We have a debate!!! Need everyone's imput!!!

Which argument is right?

  • The first argument is completely correct.

    Votes: 14 42.4%

  • The second argument is completely correct.

    Votes: 11 33.3%

  • Both are correct.

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Neither are correct.

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
I would like to hear from the other people on the site.

Topic: lumens

Argument one: Lumens can be added to be divided by the square feet of a room to get the total lumens per square foot. This is also known as the "inverse square law" in which intensity=light output divided by the square feet. This is especially essential to all growers. For the growers who grow with CFLs you will always have more than one bulb (unlike MH/HPS growers) so you will always have to add all of your bulbs lumens together in order to solve for the equation.

Argument 2: You don't increase your lumen output by adding more bulbs together. The highest rated lumen bulb is the absolute max that you will get. YOU CANNOT ADD LUMENS TOGETHER. Having 5-1700 lumens bulbs in different areas of your plant is great but having them side by side does not affect lumen value. So whether you have 5 or 50-1700 lumen bulbs, the most lumens your plant will see is 1700. Want more lumens? Buy one lamp that produces ALOT, plain and simple.
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
On another note, I am not doing this to start crap. I am doing this because I am all about education, and if I am wrong I would rather know about it then go through life as blind as a bat.....
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
Joe2iisbeing said:
if you have more watts its more lumens regardless. Do you have any justifications for argument 2?
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Ask, "homegrownboy" he is the one I am debating with......


This started in another thread, but I wanted to get an opinion from all people in a poll. The thread was "Is 2600 Lumens Enough Light to Grow the Magical Herb?"

Want me to bump it or something?
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
Joe2iisbeing said:
nah hes nuts
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no, he is absolutely serious. He believes he has it down to a science. But I have never heard of what he is talking about. I don't even know where he got it, but I am not the epitome of intelligence. There is a chance I could be wrong, or both of us right. I wont know until some people start voting....
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
bump................seriously, I really want to know. I have researched, but idk maybe I have missed something. Where are all you smart growers out there?
 
LoudBlunts

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
Joe2iisbeing said:
if you have more watts its more lumens regardless. Do you have any justifications for argument 2?
Click to expand...
Al B. Fuct said:
Lumens don't 'add.'

Here's 2 CFLs with a lux meter sensor within 2" of each.



Here's the meter reading one of the two CFLs as pictured above:



huh, they're almost exactly the same....

So, am I fucking retarded, is my lux meter fucking retarded, are my CFLs fucking retarded or is the science fucking retarded?

Note the glaring omission of the possibility that YOU could be fucking retarded...

So, as Dr Julius Sumner Miller would say- WHY is it so?

Luminous intensity (in lumens) is a measure of brightness. Putting a lamp next to another makes it no brighter. The lux meter is reading the intensity of the brightest light source- it is not counting the number of photons.

Luminous intensity in parallel is a lot like voltage in parallel. You get the same voltage/luminous intensity but you can source more current/light more area at the same voltage/same luminous intensity. However, it's not possible to add luminous intensity in series as one can add voltages of batteries in series. If you want more luminous 'voltage' you have to get a higher 'luminous voltage' single source- aka a more intense light... like HID.

The lumen unit measures the energy of or 'push' behind the photons, not the quantity of them.

1x or 1,000,000x 1750 lumen CFLs over a certain area will yield 1750 lumens. You can cover more area at 1750lm with your million 1750lm CFLs, but none of the lights gets any brighter than 1750lm.
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??????????????
 
Joe2iisbeing

Joe2iisbeing

Well-Known Member
either way lumen is just a word humans use to measure how we perceive light. It really doesnt have anything to do with plant growth.
 
C

Coors

Well-Known Member
My understanding is, and it may not be true, but when using CFL's more is better, however the light penetration does not change. Meaning that CFL's are only affective if they are inches from the plant. Thus you need more CFL's to cover the surface area of the plant. But it does not do any good to put them right next to each other.
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
Joe2iisbeing said:
either way lumens is just a word humans use to measure how we perceive light. It really doesnt have anything to do with plant growth.
Click to expand...
Lumens measure light intensity, which has everyting to do with growth. It's one of the components that helps determine the light efficiency/intensity in your grow room.

HID lamps are bright-very very bright. Growers who properly manage this intense brightness harvest more weed per watt. Intensity is the magnitude of light energy per unit of area(inverse square law). It is greatest near the bulb and diminishes rapidly as it moves away form the source. Plants that are 2 feet from a lamp receive 1/4 the amount of light recieved by plants one foot away!!!

It's all related when you start researching.
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
LoudBlunts said:
??????????????
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eh, I think that second quote is not right. Listen to this...

Most commercial light meters measure light in foot-candles or lux. Both scales measure light to which the human eye reacts to "see." They DO NOT measure photosynthetic response to light in PAR watts....
 
ScarletteSky

ScarletteSky

Well-Known Member
Joe2iisbeing said:
it has to do with a lot more than just lumens. Most of that isnt even usable light.
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Oh I know, you're right. I just dont like it when people assume lumens aren't important. If they weren't then one would not be able to solve the inverse square law.


Yeah, plant only use the blue and red spectrums. They use between 400-700 nanometers, it's called the photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR) zone.
 
Joe2iisbeing

Joe2iisbeing

Well-Known Member
This i know. Thats why my blue LEDs are trucking along, i have no idea how many lumens and i know its not very high at all. But that doesnt matter since im using around 90% more of the light output than if i were using cfls.
 
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