TRUMP CONVICTED

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
I'm really waiting to see who is named as co-conspirators in the Jan 6th case...with any luck at all, most of the freedumb carcass will be going away with trump, and the republican party will have no other choice than to get some fresh blood...and fresh blood usually looses against seasoned candidates. It could be decades before the party would be a serious threat again, and if the democrats have a lick of sense, they'll spend that time making it much harder for that to happen.
Click to expand...
Jack has already moved on to J6 while finishing up the MAL investigation and waiting for the next stage of that one, more indictments for Trump and others will be forthcoming there. I noticed they only charged Trump and Nauta in a tight little conspiracy that is a simple case and is easy to prove in court with few delays possible. There will be other indictments of Trump and others in Florida and other places too over the MAL documents. I figure J6 will work in stages with Trump, his minions and his cronies up first, then they will work their way along a line of rats to whatever politician and government officials they can nail over J6 and there should be hundreds with the fake electors and Trump appointed government officials who were blocking action on J6. This will go on for years and will cost those involved a fortune in legal fees, even if they are not indicted. It will go on in congress after the court cases with another J6 commission if the democrats win in 24 and new laws written based on the findings.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
I'm really waiting to see who is named as co-conspirators in the Jan 6th case...with any luck at all, most of the freedumb carcass will be going away with trump, and the republican party will have no other choice than to get some fresh blood...and fresh blood usually looses against seasoned candidates. It could be decades before the party would be a serious threat again, and if the democrats have a lick of sense, they'll spend that time making it much harder for that to happen.
Click to expand...
I think if the democrats win in 24 that they will hold J6 hearings after Jack is done with the higher ups in court. Jack and his staff will be invited to testify and the evidence he accumulated will go into the congressional record one day, even the stuff he never used in court will be rehashed in public hearings years from now with new revelations. The J6 committee's report is by no means complete and will need a part 2 after the dust settles a bit. It will be a yoke around the republican's necks for a decade or more, they will be carrying Donald after he dies in his cell and is removed in a bag.

Donald created the modern GOP base by driving out the sensible people and attracting white trash like flies to shit. He had a lot of help, and the party was moving in that direction for a long time, but the election of Obama said, "THEY ARE TAKING OVER"! to many racist Americans who went magat with the usual wingnuts and morons. The problem the likes of Mitch and Rove has is the modern base of the party is a creation and reflection of Trump and the most radical vote in the primaries. As long as Trump is running around loose, they won't be able to get their shit together for the election of 24 and if he wins the nomination or is way out in front, Jack can jerk the rug out from under Trump and them pretty quick. If he loses the nomination, he will attack the republicans run as an independent and endorse his own candidates, even more reason to leaving running around loose.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
Trump wanted to tap aides’ phones to stem leaks, former official says
Former President Trump wanted to wiretap his aides’ phones in order to pursue potential leakers, a former Department of Homeland Security (DHS) aide alleged in an upcoming book, reviewed by NBC.
Miles Taylor, a senior aide to former DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, also claimed that aides had concerns about the way the former president handled classified materials.

Trump has long decried those who leak information to the press as “traitors.” He’s also called for criminal charges against those who leaked information out of his administration.

Taylor recounts in his book an instance when then-press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders warned the former national security adviser John Bolton that Trump had shown classified information about Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi’s murder to a reporter in an interview.
He alleged Bolton “breathed a sigh of relief” when told there were no cameras in the room to capture the documents.
“We were all disturbed by the lapse in protocol and poor protection of classified information,” Taylor writes.
Bolton however told NBC he does not recall the exchange.

Taylor is a known critic of Trump, and he penned an anonymous op-ed in The New York Times criticizing Trump’s character in 2018.

“I witnessed Trump’s inability to do his job over the course of two-and-a-half years. Everyone saw it, though most were hesitant to speak up for fear of reprisals,” he wrote.

A spokesman for Trump denounced the upcoming book, calling Taylor a “lying sack of s–t.”
“His book either belongs in the discount bin of the fiction section or should be repurposed as toilet paper,” spokesman Steven Cheung said.

