Veganic Grow 2020

Happy Holidays RIU

I am looking for feedback and guidance on my needs in a soil mix.

I have spent the last week reading every post I can find on RIU and other sites about veganic growing and supersoils (subcool/tga/modified versions, KK’s VSS, Matt Rize’s huge thread, clackamus coots, probiotics, no till, living gardens, and various people’s attempts at modifying those into vegan super soils.) Most of the post’s on this however are dating back to @ 2011/12. There have been a few updates since then, but most people seem to gravitate to the no till method it seems. The one Vegan Super Soil mix that seemed most interesting to me was @ganjamystic 's one here. I am hoping to get some more recent feedback from other RIU users that have tried the suggestions and have something working for them, or can help me work out the best options for my situation as we step into 2020.

Before the war starts, this decision to switch to a “veganic” grow has everything to do with the fact that I am growing for both myself and my son, who suffers from severe Crohn’s disease. He has had to have major surgery recently and is currently on immunosuppressive drugs that leave him with a weakened immune system. All of this is making me rethink the “organic” food supply chain, as well as specifically my style of growing, since I grow in our home.

I have been always used a mix of FFOF/HF/Malibu Bu/Perlite for base soil (last year or so I added Great White added during transplants), + mix in the full Roots Organics liquid regimen when I water, (+ / lots of their dry Cal/Mag added to the water once I switched to growing under HLG QB’s). I thought about switching to their dry ammendments, but then realized those contain blood/bone/feather/fish meals.

The reality of possible contamination from guanos or the pathogens from blood/bone has me seeking a vegan option. It also is making me rethink what kind of sustainability I have in my setup, and what kind of example I want to set for my son. I also want him to be able to help take care of the plants at some point, so he can learn to provide his own medicine. In the short term I would rather have him just have to water, instead of trying to keep track of different nute mixes for veg, flower etc.

I definitely don’t wanna become a slave to buying bottles of Vegamatrix, and BioCanna seems to not be available in CA anymore. So I am hoping to find a veganic premixed supersoil that I can just water, and spike w some teas as needed.

The other factors in the situation, we live in a small apartment in Los Angeles. I have a some storage space in my car port to keep some sealed bags of soil, but it is dirty and don’t want to keep mixed soil out there. Besides that I don’t have space to spread a tarp and let the dirt cook in the sun for a month or more. I definitely don’t have the space or time to do a proper no till or probiotic setup (also I use smaller pots and I think these setups need @ 5 gal pots min?). I will recycle the used soil into the planter boxes outside that need amendment badly.

If I mix my own, it has to be something that is mostly ready to go. I could mix up say a 20 gallon plastic tote and put a lid on it and keep it inside for a month but would prefer not to have to mix a ton of dry ingredients and ‘cook’ it in my living room on an ongoing basis.

Ideally I could just buy something like BuildASoil’s Living Organic Soil, but its $38 inc shipping for a cu ft. Anybody know of anything like this available in SoCal for a better price (and not burning a shit load of fuel shipping dirt from 1000 miles away)?

I do have a local wholesale nursery supply nearby that carries Down To Earth Organics stuff and their prices are dirt cheap. I was thinking I could use the Pro Organic Mix, and amend it with the Vegan Mix. Add in some EWC and perlite, and I could spike with something like Veganic Special Sauce or Boogie Brew as needed. Since I am growing under QB LED’s, should I plan to add additional Mg (and/or CalMag) to the soil itself?

Only other note is that I am setting up a perpetual 5x4 closet at the moment so will have to go through my soil mixing process once a month or so, but only will need to mix 1/3 to 1/2 the amount of soil for the whole space at any given time, if that makes sense. Also, I will only do a short 2 week veg of clones in small containers, and then will be transplanting into 2 gal pots for flower.

Any other suggestions or ideas welcome!

Bless

Welcome aboard @ilovereggae and best wishes to you and your son for a great 2020.

inDC4now said:

Welcome aboard @ilovereggae and best wishes to you and your son for a great 2020.

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thanks @inDC4now - hope that your 2020 is awesome too!

