Why AzCS might not be all about compassion......

Edit: full thread from AZCS
http://www.azcsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?4025-Does-joining-your-collective-revoke-my-right-to-cultivate

I went to AZCS website as a resource for MMJ shit. I go to ask a few simple questions in a thread started by someone else, and ill i did was simply consolodate the many questions in the thread and ask them all in one place, so we could have a straight concise answer. Here is what happens when you ask a question of the founder of AZCS.....
I thought it was a little odd that they want people to sign away there rights to grow to these people, that will make money off it, only to sell you 400 dollar oz;s......
I get that the price MIGHT go down eventually. I was only asking for clarification of there rules, and since it WAS A FORUM, a place for open discusion i figured it would be ok.... But apparently Bill doesnt like being bother with teh same problems at his work place.......
Pretty sure your getting paid to answer questions about YOUR CO-OP.....why all the attitude then?

My first post in the thread.
"Question: if i have the co-op grow for me, i STILL have to pay 400 an oz??

Why is that good at all? Just curious really not trying to be a dick.
But if you have the right to grow my plants, then why do i have to buy weed at the same price that i can on the street? YOU end up paying 300 for your CArd, then join a co-op, only to be paying teh same as you were before?
Im just confused....
When my 12 plants are done growing in your care, do i get those plants free? or a portion of them>----"


His response:

Not to single you out any but I AM going to use this post as kind of a "lesson" to others (hopefully)

#1- we have meds ranging from 280 - 400 so take your pick

#2- Why do you assume your cultivation rights get you "free" medication? Where did this idiotic idea get started?
Perhaps you assume that we are going to sell your excess like a dispensary would?
Perhaps you've assumed we will sell it to anybody and therefore make a bunch of money, which benefits us somehow?
On both accounts, common sense would tell you your wrong, see, we would need dispensaries for that.
What good are the cultivation rights you have when you dont use them? They are worthless, yet you seem to think there is some value there?

I actually spent about 20 minutes replying to this post only to delete it all and start over from here as I felt I was sugar coating things a little and that isn't my intent here.

let's just start here: "When my 12 plants are done growing in your care, do i get those plants free?"
You really think anyone is going to cultivate 12 plants from start to finish, with their equipment, their nutes, their power bill, their location, the whole 9 yards everything is on them and then they should just give you 12 plants worth of medication?

Maybe you can explain how that benefits AZCS or its collective members somehow?

Maybe you could explain how that benefits anyone BUT YOU?

Now, for this garbage: "But if you have the right to grow my plants, then why do i have to buy weed at the same price that i can on the street?"

well, for starters, the "street" is generally an illegal option, not even a gray area just illegal, clearly illegal at this point in the game actually. Unless your person on the street has a card and then you can both go to court and fight to stay out of jail with each other as co-defendants. Good luck.

second, if your "buying weed" "off the street" can you please leave my forums as you are not in compliance with ARS 28.1. And to the best of my knowledge (based on your lack of ETP verification) you are also NOT a registered patient.

Third:

Does the guy on the "street" have lawyers on deck with his herbs to protect you in case of a shake down or arrest, cause we do?

Does the guy on the "street" have three buildings worth of rent and bills to pay in order to offer you the same service, cause we do. In excess of 20K a month in overhead currently.

Does the "street" hire people and give people jobs that need them? We have a staff of over 20 currently and are hiring more soon for additional locations, add that to the overhead from above and there is your baseline.

So, since the guy down the "street" does NOT have all the same over head and employee costs that we do, how is it that the "street" has the same price as us? it should be MUCH LOWER!!

Granted once we are at full capacity at our cultivation facility we will be able to refine the process and thus reduce the overhead and in relation, the cost to the collective members, but until that happens (projected in late 2012) the cost is what it is.

Then, there is this: "Just curious really not trying to be a dick. "

lmao, try the search button, as has been suggested this is a dead horse. And in my experience people that say that or "no offense" have just made their intentions clear.

This topic has been covered over and over, and any of the co-op's have staff that will happily give you a free consultation and discuss how we operate as well as whether or not you qualify for the collective."

my response to this post was.....


"WOW.....just wow. Really man? I come to ask a question and get that bullshit asshole response back? Ya it does seem a little odd that id pay 300 for a license that seems to do you more good than me.
I was curious as to what YOU get out of it, a curiosity that ended up with me being called "idiotic" by the founder of this site for asking questions...of a topic i didnt start??? Im trying to navigate the new laws of this state, so forgive me for being cautious and weary of things i dont fully understand. I have REAL things in my life that i stand to lose if i go to jail, sorry Bill im not some smart ass, big headed Lawyer man that can smart talk my way out of legal situations and laugh in the face of cops. Im just a poor Combat vet with shrapnel in his spine and a pain pill problem. Im a patient, im not a fucking Weed Lawyer, im new to this. Show some bloody compassion, or at least stop acting like a typical dickhead lawyer for 5 minutes.

