Would this be too much P build up?

Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
I am currently using blumats with no run off so I think you guys may have some insight here. The medium is never getting dry, however I noticed some slight curling, and figured it was ph, so wanted to catch it early. I took them to a little manual run off and it was low, around 5.5 (ingoing 5.9 max ) This is week 4 or so, however they have been on around 50 elemental ppm of P over the last two weeks, due to the natural P in the base. I think the P has been building, As far as I know P will lower the coco PH.

I manually fed (about 1.3 ec) to run off at 6.0ph in increments, until the fresh run off was around 5.8. I did not want to use too low an EC, as to not upset the coco balance. As this is week 4, I would assume future build ups of P will subside due to more need for it, while I also intend to keep using 6.0 ph ingoing (rather than 5.8-9 ) to offset the reduction of ph from excess P. While 50 ppm P isn't a lot, I can see how it would build fast, and give a large ph drop over time. I don't mind running a little manual run off once per week to clear out any build ups and reset the PH to a decent range. Would it also be a better idea to set the normal blumat PH a little higher, to say 6.2 ph, and let the P build up slowly swing it down to around 5.8 by the end of the week?.

Is this the correct diagnosis and course of action, or would you suggest something else?
 
Flowki said:
I am currently using blumats with no run off so I think you guys may have some insight here. The medium is never getting dry, however I noticed some slight curling, and figured it was ph, so wanted to catch it early. I took them to a little manual run off and it was low, around 5.5 (ingoing 5.9 max ) This is week 4 or so, however they have been on around 50 elemental ppm of P over the last two weeks, due to the natural P in the base. I think the P has been building, As far as I know P will lower the coco PH.

I manually fed (about 1.3 ec) to run off at 6.0ph in increments, until the fresh run off was around 5.8. I did not want to use too low an EC, as to not upset the coco balance. As this is week 4, I would assume future build ups of P will subside due to more need for it, while I also intend to keep using 6.0 ph ingoing (rather than 5.8-9 ) to offset the reduction of ph from excess P. While 50 ppm P isn't a lot, I can see how it would build fast, and give a large ph drop over time. I don't mind running a little manual run off once per week to clear out any build ups and reset the PH to a decent range. Would it also be a better idea to set the normal blumat PH a little higher, to say 6.2 ph, and let the P build up slowly swing it down to around 5.8 by the end of the week?.

Is this the correct diagnosis and course of action, or would you suggest something else?
Click to expand...
Pictures?
 
curious2garden said:
Pictures?
Click to expand...

Sorry I figured it out, they have suffered some light stress over the last few days, along with the low ph possibly factoring in, as the problem was not just in the stress ranges. Blumat growth caught me off guard (again), but there doesn't appear to be any real damage as of yet.

Can I ask what EC you would run in the first 3 weeks?. From the ph drop I am seing, perhaps I need to step down to maybe 1.0 ec for the first 3 weeks. Or do you think the blumat ph ingoing at 6.2 will be a good plan?, along with a weekly manual feed to run off?. I don't mind doing that, since it will remove the need to be completely spot on with ec amounts.
 
Flowki said:
Sorry I figured it out, they have suffered some light stress over the last few days, along with the low ph possibly factoring in, as the problem was not just in the stress ranges. Blumat growth caught me off guard (again), but there doesn't appear to be any real damage as of yet.

Can I ask what EC you would run in the first 3 weeks?. From the ph drop I am seing, perhaps I need to step down to maybe 1.0 ec for the first 3 weeks. Or do you think the blumat ph ingoing at 6.2 will be a good plan?, along with a weekly manual feed to run off?. I don't mind doing that, since it will remove the need to be completely spot on with ec amounts.
Click to expand...
First three weeks after germination or first three weeks of flower?
 
curious2garden said:
First three weeks after germination or first three weeks of flower?
Click to expand...

Flower, can you recommend a rough ratio and EC range for blumats with no run off?.

I just don't know how low to go with the likes of the calcium nitrate with 0 run off, without getting N or C defs by week 5 or 6. Do you know anywhere I can find these types of values in elemental ppm rates?, rather than over all EC or calmag use?.
 
Flowki said:
Flower, can you recommend a rough ratio and EC range for blumats with no run off?.

I just don't know how low to go with the likes of the calcium nitrate with 0 run off, without getting N or C defs by week 5 or 6. Do you know anywhere I can find these types of values in elemental ppm rates?, rather than over all EC or calmag use?.
Click to expand...
First three weeks of flower I'm roughly 600-800 PPM depending on how the plants are looking.

