Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
And fuck you, right wing scum.
Macron over Le Pen by 17%.
Macron over Le Pen by 17%.
Vive La France!
- Thread starter Unclebaldrick
- Start date
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
Putin still has Boris on his payroll.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Sativied
Well-Known Member
The first round should have been an end to media speculating Le Pen is a threat to Macron and far-right might take over France. They’d love the clicks and activity on their sites if France too would elect a Trump. In the first round he gained 4% compared to 5 years ago, Le Pen 2%. That’s despite the low turnout, which is mostly because people are already tired of Macron.
A key issue in recent elections in France is retirement age. While others in EU have to work till 67 to get government pension, in France it’s 62 (lower for some trades/industries). Macron campaigned on raising it to 65, Le Pen wanted to keep it at 62. Even though Macron backtracked on that point already before the second round, it definitely helped Le Pen get votes from many people who dgaf about left or right, just purchasing power. For Le Pen to overcome the difference in votes with Macron in the second round, she would have had to get a very unusual amount of support from so many left and/or some right voters that it was always already certain Macron would win. Any suggestion from him and his team the race was not over yet was to prevent the for France and Macron embarassing low turn out and prepare for the upcoming elections for parliament.
And now Le Pen fantasizes about that 40+% translating to seats in the parliament too. It’s laughable, will be at most half of that and that‘s already a stretch. Add the other far-right (Reconquête ) and you end up with 25% of ~65% turnout of the electorate voting far-right. 1 out of 6 is a nazi, what else is new…
A key issue in recent elections in France is retirement age. While others in EU have to work till 67 to get government pension, in France it’s 62 (lower for some trades/industries). Macron campaigned on raising it to 65, Le Pen wanted to keep it at 62. Even though Macron backtracked on that point already before the second round, it definitely helped Le Pen get votes from many people who dgaf about left or right, just purchasing power. For Le Pen to overcome the difference in votes with Macron in the second round, she would have had to get a very unusual amount of support from so many left and/or some right voters that it was always already certain Macron would win. Any suggestion from him and his team the race was not over yet was to prevent the for France and Macron embarassing low turn out and prepare for the upcoming elections for parliament.
And now Le Pen fantasizes about that 40+% translating to seats in the parliament too. It’s laughable, will be at most half of that and that‘s already a stretch. Add the other far-right (Reconquête ) and you end up with 25% of ~65% turnout of the electorate voting far-right. 1 out of 6 is a nazi, what else is new…
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Yeah, a lot of people would have said that a day after the 2016 election if Hillary had won.
But she didn't.
This isn't the time to take shit for granted.
Unclebaldrick
Well-Known Member
Yeah I remember how in 2016 the trailer parks surprised everyone by voting overwhelmingly for Trump. If I had suggested that a month before Trump's election I would have been laughed out of the campaign office.
Oh. I did, and I was. I was one of the very few of those to even go into the trailer parks as the campaign figured them as 'a lock'. I knew how they were going to vote. Maybe not how heavily, but I knew.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
That’s exactly what the media was trying to make of it, a situation similar to Trump vs Hillary and the US, clickbait, while it’s not comparable at all. Not a 2-party system in France, no southern states with batshit christians for example. If Hillary would have won it would have likely still been with a small margin as typical. Very different situation. Turning socialist left into far right is apparantly harder than turning republicans and trailer park trash into fascist. It’s not even comparing apples to oranges, it’s comparing bananas to a drum kit.
Macron wins with 17% yet you still want to suggest there was ever a close race? Le Pen had practically a zero chance of winning. That’s not taking things for granted, it’s rejecting sensational media absurdity. The left and the (not far-)right voters whose candidate didn’t make it to second round had a choice between the far-right and the large centre to which they are both closer. The Trump-Hillary analogy just doesn’t work, a better one: Le Pen had roughly the same chance tens of millions of Obama voters and all the Bernie and AOC supporters would vote for Ivanka and against Biden.
I was wrong though, some just won’t give up trying to convince readers the nazis are on the rise in France
Macron's win is a relief to the West, but a historic far-right vote signals a looming threat | CNN
Emmanuel Macron will serve a second term as the president of France -- the first person to do so since 2002.