You will save money buying amendments like the down to earth or the cheapest way is to grow your own if you have the land. The plastic tub will work for cooking soil but i would look into coots and no till. You basically just feed the worms and keep an eye on the PH. The way i feed mine it will start to get acidic and then i will top dress with oyster flour that will raise the PH and add calcium to the soil. Gypsum will add calcium to the soil and is pretty close to being PH neutral to it won't raise the PH. Cal/mag not really necessary. I am about to make a 80 gallon no till bed for my grow room and hope to get at least ten years out of the soil. But you also have to switch out perlite for something that will stand up better but is heavier like lava rock. Then if you have room outside you can grow amendments like aloe vera , comfrey, alfalfa and just about anything organic can be composted. But you might want to start doing some mixes first learn your amendments and what they do. This place is in washington but sells the same kinda stuff as build a soil not sure if it is any closer to you or not..... Some good info in the podcasts they have a few with clackmas coot. https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

JavaCo said:

You will save money buying amendments like the down to earth or the cheapest way is to grow your own if you have the land. The plastic tub will work for cooking soil but i would look into coots and no till. You basically just feed the worms and keep an eye on the PH. The way i feed mine it will start to get acidic and then i will top dress with oyster flour that will raise the PH and add calcium to the soil. Gypsum will add calcium to the soil and is pretty close to being PH neutral to it won't raise the PH. Cal/mag not really necessary. I am about to make a 80 gallon no till bed for my grow room and hope to get at least ten years out of the soil. But you also have to switch out perlite for something that will stand up better but is heavier like lava rock. Then if you have room outside you can grow amendments like aloe vera , comfrey, alfalfa and just about anything organic can be composted. But you might want to start doing some mixes first learn your amendments and what they do. This place is in washington but sells the same kinda stuff as build a soil not sure if it is any closer to you or not..... Some good info in the podcasts they have a few with clackmas coot. https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast

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Thanks @JavaCo

Right now my outdoor space is super limited. Besides a tub or two for holding soil mix I might be able to get maybe a few aloe plants but not much else. I think the living soil / coot's methods seem to be the best long term solution, but I feel like I need some more space to pull that off. For now I think I am just going to keep it simple that way I can get a better idea of what adding different ingredients has to my grow, and can dial it in over time.

At the moment I am thinking this will be my basic mix:

- DTE Pro Organic Mix (peat/ewc/perlite/myco)
- DTE Vegan Mix fertilizer
- BuildASoil Pinto bean compost (free shipping on up to 40 lb bags).
- Perlite (Have @ 2cu ft of Aurora left that I need to use up before I try pumice or anything else)

How does that sound?

ilovereggae said:

Thanks @JavaCo

Right now my outdoor space is super limited. Besides a tub or two for holding soil mix I might be able to get maybe a few aloe plants but not much else. I think the living soil / coot's methods seem to be the best long term solution, but I feel like I need some more space to pull that off. For now I think I am just going to keep it simple that way I can get a better idea of what adding different ingredients has to my grow, and can dial it in over time.

At the moment I am thinking this will be my basic mix:

- DTE Pro Organic Mix (peat/ewc/perlite/myco)
- DTE Vegan Mix fertilizer
- BuildASoil Pinto bean compost (free shipping on up to 40 lb bags).
- Perlite (Have @ 2cu ft of Aurora left that I need to use up before I try pumice or anything else)

How does that sound?

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Couple things you might want to add a source of minerals like basalt azomite or sea90 and a PH buffer like oyster shell. The PH buffer will also add a source of calcium. I use stuff from the SF bay area it is mined and 100's of millions of years old so it powders up better and is more soluble than the east coast oyster shell thats only a few million years old. Other than that A PH raising lime can be used you find that in a lot of super soil recipes. If you don't use one the soil will get acidic fairly quickly then things start getting locked out and problems will follow.

JavaCo said:

Couple things you might want to add a source of minerals like basalt azomite or sea90 and a PH buffer like oyster shell. The PH buffer will also add a source of calcium. I use stuff from the SF bay area it is mined and 100's of millions of years old so it powders up better and is more soluble than the east coast oyster shell thats only a few million years old. Other than that A PH raising lime can be used you find that in a lot of super soil recipes. If you don't use one the soil will get acidic fairly quickly then things start getting locked out and problems will follow.