I get that their are cost incurred in growing, what i was asking is if MY SIGNING MY RIGHT AWAY TO YOU, WOULD GET ME ANYTHING.....
I was attempting to play devils advocate, how does your collective help anyone? You offer no discount at all?? Just seems a little shitty for the patient it seemed to me, so i asked like an adult out in the open. ON A FORUM NO LESS. ...... Only to be responded to like we are in 6th grade and this is a Facebook fight.

And at the end of that day, you're an asshole for speaking to me like that. I came here to find information and help, not attitude from the founder of the site. I get enough shit from the assholes in everyday life...so much for your so called Compassion club set up. You are far from compassionate as far as i can tell.

also im not in you green name club yet, because i dont have a scanner and i cant walk to kinkos to make copies. Takes awhile to walk in the heat when you cant use your right leg....."




I went to ask a few questions and got "singled out" for my efforts. Fuck you Bill. Fuck signing away your right to grow, only to have to pay 400 an oz...... FUCK THAT NOISE.
I work on respect, i speak to people with respect, and expect it back. Im glad they aren't in Tucson yet , and i hope they stay they hell out.
When i ask a question that i genuinely want to know (apparently so do many other on that site), and get verbally shit on, it upsets me. No matter how eloquent or veiled the insults were, they were insults none the less. Its another elitist "we have our cards and are better than dirty 'illegal' people" club. Wonder where they got there "meds" from before 203 passed. Probably from a dirty illegal drug dealer.....fucking hypocrites.

Sweet and straight to the point. Great INFO just goes to show you where we stand on the monopoly board in terms of support with this program. Shit like this will lead to one big unhappy group of Veterans and I will join you at the front of the line.

all bar owners love their clients until their clients bitch loudly about the price of the beer they sell while sitting in the bar.


$3 for a corona?????, shit i can buy a 12 pack for $10 at the convience store.

philosophist; these clubs have nothing to do with compassion. this is about money, yours and mine.

your question was legitamate, the response was very telling.

it tells me that the clubs will be the ones screaming the loudest about the 25 mile rule, how bad it is for patients; that is unless/until they somehow end up having it effect their wallets. then they will be singing a different tune.

i am quickly learning that nobody really gives a shit about MJ patients. this is all about $, and political manipulation.

trust no one but your own instincts.

word...i felt weird posting all that. I did it in anger, but in the end felt my anger was justified enough to want to share it with RIU. Riu IS FAR more compassionate that any local group, that probably because we aren't in the same food chain so to speak, but ill stick with growing my self and buying form the same people i always have, just because they aren't high and mighty Weed lawyers and pot co-op owners doesnt make them bad people. They have kids and dreams like the rest of us. Stop all this, ALL drug dealers are bad, a lot are VERY bad. But there are some, like many of us, that are just trying to get by in a shitty economy so that they can eat and pay bills.

bosco92 said:

all bar owners love their clients until their clients bitch loudly about the price of the beer they sell while sitting in the bar.


$3 for a corona?????, shit i can buy a 12 pack for $10 at the convience store.

philosophist; these clubs have nothing to do with compassion. this is about money, yours and mine.

your question was legitamate, the response was very telling.

it tells me that the clubs will be the ones screaming the loudest about the 25 mile rule, how bad it is for patients; that is unless/until they somehow end up having it effect their wallets. then they will be singing a different tune.

i am quickly learning that nobody really gives a shit about MJ patients. this is all about $, and political manipulation.

trust no one but your own instincts.

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Thats all its ever been about. The world revolves around the mighty dollar. " Compassion Club" is just a bullshit front for " STORE THAT MAKES MONEY"

That site is a joke I went there after reading about it on RIU on some thread where some guy spoke highly about them , I say fuck that place and after reading that I think my friends would feel the same way.