Comes with cliffhanger:
”So while many of Europe's leaders were quick to congratulate Macron, they will be acutely aware that this anti-EU, anti-West sentiment is still very much alive in France -- arguably the most powerful member state of the EU.
For the traditional West, Macron's second term is a moment of great relief, but also a moment of warning. If the far-right continues to make gains, there could be a very different outcome five years from now.”
French Elections 2027
”In a world, where people do not pronounce consonants and drink wine in liters, anti-West sentiment is still very much alive and the nazis are making gains.”
”Anti-West sentiment is still very much alive in France” is both the funniest and the dumbest thing I read all week.
HGCC
Well-Known Member
I am going to claim "rec" as my political group, I assume they are the recreational weed party. 3 or 4% sounds about right for that being a single issue party, I figure that's about the percentage you would see show up at the normal political events before it got legalized many places.
*helps to read the * if you have questions. I was curious where all those little groups in 2017 ended up, they joined together and are the purple group.
*helps to read the * if you have questions. I was curious where all those little groups in 2017 ended up, they joined together and are the purple group.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Well you might want to reconsider. They're a single issue party yes, but it's not recreational weed, it's fighting (while promoting the lie of) the 'great replacement'. It's frequently pointed out how divided the US is, which is true in some ways but arguably it's worse in many European countries. In France (and NL alike) the nazis, the centrists, the lefties and the right are literally divided into multiple parties. Le Pen (RN) referred to leader of Reconquête (Zemmour) as someone who is 'surrounded by nazis'. Go ahead, blame me though, I should have pointed out one of the smaller ones on the left is Zemmour's party, which is far-right too.
The far-left party FI on the right, now part of the NUPES group, has introduced bills to legalize weed several times, the founder (Mélenchon) was 3rd in first round in the presidential elections just behind Le Pen.
First round end results now show 25.7% Macron's group (center-left) and 25.7% for NUPES (socialists, greens, communists aka far-left).
HGCC
Well-Known Member
Ha, yeah it was 50/50 if I was going to be backing a weed party...or something terrible.
As an American, it's my patriotic duty to absolutely refuse to accept new information, so I am sticking with the REC. You just hate our freedom. Something something about immigrants.
I do wonder if some of the countries with multiple parties representing a wide array of beliefs will start to consolidate towards two if they need to oppose the hard right folks. I like having lots of parties and options, but I can put that aside and just happily vote against fucking nazis all day. We would have said America was mostly centrists, but those centers get pulled and influenced by their poles so half the center has gone along with some rather shitty shit, and of course they view the other half of the center as going along with shitty shit.
As an American, it's my patriotic duty to absolutely refuse to accept new information, so I am sticking with the REC. You just hate our freedom. Something something about immigrants.
I do wonder if some of the countries with multiple parties representing a wide array of beliefs will start to consolidate towards two if they need to oppose the hard right folks. I like having lots of parties and options, but I can put that aside and just happily vote against fucking nazis all day. We would have said America was mostly centrists, but those centers get pulled and influenced by their poles so half the center has gone along with some rather shitty shit, and of course they view the other half of the center as going along with shitty shit.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Some will, some do, some might not some day. In France, Belgium, Germany, and NL among others, far-right parties are basically excluded explicitly and beforehand (pre formation and/or elections) by almost all parties. People want to know who they will work with before voting. Almost no party other than other far-right parties wants to form a coalition with far-right if anything because they'd be punished hard for it the next election. A vote for far-right, for a party that can't get a majority on its own AND won't be part of a ruling coalition, is a waste of vote. It effectively causes the center to compromise with the entire left. Same will happen in France. A vote for far-right, is for now anyway, effectively a vote for left including the far end.
Any gains in France for far-right is concerning, for the French especially, but even the center right won't join far-right meaning they can't even get a third of parliament. The center left and far left are competing with each other and none of them will even entertain the idea of self-destructing by cooperating with the far opposite side of the spectrum.