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Ok great thank you. I thought the DTE Vegan Mix had azomite but I was wrong. I will look into that and the oyster shell. The Pro Organic mix does already have dolomitic limestone to keep ph in check do u think I will need to add more since that will only be 30% of my mix? ( i figured id do 1/3 each of that, pinto compost, and perlite.)

Yeah that mix does have a PH buffer . Really that's what a good soil mix does you want it to stay around 6.4 or so PH after watering with plain water no spending countless hours PHing water. Never worked with pino compost not sure how acidic it will get, the organic mix is made to use as is so it will have enough buffer for just its own volume adding to it will make it less or non effective. The 100 dollar question would be how much lime or flour do you need to add. Maybe calculate the rate from your total and minus off a 1/3 to account for the dolomitic lime in the organic mix or suppose you could get a soil PH meter and water in a small amount in when needed. Won"t need much a little goes a long way.

JavaCo said:

Yeah that mix does have a PH buffer . Really that's what a good soil mix does you want it to stay around 6.4 or so PH after watering with plain water no spending countless hours PHing water. Never worked with pino compost not sure how acidic it will get, the organic mix is made to use as is so it will have enough buffer for just its own volume adding to it will make it less or non effective. The 100 dollar question would be how much lime or flour do you need to add. Maybe calculate the rate from your total and minus off a 1/3 to account for the dolomitic lime in the organic mix or suppose you could get a soil PH meter and water in a small amount in when needed. Won"t need much a little goes a long way.

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Looks like the Pinto compost itself tests at 6.8. Would you still add more lime or does this look good as is?

Also I know that I won't need to be testing the PH of my water, but will the water's PH still affect the soil over time? Mine is @ 7.5 if that matters.

Thanks for all of your help, and happy new year!

Probably not with 7.5 water it is a little on the alkaline side but not really enough to make much of a difference in the soil. 6.8 is pretty close to neutral also so doubt it will need much PH up. Maybe you can get away without adding any or add something PH neutral that adds calcium like gypsum. That will keep you from having to use cal/mag in a bottle. Epsom salt is good for magnesium. I just use the food grade kind that people use for constipation. Happy new years , good luck on the grow. A pic of my last grow

Here is my Veganic Super Soil recipe so far. I mixed up my first batch about 10 days ago, and planning to let it cook until mid June.

It is a smaller batch size (24 gallons) which might be helpful to other people growing in an urban area or somewhere they have limited space. Most of the other super soil recipes I have seen are for much larger amounts. I only need about 15-20 gallons at a time so this is what I came up with.

Ingredients are mixed in a 32 gal plastic tote i got from Big Lots.

• Sphagnum Peat Moss - 8 gallons
• Earthworm Castings - 4 gallons
• BAS Pinto Bean Compost - 4 gallons
• Perlite - 8 gallons
• DTE Vegan Mix - 54oz (six 9oz solo cups)
• GrowMore Dolomite Lime - 24oz (two and a half plus a lil more - 9oz solo cups)

I didn't add any myco to this yet, but plan to water in Recharge the week or so before I use it the first time which will hopefully help kick things off a bit more. I will also use Recharge 1x a week throughout veg / flower (up to end of week 5), and maybe a compost tea once or twice during flower.

I will see how this goes and get some initial soil test results and then see about adding Azomite or the Sea90 etc for more trace minerals.

Also finally got solution so I can calibrate my new BlueLab soil ph pen and will do my initial readings shortly when I go out to mix things up.

Tap is reading 7.7.

After being filtered through my Berkey its 7.9.

Soil readings from multiple plants in veg (FFOF) all were exactly 6.8. Maybe from Recharge fixing things up?

Was definitely having some PH issues before I started using it and I havent had a working ph pen for a minute so couldnt tell exactly. Also most of what I thought was cal mag issues went away. I went from using the Roots Organics Elemental dry powder mix into my water every feeding to maybe once every other week just cause I figure a little cant hurt but they dont seem to show the same mottled leaves or burn spots.

The new Veganic soil batch is reading 6.7!

