Why do we hurt the ones we love? (microbes)

So everywhere I look, I see organics people premixing their organic soil.

They let it sit (to let the microbes get to work on the nutrients).

But what happens when you start shoveling it into pots? It tears mycellium threads and disturbs the bacteria.

So is it really ok for us to be injuring the little guys? Yes they broke down some organic materials into nutrients, but how long will it take for them to build up their numbers again and break down the rest of the materials.

Is this only something people do with mixes that contain large amounts of amendments?

I would like to hear opinions and see some citations.

Discuss.

Key advantage of no-till. You're not messing with the established colonies.

Soil gets better after the first generation

Flaming Pie said:

So everywhere I look, I see organics people premixing their organic soil.

They let it sit (to let the microbes get to work on the nutrients).

But what happens when you start shoveling it into pots? It tears mycellium threads and disturbs the bacteria.

So is it really ok for us to be injuring the little guys? Yes they broke down some organic materials into nutrients, but how long will it take for them to build up their numbers again and break down the rest of the materials.

Is this only something people do with mixes that contain large amounts of amendments?

I would like to hear opinions and see some citations.

Discuss.

Click to expand...

precisely why I always age my soil in there final resting pots, always.
If I reamend, well, that what I need to to do every three runs or so.
Another thing people do is apply an AACT after transplant.
Personally I don't worry about it, my plants don't even slow down a day after transplanting, you get the hang of doing that with zero shock.
I don't lose any sleep over my microbial population...
One thing I do which I cant find a way around is applying the vermicastings to the container, I like to reamend compost and vermicompost every run, that stuff is like steroids for my plants.
I've seen some weirdly magical results from my compost... like explosive growth, almost to where I want to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is hydro... from what I've seen, I've never seen a plant in soil explode that fast.
reminds me of when I helped a buddy with a chem/aeroponic grow. Those plants grew like beans

So your saying if you mix a 4 x 4 batch up and allow it to cooking.....breaking that up into (for example) 5 gallon buckets destroys the life they were working so hard to create during the cooking process?

VTMi'kmaq said:

So your saying if you mix a 4 x 4 batch up and allow it to cooking.....breaking that up into (for example) 5 gallon buckets destroys the life they were working so hard to create during the cooking process?

Click to expand...

important to note that a soilweb is different than just microbial populations.
In my brain, I don't see it as a calamity for the microbes when you mix it, yea maybe the soilweb, but if you are mixing your soil, you aren't no till to begin with.
Also important to mention that many of us "no-tillers" aren't strict no till.
I know of many that re-amend/mix eventually.
In containers it's just needed.
If you were in a raised bed? or maybe a gigantic hole in the ground?
Then it's not as crucial, but asking a cannabis plant to flower over and over in a container is asking a lot, if you don't re-amend.
My opinion, anyways.
Food for thought, I have done both methods, and have made an educated decision on re-amending/remixing.
It;s crucial.
not everytime, but at least once a yr

On my last count the dirt bugs had recovered and done so well, much depends on the type of creatures you own, and their diet too,
M_Fungi tears and breaks easily ...but also repairs easy too, takes about 24 hours in ideal conditions, just see my fridge floor for details ..lol
I prefer not to disturb the soil once its started to bake, timing for this is vital, once you have your pets trained, then its just a case of keeping them happy,
....and they are a lot tougher than you give credit for too....good luck

No i like your insight because i actually like doing 4 x 4 beds like this.....
then let the entire thing sit for 3-4 weeks. I can ABSOLUTLEY fit that amount of soil into my area, my problem is in winter here i HAVE to use containers because of the canadian cold that permeates the area from dec-late march. I hate seeing my ladies in shock from cold and the only way ive found to remedy this is to keep em off the floor enitrely. Now i have gotten a couple heating pads from my last two 8 inch dome cloning trays i got fro hydrofarm......maybe i could introduce them somehow to combat the cold floors. Just thinking lol.

4 x 4 10 inches deep would fit in my flower tent PERFECTLY!