We have 4 nazi parties in NL now (of total 21...). Two are spin offs of another, and one has only 1 member in parliament of 150. They split up because they disagree on the level of racism antisemitism, alternative facts / bullshit, and support for Russia and covid measures. They'd work together if there was a scenario where it would apply but even then they barely got 20% total, similar to France. The already divided rest having to work together prevents major swings to left or right, but at the same time it does stand in the way of progress. Belgium (that's between France and NL for geographically challenged folks) is a prime example. They didn't have a national government for almost 2 years... twice.
It usually takes just a single issue to figure out one what side of the spectrum an American is. If anti-abortion then republican. Pro affordable decent healthcare system = dem. License to inbreed with 13 y/o niece = rep. Give a shit about the climate = dem. The worst thing is, if you want to vote for one of these thing, you also need to vote for the rest that belongs with that side. At least that's how it seems, or how people are forced to vote. Want to inbreed with your 13yo niece, fine, then you also have to be anti-abortion (which is weird cause she might get pregnant), anti-immigration, alternative fact believer, and w/e that side says is 'right'. That's not a healthy situation, it creates a binary option between two sets of points of view which mathematically is very likely to lead to roughly 50-50 outcome. The people nor the politicians will ever really have a good idea of what people want.
HGCC
Well-Known Member
The far right nazi type folks over there would shock Americans. It's weird. It haven't been over since 2006 or 7, but yeah, encountered some nazi skins a few blocks from the Anne frank house, was a much more volatile guy then, so you know, it goes how it goes. I am firmly in the camp that you should stomp them out when you see them. It was really surprising though to see it out in the open and proud as a group though.
These people were at Kyle Rittenhouse murders too..so this is one of the things we're up against here in the states.
Patriot Front.
The new KKK with white masks instead of hoods.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
They all have this what I refer to as a dateline-look because they all look like the guys in “to catch a predator” from Dateline NBC. I use that term frequently and so far my wife was the only one who gets what I mean when I say “he’s got that dateline look”. Pre-internet our approach was mostly to just ignore them, they‘re usually outcasts, troubled kids, the schoolshooter type but hard to get a gun without a brain here. The idea was that giving them attention would only increase their numbers. Obviously not a good strategy on the long run, especially with social media and internet now, gotta kill it before it grows.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
It’s been decades since I’ve seen an actual stompable nazi skinhead in NL. Good times though. Back then we had Jan Maat, basically first nazi in politics since the actual nazis lost the war. His slogans, in the 80s, were “full = full” and “own people/population first”. Most people agree now he wasn’t entirely wrong (seriously, we’re full, new immigrants have to sleep on chairs, million houses shortage). He was never any succesful because of the cordon sanitaire by other parties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordon_sanitaire_(politics)#The_Netherlands (this is about what I said in previous post, excluding parties beforehand from coalitions).
In the 90s we had the rave scene, or as we called it the “gabber” scene, which means “buddy”, a proper subculture. Anti-establishment. Everyone on xtc or speed. Bomber jackets and track suits and Nike Air Max was like a uniform. Most were skinheads (some, including the girls, just the sides). Everyone was everyone’s buddy. Best period since the 70s. No nazis, just love, every equal. Except me, cause I provided the pills lol. Anyway, harmless skinny skinheads. That subculture died before the end of the millennium, people moved on, got jobs and kids.
Around 2005 we had the so-called Lonsdale youth, which were sort of nazi skinhead knockoffs. They took over rave parties, girls in blouses and mini skirts, guys in bombers, sweaters and shirts from the british brand Lonsdale, shoes from Doc Martens. Some schools banned the clothing because of its association with nazis and far-right. The brand never recovered here. At some point major DJs and producers already active in the 90s started releasing tracks, flyers and covers with various anti racism and anti nazi texts/slogans and it died out again. These guys would actually walk around in groups being all nazis so it would make sense to me if it was Lonsdale youth what you saw (stompable nazis but not so scary looking). That or polish neonazi tourists, they still got the hooligan type. Nowadays in NL far right doesn’t look like neonazis at all.
Good read on how to defeat nazis with techno:
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I’m having a @Jimdamick moment - this thread needs a song now…
Goosebumps every single time. Arms, legs… I swear if you put this on in any city in NL some 40-50 year olds will uncontrollably start dancing.
Goosebumps every single time. Arms, legs… I swear if you put this on in any city in NL some 40-50 year olds will uncontrollably start dancing.
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