The remarks come as Trump is facing a criminal indictment for his handling of classified documents after he left the White House. He was charged with 37 counts in relation to the mishandling of records at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, as well as his efforts to block the government from recovering the documents.
thehill.com

Trump wanted to tap aides’ phones to stem leaks, former official says

Former President Trump wanted to wiretap his aides’ phones in order to pursue potential leakers, a former Department of Homeland Security (DHS) aide alleged in an upcoming book, reviewed by NBC. Mi…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I think if the democrats win in 24 that they will hold J6 hearings after Jack is done with the higher ups in court. Jack and his staff will be invited to testify and the evidence he accumulated will go into the congressional record one day, even the stuff he never used in court will be rehashed in public hearings years from now with new revelations. The J6 committee's report is by no means complete and will need a part 2 after the dust settles a bit. It will be a yoke around the republican's necks for a decade or more, they will be carrying Donald after he dies in his cell and is removed in a bag.

Donald created the modern GOP base by driving out the sensible people and attracting white trash like flies to shit. He had a lot of help, and the party was moving in that direction for a long time, but the election of Obama said, "THEY ARE TAKING OVER"! to many racist Americans who went magat with the usual wingnuts and morons. The problem the likes of Mitch and Rove has is the modern base of the party is a creation and reflection of Trump and the most radical vote in the primaries. As long as Trump is running around loose, they won't be able to get their shit together for the election of 24 and if he wins the nomination or is way out in front, Jack can jerk the rug out from under Trump and them pretty quick. If he loses the nomination, he will attack the republicans run as an independent and endorse his own candidates, even more reason to leaving running around loose.
Click to expand...
The GOP was not created by Trump. Many Republicans were already like this at the time of Nixon and their political successes through Reagan. Newt, Shrub, etc. encouraged ever more radicalization. Trump didn't make the Tea Party. The Tea Party gave Trump the MAGA faction.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The GOP was not created by Trump. Many Republicans were already like this at the time of Nixon and their political successes through Reagan. Newt, Shrub, etc. encouraged ever more radicalization. Trump didn't make the Tea Party. The Tea Party gave Trump the MAGA faction.
Click to expand...
Trump "purified it" by driving out what moderates that were left, they were running a racist grift before Trump, but he did it better and blew the dog whistle into a bullhorn. The party is now made up of fanatics and the base has been distilled down to the hardcore, all the sensible people have left, or are keeping their heads down. By the end of the Obama presidency the republican party had become the perfect receptacle and vehicle for Trump, and he even attracted more voters in 2020 than in 2016. The post Obama GOP was ready made for a grifter like Trump to take it over by controlling the base, or enough of it. The GOP had become a grift with culture wars and tax cuts to the rich, but Donald was a better grifter and the party was filled with suckers.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Trump "purified it" by driving out what moderates that were left, they were running a racist grift before Trump, but he did it better and blew the dog whistle into a bullhorn. The party is now made up of fanatics and the base has been distilled down to the hardcore, all the sensible people have left, or are keeping their heads down. By the end of the Obama presidency the republican party had become the perfect receptacle and vehicle for Trump, and he even attracted more voters in 2020 than in 2016. The post Obama GOP was ready made for a grifter like Trump to take it over by controlling the base, or enough of it. The GOP had become a grift with culture wars and tax cuts to the rich, but Donald was a better grifter and the party was filled with suckers.
Click to expand...
Trump also showed that cheating is the way to go. "Donald Trump has shared with audiences at political rallies in the past few years: What matters isn’t who votes but who counts the votes"
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
printer said:
Trump also showed that cheating is the way to go. "Donald Trump has shared with audiences at political rallies in the past few years: What matters isn’t who votes but who counts the votes"
Click to expand...
They know they are losers and on the wrong side of history, winners don't need to cheat, lie and steal. Only a fool would vote for such people and what they stand for which is nothing but stupidity and corruption. They are playing war more than politics anything goes, including their own franchise and rights, as long as they win, but they are a shrinking minority of the population as the generations succeed and society changes. Because the base controls the party they can't change very fast either and policies like prolife that are well past their best before date are an example of this. A sizable number of them can't seem to let go of Trump either and they are his to command with the republicans already in the national minority, they can't afford to lose 10 or 20% of their base. If Trump loses the nomination many republicans will vote for him as an independent and perhaps his endorsed candidates, even if they have to write his name in on the ballot. Of course, Jack could pull the rug out from out under Donald pretty quick and out from under the GOP if they nominate him from his cell.
 