i read that shit heads response he gave to you and one valid question would be. why are their meds priced differently? why do they sell some for 280 and others for 400? the meds being sold for 400 must be very low yeilders especially since this guy says that the prices are directly linked to the overhead. so the only real reason why a strain would cost more is because it took the same resources to grow as others and they got a low yeild. thereby passing on the larger variable cost per gram onto the consumer. HOWEVER, if you have any experience growing and grading strains then you will know that yield and quality are not directly related and it is not harder to grow a name brand strain versus bag seed. all these clubs are doing is catering to the market place and pricing based on the increase in demand. the prices which they assign to their meds has little to do with their overhead. there is not really much you can do as a consumer other than voting with your dollars. IF YOU DONT THINK THE PRICE IS RIGHT THEN DONT BUY IT. as long as consumers continue to pay these prices, the clubs will charge them. on another note, i highly doubt that these clubs are growing their own shit or sourcing their meds from AZ. most of the meds that i have seen since these clubs opened have all looked like last years outdoor crop from cali. these scumbags are just middle men fucking their customers. fuck them and fuck the dispensaries. try to get your meds patient to patient or caregiver to patient. at least if you get from a caregiver you are directly funding the person that produced your meds. but beware if they are charging that much, most likely they did not grow it and in that case tell them to fuck off.

irieie said:

i read that shit heads response he gave to you and one valid question would be. why are their meds priced differently? why do they sell some for 280 and others for 400? the meds being sold for 400 must be very low yeilders especially since this guy says that the prices are directly linked to the overhead. so the only real reason why a strain would cost more is because it took the same resources to grow as others and they got a low yeild. thereby passing on the larger variable cost per gram onto the consumer. HOWEVER, if you have any experience growing and grading strains then you will know that yield and quality are not directly related and it is not harder to grow a name brand strain versus bag seed. all these clubs are doing is catering to the market place and pricing based on the increase in demand. the prices which they assign to their meds has little to do with their overhead. there is not really much you can do as a consumer other than voting with your dollars. IF YOU DONT THINK THE PRICE IS RIGHT THEN DONT BUY IT. as long as consumers continue to pay these prices, the clubs will charge them. on another note, i highly doubt that these clubs are growing their own shit or sourcing their meds from AZ. most of the meds that i have seen since these clubs opened have all looked like last years outdoor crop from cali. these scumbags are just middle men fucking their customers. fuck them and fuck the dispensaries. try to get your meds patient to patient or caregiver to patient. at least if you get from a caregiver you are directly funding the person that produced your meds. but beware if they are charging that much, most likely they did not grow it and in that case tell them to fuck off.

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Cali dispensaries do that and I'm pretty sure all of them do that. Just go look at the legal maps site you will see for yourself I just went clone shopping in Cali and they pretty much will sell "low's for 200 -280 a oz and anything hybrid will go from 350-400 a oz. For instance you can get a zone of Morning Star for like 280 bones and stuff like Alien OG or Fire OG will run about 400 dollars an ounce. They even sell their "shake" bags for like 15 bucks its all shake but if you're broke I guess its worth it.

BeaverHuntr said:

Cali dispensaries do that and I'm pretty sure all of them do that. Just go look at the legal maps site you will see for yourself I just went clone shopping in Cali and they pretty much will sell "low's for 200 -280 a oz and anything hybrid will go from 350-400 a oz. For instance you can get a zone of Morning Star for like 280 bones and stuff like Alien OG or Fire OG will run about 400 dollars an ounce. They even sell their "shake" bags for like 15 bucks its all shake but if you're broke I guess its worth it.

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yes i am fully aware of how it is done in cali. this is exactly my point. the asshole from azcs said that they had to price their strains that way because of the production costs and overhead. i am pointing out that the prices they assign has nothing to do with actual production costs but rather is determined by demand in the market. and there is one main factor which makes this fair to the consumer which is the fact that in cali any patient can grow their own meds NO MATTER WHAT. if we think it is bad now, wait until patients and caregivers can no longer produce their own. this will create a new larger "illegal" market which is what azmmj program was supposed to get rid of. the 25 mile rule is textbook socialism, government controls the means of production.

irieie said:

yes i am fully aware of how it is done in cali. this is exactly my point. the asshole from azcs said that they had to price their strains that way because of the production costs and overhead. i am pointing out that the prices they assign has nothing to do with actual production costs but rather is determined by demand in the market. and there is one main factor which makes this fair to the consumer which is the fact that in cali any patient can grow their own meds NO MATTER WHAT. if we think it is bad now, wait until patients and caregivers can no longer produce their own. this will create a new larger "illegal" market which is what azmmj program was supposed to get rid of. the 25 mile rule is textbook socialism, government controls the means of production.

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Yeah that 25 mil rule is mass stupid we have to get rid of it someway somehow.

Ya for real, i hate that they are going to let scoundrels set up businesses that will do more harm than good. And i know its last years cali harvest. They are getting the SAME weed im getting down here, Blue dream Grand daddy purps etc, for 280, and its sold to me as last years cali crop. No lies. no bullshit.

