterdam for weed when cali is legal lol, the best shit comes out of cali and the west coast....it's going to be awesome to see what we do here in ca when we're legal
 
Dan Kone said:
This is a big problem. Growers vote no on legalization unless they see profits.

IMO it's not big business acting shady when it comes to legalization, it's growers.
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Prop 19 that got voted down in 2010. If passed ..You were allowed to posses up to one ounce. Only grow in a 5x5 at most. Anything more than that would have been a felony. It would have been a felony to transport any amount even a gram. Medical recs would have been negated or void. The only one that would have been legally allowed to sell to a dispensary would had to have a state growers license. Only 2 were being issued . One to Richard Lee ( wrote the bill and owner of oaksterdam) and philip morris (big tobacco)

thats the shady bill I voted no on. It would have fucked us all if it passed. It was carefully drafted to line the pockets of Richard Lee and fuck every one else.

if what ever petition becomes a bill. If its anything like that, i will vote no again.. Most bills have a hidden agenda. You have to read the whole bill entirely and not listen to media or hype or other people.



philip morris and r.j. reynolds own land all over colorado. Acquired said land before the legaliztion bill was ever written..
 
Thanks for the info, guys. I appreciate it.

Miscbrah, thanks for that. I thought that maybe you were thinking that I was an anti legalization closet grower who doesn't care about anything but my own pocket. Glad you don't think that about me.

PJ Diaz, I read it last night and I am reading it again today. When I read these I like to verify that what they are asking to have done is actually do-able. It takes a little time to go through it. :)

Hyroot, that is exactly why I am so suspicious of ALL legalization bills. It's not "big pharma" or tobacco or big anything that I am leery of. It's our very own people that I really worry about. The ones who are the deep insiders who are now advising on marijuana regulation policy. And Prop 19 was bad. There is no denying that.

I am cynical and paranoid, so sue me. And yes, I am very seriously thinking of how I can make a living in the coming new legality. But that is not what I am basing my vote on.

I am leaning towards voting yes.
 
The bill is basically Jack Herer's bill and he's dead, so he doesn't have much to gain personally. Jack was a ganja freedom fighter, plain and simple.
 
PJ Diaz said:
The bill is basically Jack Herer's bill and he's dead, so he doesn't have much to gain personally. Jack was a ganja freedom fighter, plain and simple.
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I am more concerned with what it says and whether or not the provisions in it are actually do-able than I am in who wrote it. (I know who Jack Herrer was.) The legalese in these bills has to be correct and I want to make sure I understand that legalese. Not that I am a lawyer, but if I see something questionable, that I need clarification on I will ask my lawyer friend, or one of my better educated friends to have a look and get their opinion.

Look guys, I am not saying that I am looking fore a reason to vote no. I am looking for reasons to vote yes. That I prefer to know what I am voting on inside and out before I make a decision is something we should all be doing on everything we vote on. And this is huge. We're not talking about a simple zoning measure here.

As I said, as of now I am leaning towards voting yes.
 
Well at the current pace of petition signatures it looks like the bill won't qualify to be on the ballot. There's only three weeks left to petition. If they don't make it, they may try for a second chance but only if they are able to raise $800,000 to hire professional petitioners, but even that only gives them until the end of March.
 
Mithrandir420 said:
I am more concerned with what it says and whether or not the provisions in it are actually do-able than I am in who wrote it. (I know who Jack Herrer was.) The legalese in these bills has to be correct and I want to make sure I understand that legalese. Not that I am a lawyer, but if I see something questionable, that I need clarification on I will ask my lawyer friend, or one of my better educated friends to have a look and get their opinion.
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I'm pretty familiar with cannabis legalese. The original Jack Herer initiative was pretty bad when it came to that. This version isn't. I would say it's airtight. It accounted for all the fundamental flaws we have in 215 and sb415. It was actually very thoughtfully written. It eliminates most of the tools cities/counties use to enact prohibition and caps taxes.
 
I read it I do like it for the most part. I found one interesting thing.

An excise tax (tax or levy on goods) of 10% of the sales price of euphoric cannabis products.

Prohibits tax on all medical cannabis.

So if you have a rec there's no sales tax. if you don't have a rec there is sales tax....?
 
hyroot said:
I read it I do like it for the most part. I found one interesting thing.

An excise tax (tax or levy on goods) of 10% of the sales price of euphoric cannabis products.

Prohibits tax on all medical cannabis.

So if you have a rec there's no sales tax. if you don't have a rec there is sales tax....?
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That is correct. It would also eliminate and additional local taxes on medical.

Since we don't have seed-to-sale like Colorado does there wouldn't be special medical sections like Colorado has. You would just have to show your rec at the counter and you could buy any product tax free.

Seems like that's a problem in Colorado right now. In Colorado you actually have to designate use on every plant and bud. Dispensaries are having separate medical and recreational sales. With the shortages they are having they it appears as if dispensaries are designating all their good stuff as recreational and only having lower grade on the medical side. All the medical counters appear to be ghost towns in Colorado.

On the other hand it may just be those who legit medical conditions don't require top shelf bud. I've yet to hear of a medical condition that requires purple hydro. So many it's ok. Either way, it wouldn't be like that in Cali since we don't have product tracking here.
 
Looks like California legalization will fail again. Rather than try to compromise and come up with a single initiative to put on the ballot, everyone wanted to do it their own way.

4 different initiatives tried to get their agenda on the ballot and it looks like all four will fail to get the necessary number of signatures.

If they could have only found a way to work together they would have easily succeeded.

This is the real reason why we end up with bad laws. A divided community willing to sacrifice everything over minor details. It seems people would rather have prohibition than not get exactly their way.

MLCR is the last initiative left with a chance. Please support the only legalization effort that can actually win.

http://www.marijuanacontrollegalizationrevenueact.com/
 
This sounds like the best one if one had to Chose. I have signed this one. the last two suck.
 
TWS said:
This sounds like the best one if one had to Chose. I have signed this one. the last two suck.
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Best one or not, it's got until June 30th to gather signatures. That makes it the only viable one.

I really liked CCHI, but if you write an initiative without a proper organization around it then it will fail.
 
How many sigs did CCHI miss by ? How many sigs does MCLR have ? And where do you follow this at ?
 
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