Last edited:
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
They know they are losers and on the wrong side of history, winners don't need to cheat, lie and steal. Only a fool would vote for such people and what they stand for which is nothing but stupidity and corruption. They are playing war more than politics anything goes, including their own franchise and rights, as long as they win, but they are a shrinking minority of the population as the generations succeed and society changes. Because the base controls the party they can't change very fast either and policies like prolife that are well past their best before date are an example of this. A sizable number of them can't seem to let go of Trump either and they are his to command with the republicans already in the national minority, they can't afford to lose 10 or 20% of their base. If Trump loses the nomination many republicans will vote for him as an independent and perhaps his endorsed candidates, even if they have to write his name in on the ballot. Of course, Jack could pull the rug out from out under Donald pretty quick and out from under the GOP if they nominate him from his cell.
Click to expand...
Trump's trial for violation of the Espionage Act will most likely begin early spring. The primary will be underway by then. So, it will be a factor in the primary but it won't be done until after the primaries begin. Maybe this will be good for Trump, maybe it will be bad. Regardless, Trump will not be in prison when the primary season is under way

This article (link below) makes the case that the GOP's primary is a winner-take-all format, which favors Trump against a large field of candidates with a caveat. Trump has to win early and the field has to stay large. We all saw what happened to Bernie, who looked to be the winner in a large field of candidates, when that number shrank from many to just a few. Not saying that will happen but if it does, Trump could be vulnerable.

www.brookings.edu

The only way Trump can lose the Republican nomination | Brookings

The Republican winner-take-all or winner-take-most delegate selection rules are tailor made for a candidate who holds a solid base among primary voters and who can wrack up a series of plurality wins, writes Elaine Kamarck.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

The more likely path to somebody other than Trump accepting the GOP nomination is if he looks vulnerable in the first few primaries. And Trump is vulnerable for several reasons: No matter how one looks at it, the trial does nothing but hurt prospective GOP nominee Trump in the general election. The trial might help him with his base but it's hurting Trump very much among Independent voters. At best, this issue is a wash with Independents. Furthermore, Trump has done nothing to win new voters over since 2020. Add in the cold hard fact that Trump lost the election in 2020. Regardless of a lack of doubt among the core of Trump's base, for those who aren't hard core Trumpers, a seed of doubt has already sprouted in the minds of many Republicans regarding Trump's ability to win in the fall.

So it comes down to this. If Trump looks weak leading up to Super Tuesday. Or if Trump's opponents see a Trump train wreck coming in November and decide to rally around a better candidate. Or both. The entire picture could change after Super Tuesday. Even though the majority of the GOP is rallying around Trump now. Even though the majority of the GOP say Smith's indictment is political BS. There is a good chance that Trump could lose his bid for the nomination. I'm not saying this is likely. Just saying what will happen if all the baggage Trump is carrying causes Trump to look weak early on. We have eight months before the first primary votes are counted. That's a long time to carry the load of baggage Trump has strapped onto him.

A rapid turnabout on or just after Super Tuesday not unprecedented:

 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Trump's trial for violation of the Espionage Act will most likely begin early spring. The primary will be underway by then. So, it will be a factor in the primary but it won't be done until after the primaries begin. Maybe this will be good for Trump, maybe it will be bad. Regardless, Trump will not be in prison when the primary season is under way

This article (link below) makes the case that the GOP's primary is a winner-take-all format, which favors Trump against a large field of candidates with a caveat. Trump has to win early and the field has to stay large. We all saw what happened to Bernie, who looked to be the winner in a large field of candidates, when that number shrank from many to just a few. Not saying that will happen but if it does, Trump could be vulnerable.

www.brookings.edu

The only way Trump can lose the Republican nomination | Brookings

The Republican winner-take-all or winner-take-most delegate selection rules are tailor made for a candidate who holds a solid base among primary voters and who can wrack up a series of plurality wins, writes Elaine Kamarck.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

The more likely path to somebody other than Trump accepting the GOP nomination is if he looks vulnerable in the first few primaries. And Trump is vulnerable for several reasons: No matter how one looks at it, the trial does nothing but hurt prospective GOP nominee Trump in the general election. The trial might help him with his base but it's hurting Trump very much among Independent voters. At best, this issue is a wash with Independents. Furthermore, Trump has done nothing to win new voters over since 2020. Add in the cold hard fact that Trump lost the election in 2020. Regardless of a lack of doubt among the core of Trump's base, for those who aren't hard core Trumpers, a seed of doubt has already sprouted in the minds of many Republicans regarding Trump's ability to win in the fall.