@JavaCo
is this going to change a lot over the next 6-8 weeks as things cook or do you think I will be good?

Update for 2021. I ran this original mix above and it worked great. Then I got lazy and started just ordering BAS Light Mix. They changed the mix at some point and it no longer contains the Pinto Bean Compost, so I figure I might as well just mix my own again (plus have friends always asking me for soil to use, I might as well make extra and sell a few bags).

I have a worm bin going but not yielding enough for more than top dressing and some worm teas. So in my soil I am using Worm Gold Plus castings which are OMRI + contains fossilized kelp + glacial rock dust. also considering them 'veganic' as they do not contain any manure or animal products as inputs for the castings. the fossilized kelp adds calcium so hopefully that will replace need for oyster shell. found them near me for a decent price $20 for the .7 cu ft bag, sometimes on sale cheaper.

Recipe yields @ 3Cut ft of soil. Mixed and 'cooked' in a 32 gal plastic tote i got from Big Lots.

• Sphagnum Peat Moss - 8 gallons
• Earthworm Castings - 8 gallons
• Pumice and/or Perlite - 8 gallons
• DTE Vegan Mix - 7 cups
• GrowMore Dolomite Lime - 3 Cups
• BAS Kelp Meal - 1 1/2 cups
• BAS Karanja Cake - 1 1/2 cups
• BAS Bokashi - 1 cup

@ilovereggae Saw your mix posted and am just starting my search for a vegan soil mix for some 5 gallon SIP's I am starting soon. How has your new recipe been working for you? What did it PH out to after cooking? I asked BAS for a recommendation (other than shipping their Light Mix) and they said their Kelp Meal @ 1/2C per cuf, Alfalfa Meal @ 1/2C per cuf, Brix Basalt @ 2C per cuf and Gypsum & Lime @ 1C per cuf each. Dunno why they didn't mention the Karanja and Bokashi.

I believe your growing in no-till SIPs as well? I plan to direct replant into my SIPs after each grow, so need something that would hold up season after season.

What were you amending your grow with during veg/bloom?

Cheers.

bkkchris said:

@ilovereggae Saw your mix posted and am just starting my search for a vegan soil mix for some 5 gallon SIP's I am starting soon. How has your new recipe been working for you? What did it PH out to after cooking? I asked BAS for a recommendation (other than shipping their Light Mix) and they said their Kelp Meal @ 1/2C per cuf, Alfalfa Meal @ 1/2C per cuf, Brix Basalt @ 2C per cuf and Gypsum & Lime @ 1C per cuf each. Dunno why they didn't mention the Karanja and Bokashi.

I believe your growing in no-till SIPs as well? I plan to direct replant into my SIPs after each grow, so need something that would hold up season after season.

What were you amending your grow with during veg/bloom?

Cheers.

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Hey! Glad to see someone found this useful.

Veg I just use water mostly, some horticultural coconut powder, kelp meal extract tea (just put some kelp meal in quart mason jar fill w water and let sit for a week or so, then use a tsp per gallon of the liquid.), ewc tea, maybe recharge before I flip and during transition.

Here's a 4x4 about to flip this weekend once I install a net and train /defol a little. This has been pretty much water only I think they get recharge and coconut powder once maybe 2x. 3 weeks of veg. would have flipped sooner but work schedule didn't allow. luckily I have another foot or so to raise the fixture. 9 plants, 4 gal SIPs.



During flower I either topdress w ewc and more DTE Vegan mix and/or use buildabloom thru the res. Been doing more of the latter this round for convenience.

Here's my 4x4 @ week 7ish. 12 plants, 6 earthbox Jr's each holding @ 5gal soil.



as for my recipe I just looked at what's in their LOS and Light recipe and tried to get as close as I could using what was local, and what I can't get I order from BAS. Karanja seems to work great to keep away pests and as a nitrogen source.

Looking good! I grow non-cannabis in outdoor SIPs already, but this will be my first actual cannabis grow (outdoors), so just trying to get as much info on people doing the SIP route, but also the vegan grow. Would love to order the BAS Light mix for convenience, but with free shipping only on pallets of that its not realistic - being in LA too, space is a premium, gotta keep everything simple and streamlined!