But ill be dealing patient to patient hopefully. Find a few other grower patients and just sell among each other etc...but finding non greedy people is the trick....

Philosophist said:

Ya for real, i hate that they are going to let scoundrels set up businesses that will do more harm than good. And i know its last years cali harvest. They are getting the SAME weed im getting down here, Blue dream Grand daddy purps etc, for 280, and its sold to me as last years cali crop. No lies. no bullshit.

But ill be dealing patient to patient hopefully. Find a few other grower patients and just sell among each other etc...but finding non greedy people is the trick....

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i like where you are going. one thing we must realize though is that good weed does not grow itself and those which are producing it should still be compensated accordingly. but 400 an oz means you are a middle man or a disgusting pig that grows shit weed. because if you can grow good weed you dont need to charge so much because you already have the next crop lined up (you are constantly increasing your supply).

thanks for the info! philosophist i think by reading the direct reply we can all form our own conclusions, and im feeling that your title seems to be right.

AZCannaFarmer.com is filled with folks that left AZCS after getting fed up with Bill. Traffic at CannaFarmer is a bit slow most days, but at least there's no 'tude going around on there.

Fuck azcs stay away from that place....bunch of Nazi's

read this forum to see what AZCS is like

http://www.azcsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?4025-Does-joining-your-collective-revoke-my-right-to-cultivate

Philosophist said:

read this forum to see what AZCS is like

http://www.azcsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?4025-Does-joining-your-collective-revoke-my-right-to-cultivate

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Any way you can copy the text and paste it in here?? It wont let you read the thread unless your a member, and I dont feel like signing up for a forum ill never use (;

his a always a great start to a conversation "dont mean to be a dick" cause pretty much, you do mean to be a dick, so I did as well.

I have better shit to do than teach people how to use a search function box. I just tried it and found the relative information in several threads, sorry you failed to read them. There is NO other reason I could find that prevented you from finding what you were looking for. maybe you have failed to read a single one of the hundred posts or newspaper articles where I have said over and over, we ALL HAVE OTHER SHIT TO DO aka LIFE!! Almost everyone that works with or for AZCS has another job that actually pays the bills. Our site is very well "put together" but something that does separate us from the other sites is we don't sugar coat shit and we don't BS people.
We are patients and people just like alllllll of you are, so put yourself in our shoes for a year next time before you open your mouth and question our business policies.
Why don't you go over $50K in the HOLE! to start up your own AZCS, the first and ONLY place on-line for AZ patients that allows them to act in compliance with ARS 28.1.
Then you can run it however you want

Which is why...
"I come to ask a question and get that bullshit asshole response back?" Really, you came to ask a question? What question was that? Reading what you wrote I saw nothing more than a rant with a question mark used. One designed to provoke a response. "devil's advocate" is what you called it however, call it what ya want, you accomplished your goal. You wanted myside, my explanation so you got it, from me, my way, sorry we aren't friends and you don't know me well enough to understand my response. Had I singled you out in specific I would have used YOUR NAME.

idiotic idea is what I said because it is one, and YES common sense DOES apply here, all over here. It's not our job (AZCS) to teach you EVERYTHING about the MMJ industry, we provide the information, its your job to read and understand it, if you don't, ask a question, a real one. That's is what my staff does, help patients, something your not so you have NO room to talk about their reaction to you.
I feel I speak for my broke ass staff when I say THANKS JET!!! thanks for calling it what it is brother!!

I live in a house that I RENT, not own and barely made rent the last two months due to the operations of AZCS and its overhead. SO to have you, a non patient question my intentions for being in this business and how much me and my staff make from it seemed totally uncalled for and you got the response you asked for, maybe I should have directed it towards you specifically.

"Azcs is your weed hook up" as has been pointed out numerous times now, AZCS is NOT a "weed hook up" and we specifically assist only the patients that qualify for our programs, not everyone with a card. We are anything BUT a "weed hook up" with less than 20% of our forum membership using our collective and co-op. We provide a FREE site for AZ's patients, the ONLY one like it. Sorry you don't appreciate the value in what we do, but over 800 patients do see the value and its those members we look to protect and serve.

"The co-op is an amazing thing. I never said it wasnt. " What you did say is that we are over priced and UN-compassionate. Pretty hard to be amazing and sooooo over priced at the same time wouldn't you agree. I went at your post the same way I attack a judge in court or a PA for that matter, line by line, to expose the contradictions and BS being spewed by them. Logic and reason always prevail in these situations so that is what I rely on and equip myself with.