Back in the day in Ru, there was a guy who bakes his soil in old wooden vodka barrels, and later in mid/late winter with falling temps inserted a 1m T8 tube in each barrel
to keep the barrel up to temp about 15c/65f, it worked well, other use a fish tank heater, or even a ball of lawn clippings inserted deep, will offer good warmth over the coming weeks
with out heat, it will take ages to mature, with the constant swings of temp, maybe look to this once you have passed your winter solstice..?

greasemonkeymann said:

...but if you are mixing your soil, you aren't no till to begin with.
Also important to mention that many of us "no-tillers" aren't strict no till.
I know of many that re-amend/mix eventually.
In containers it's just needed.

Click to expand...

Agree completely. There's a lot of re-amending going on. Also a larger pot helps. 15-25 gal

Rrog said:

Agree completely. There's a lot of re-amending going on. Also a larger pot helps. 15-25 gal

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yea, I agree.
BUT I am toying with the idea of speeding up my entire process.. veging shorter times, training to 4 tops instead of 6 or eight, and flowering in 3 or maybe 5 gal smartpots...
according to my math, if I cut off 2 weeks off each cycle, that's another whole harvest...
And I may be able to hit the same numbers by cramming 12 to 15 plants in there instead of my usual 6 or 9

VTMi'kmaq said:

So your saying if you mix a 4 x 4 batch up and allow it to cooking.....breaking that up into (for example) 5 gallon buckets destroys the life they were working so hard to create during the cooking process?

Click to expand...

Yeah.

Doesn't destroy the life, however. Just disrupts it and it will heal up quickly.

In any event, the significant microbial build up occurs once the roots are introduced. I personally would not be too worried about any kind of fungal growth network while the soil is cooking

Rrog said:

Doesn't destroy the life, however. Just disrupts it and it will heal up quickly.

In any event, the significant microbial build up occurs once the roots are introduced. I personally would not be too worried about any kind of fungal growth network while the soil is cooking

Click to expand...

The bacteria is what I am concerned about. The only fungus I plan on introducing is in the mykos I will be dipping the roots in.

When I add my organic material, I notice a couple days later the top of my soil is covered in fluffy threads. Well not covered, but definitely some Web building.

Yep. Mycelium.

The rest of the microbes needed will introduce themselves to your container. The open air has them. If soil ever had a root, it's likely the microbes are already in there, just dormant

Rrog said:

Yep. Mycelium.

Click to expand...

Hmm... I wonder where they come from then... maybe the Ewc?

greasemonkeymann said:

important to note that a soilweb is different than just microbial populations.
In my brain, I don't see it as a calamity for the microbes when you mix it, yea maybe the soilweb, but if you are mixing your soil, you aren't no till to begin with.
Also important to mention that many of us "no-tillers" aren't strict no till.
I know of many that re-amend/mix eventually.
In containers it's just needed.
If you were in a raised bed? or maybe a gigantic hole in the ground?
Then it's not as crucial, but asking a cannabis plant to flower over and over in a container is asking a lot, if you don't re-amend.
My opinion, anyways.
Food for thought, I have done both methods, and have made an educated decision on re-amending/remixing.
It;s crucial.
not everytime, but at least once a yr

Click to expand...

Agreed. Whether I want to or not, I have to mix and re-amend pots eventually. Then I fill the pots and let them sit. Those microbes aren't going anywhere. Maybe they get mixed up and confused for a bit but, it doesn't take long for them to level out. When I bring bags of my compost to my friend for her tomato garden, I'm introducing my microbes to her soil where they'll propagate. Those microbes are hardy.

That's the thing- the microbes we want are either already in the soil or in the air. They aren't supposed to be hard to get. They are supposed to be everywhere.

Rrog said:

That's the thing- the microbes we want are either already in the soil or in the air. They aren't supposed to be hard to get. They are supposed to be everywhere.

Click to expand...

I suppose that makes sense. I will totally look into microbes in the air. Kind of like spores are everywhere and are just waiting for the right conditions to reproduce.

So you guys are saying that disturbing the soil only sets back the microbes 2-3 days?

Any links or citations?

I think the only thing temporarily disturbed would be the fungus.