Are you looking for something like this:

CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

This page provides a common language spoken by all fertilizer solutions and a way to mix them for growing cannabis hydroponically. Sometimes referred to as the Lucas formula, this page explains the true origin of this well known proven formula and the project that led to its discovery. Emphasis...
www.angelfire.com
 
Flowki said:
Flower, can you recommend a rough ratio and EC range for blumats with no run off?.

I just don't know how low to go with the likes of the calcium nitrate with 0 run off, without getting N or C defs by week 5 or 6. Do you know anywhere I can find these types of values in elemental ppm rates?, rather than over all EC or calmag use?.
Click to expand...
I feed Jacks 321 at 1.5-1.8EC from veg till ~2 weeks before harvest before I start tapering down.
 
curious2garden said:
First three weeks of flower I'm roughly 600-800 PPM depending on how the plants are looking.

Are you looking for something like this:

CannaStats - Nutrient Profiles for Cannabis

This page provides a common language spoken by all fertilizer solutions and a way to mix them for growing cannabis hydroponically. Sometimes referred to as the Lucas formula, this page explains the true origin of this well known proven formula and the project that led to its discovery. Emphasis...
www.angelfire.com
Click to expand...

That list has been my only real reference point for a good few years, I was put onto it by somebody on this forum, hell it may have been you (thank you just in case). Unfortunately I do no come across many people on these forums in recent times who are using the same elemental reference, so if I ask a specific elemental ppm of N - P - k, it falls into talk of EC or X product ratio.

I take it you are speaking in elemental ppm there?. Is that for blumats also, or hydro?.

This is what I used when manual feeding with run off, up until around week 3 flower

N 139
P 63 (base provides this)
K 90
C 95
M 55
S 32
Total: 474 ppm

I then step down N nitrate there after, while slightly increasing p-k leading upto week 7 or so, before cutting the over all to 2/3 strength and then to 1/2 for last 2 weeks.

N 90 (ish, depends on leaves)
P 85
K 120
C 40 (ish)
M 55
S 32
Total: 420

By my estimation this is about 1.5 to 1.7 ec with run off.

With blumats and no run off I ran the base at 3/4 strength of usual, and Nitrate at 3/4 of usual (usual is 0.5gpl) for first 3 weeks. This EC I ''think'' is around 1.3 to 1.5 ec. N is starting to show slight building, so that is a lesson for next time, to cut it to 0.25 after week 2 with no run off. This is the type of thing I was hoping to avoid by getting other peoples input with blumats and specific ppm amounts. I do not like to go too low too fast with N as it is also tied to the C. I have no idea what the minimum amount of C is, but I know C def at week 5 is not a good plan.

Does anybody actually know the minimum amount of C for flower?
 
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Flowki said:
That list has been my only real reference point for a good few years, I was put onto it by somebody on this forum, hell it may have been you (thank you just in case). Unfortunately I do no come across many people on these forums in recent times who are using the same elemental reference, so if I ask a specific elemental ppm of N - P - k, it falls into talk of EC or X product ratio.

I take it you are speaking in elemental ppm there?. Is that for blumats also, or hydro?.

This is what I used when manual feeding with run off, up until around week 3 flower

N 139
P 63 (base provides this)
K 90
C 95
M 55
S 32
Total: 474 ppm

I then step down N nitrate there after, while slightly increasing p-k leading upto week 7 or so, before cutting the over all to 2/3 strength and then to 1/2 for last 2 weeks.

N 90 (ish, depends on leaves)
P 85
K 120
C 40 (ish)
M 55
S 32
Total: 420

By my estimation this is about 1.5 to 1.7 ec with run off.

With blumats and no run off I ran the base at 3/4 strength of usual, and Nitrate at 3/4 of usual (usual is 0.5gpl) for first 3 weeks. This EC I ''think'' is around 1.3 to 1.5 ec. N is starting to show slight building, so that is a lesson for next time, to cut it to 0.25 after week 2 with no run off. This is the type of thing I was hoping to avoid by getting other peoples input with blumats and specific ppm amounts. I do not like to go too low too fast with N as it is also tied to the C. I have no idea what the minimum amount of C is, but I know C def at week 5 is not a good plan.

Does anybody actually know the minimum amount of C for flower?
Click to expand...
Blumats are dtw hydro and as for the elemental numbers no I don't know.
 
curious2garden said:
Blumats are dtw hydro and as for the elemental numbers no I don't know.
Click to expand...

Yes it seems like I will have to do weekly run off, similar to res change or top offs. Or else I will have to experiment with bare minimum ppm rates and run the gauntlet of deficiencies ;/. It doesn't look like I can get any heads ups on those rock bottom values then, thanks anyway.
 
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