And now, on to some other bullshit I just read over.

let me share a few of the reasons your post was so offensive to me, and a few others.

AZCS, was the first group to assist with resources for the petition to have PTSD added to the qualifying conditions list. We were also the first group to contact and offer a discount to the Veterans for Medical Marijuana organization here in AZ for their certs. We recently sponsored a give-away at a motorcycle rally for Veterans, we were the ONLY group in AZ to do anything for them to help them raise money and awareness.

You also played the "combat vet" card with the wrong person unless that "card" was earned in Vietnam or prior, when there was a draft, and people had NO CHOICE but to go to WAR. Everything after was done by choice of the enlisting soldier, not by Presidential order. And none of them were a WAR, they were all ILLEGAL invasions. And on a side note which you must have missed, I started AZCS to prevent people from dying needlessly without proper medication. People like my Father, a 12 year Vietnam combat Vet who lost his left knee, shoulder and most of his mobility on that side from a bouncing betty. People who for all their dedication and SERVICE were in turn sprayed with AGENT ORANGE by our government and paid a quarter of what they were promised in exchange for their lives.

I've been charged with 3 felonies and spent a year in prison and over two years in county assisting real patients with real problems simply because they needed my help and had no other means. I vowed after my father died form cancer that I wouldn't let it happen to anyone else, that is why I do what I do.

AZCS has sponsored numerous patients in financial strain and we continue to do so through the help of every member of the collective. Maybe their hearts are just bigger than everyone else's and they sleep better at night, like I do, knowing they are helping someone else sleep for the first time in years without pain. Helping a husband and wife be intimate for the first time in years because her pain was so great he couldn't even touch her. Or perhaps helping someone like RJ, AZCS's current sponsor patient. RJ is 9 years old and needs allllllll the excess meds we can get him to make PHX Tears, so every extra dime we get goes to him and his caregiver's needs right now. Take things like that into consideration next time you wanna play devil's advocate with me about what I do and how I do it.

I make NO apologies for my behavior OR my responses as I speak from the heart and hold no punches with anyone. If you don't like reality you might wanna join another site, this ones full of it around every corner. If you came here expecting sugar coated BS then you obviously didn't do your homework on us first, that's not how we roll around here.

And last but not least by any means.

You, nor anyone else for that matter, will NOT insult my staff on MY site. The next words you type had better be an apology to them (not me) or they will be your last here. I personally could care less about your opinions but I will NOT stand by idle while someone takes a shot at one of the family, not on my watch.

They have busted their asses to make this site what it is on the resources we had available for them.

Matt has worked countless hrs for free or cheap, literally next to nothing, as has Bryan. yet people like you come on here and talk shit to them about how much money we charge when you blatantly have no clue how any of this works or how much we make doing it.
You apparently missed the thread about the cops coming into the EM facility. Even the Lt. asked how we managed to stay in business after hearing how we operate. So YES, when a cop can figure out where the money goes and that the administration isn't rollin in dough like people assume we are from accepting grow rights for so many folks after less than 45 minutes of conversation it baffles me how a forum member can be so clueless to the same general info plastered all over this site and others.
AZCS administration is comprised of blue collar working class patients. Myself, my wife, Damon, Dana, Bryan and Matt created AZCS and the patients have molded it into what it is. We bust our ass daily for little or no benefit so if myself or anyone else is perceived as "defensive" or "aggressive" in our stance on things like this I say again, I make no apologies and neither should any staff member for what it costs to be a collective member.

The reason we have so many enemies in this industry is our honesty.

"I'll be branded a maniac for speaking the truth, and murdered, when I hit the streets with the proof."

Comments and attitudes like yours spawn the negativity in this industry whether you see it or not, every thread post, every comment like yours and the others accusing us of "costing to much" do nothing but deter legit patients from joining the collective or one like it when they catch on. A Collective business model in ANY legal mmj state makes the LEAST amount of money as they ONLY help their specific patients. You've got us twisted with something we're not. A "DISPENSARY" makes a shit ton of cash, a collective is formed by patients to, wait for it,





wait for it,








wait for it......













HELP PATIENTS!"

That is his last reply to me..... il admit his bullshit about the war shit pissed me off, so i responded by calling his Vietnam vet father a baby killing woman rapist. I ended it by calling him rape spawn. So ill admit i talked some shit after he wrote all that.
Im far from perfect though....... just handsome.

This is from teh leader of a COMPASSION CLUB FFS...i mean who speaks to peopl eliek athat after selling 400 oz??? of last years cali crop lol. i get the same shit for 280 a oz. But even that has dried up in Tucson, because fuck wads like him are jacking up prices.