So it comes down to this. If Trump looks weak leading up to Super Tuesday. Or if Trump's opponents see a Trump train wreck coming in November and decide to rally around a better candidate. Or both. The entire picture could change after Super Tuesday. Even though the majority of the GOP is rallying around Trump now. Even though the majority of the GOP say Smith's indictment is political BS. There is a good chance that Trump could lose his bid for the nomination. I'm not saying this is likely. Just saying what will happen if all the baggage Trump is carrying causes Trump to look weak early on. We have eight months before the first primary votes are counted. That's a long time to carry the load of baggage Trump has strapped onto him.

A rapid turnabout on or just after Super Tuesday not unprecedented:

Click to expand...
As far as the MAL docs case goes much depends on Cannon, Jack wants a December trial date to deal with the pretrial motions and secrets part of of the case. The experts say the trial should take between 3 and 6 weeks and Trump has no defense or witnesses, Jack has many. If he is convicted of these crimes, he will be held in custody immediately, the cuffs go on in court. Does she want to make life complicated for the GOP? Because Donald is as good as gone on these charges or others pending. As I said, they only charged Trump and Nauta with the MAL docs and obstruction, so it makes a quick simple case to try and other indictments could be added later in NJ and even DC. That's just for the federal crimes and there are serious state ones pending, so how much does she want to slow things down, speed them up or just plat it normal.

If he gets his December trial date we could see a verdict by March 1st, taking the holidays into consideration. If he is found guilty, he is gone from public view and will be muzzled leaving room for the rest to run. Will the republicans keep him as the nominee if he's sitting in a jail cell looking at life and other multiple state and federal indictments hanging over his head?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
As far as the MAL docs case goes much depends on Cannon, Jack wants a December trial date to deal with the pretrial motions and secrets part of of the case. The experts say the trial should take between 3 and 6 weeks and Trump has no defense or witnesses, Jack has many. If he is convicted of these crimes, he will be held in custody immediately, the cuffs go on in court. Does she want to make life complicated for the GOP? Because Donald is as good as gone on these charges or others pending. As I said, they only charged Trump and Nauta with the MAL docs and obstruction, so it makes a quick simple case to try and other indictments could be added later in NJ and even DC. That's just for the federal crimes and there are serious state ones pending, so how much does she want to slow things down, speed them up or just plat it normal.

If he gets his December trial date we could see a verdict by March 1st, taking the holidays into consideration. If he is found guilty, he is gone from public view and will be muzzled leaving room for the rest to run. Will the republicans keep him as the nominee if he's sitting in a jail cell looking at life and other multiple state and federal indictments hanging over his head?
Click to expand...
I'm going with what Glen Kirshner says he thinks will happen. What he said makes sense. Delay is what Trump always does. It wouldn't take much to push the trial date from Dec to Feb. . Even if the Dec trial takes place and Trump is convicted before Feb. Trump will appeal and he won't go to prison until the appeal is heard and a judgement made. The post trial processes with take months.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm going with what Glen Kirshner says he thinks will happen. What he said makes sense. Delay is what Trump always does. It wouldn't take much to push the trial date from Dec to Feb. . Even if the Dec trial takes place and Trump is convicted before Feb. Trump will appeal and he won't go to prison until the appeal is heard and a judgement made. The post trial processes with take months.
Click to expand...
For these kinds of crimes, the cuffs go on in court upon conviction and appeals are made from the inside, he would be found guilty of multiple crimes by a jury of 12. The timeline is up in the air, but conviction means incarceration for the MAL case, but there will be plenty of other indictments state and federal to keep Donald and the press busy for quite some time.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
For these kinds of crimes, the cuffs go on in court upon conviction and appeals are made from the inside, he would be found guilty of multiple crimes by a jury of 12. The timeline is up in the air, but conviction means incarceration for the MAL case, but there will be plenty of other indictments state and federal to keep Donald and the press busy for quite some time.
Click to expand...
There is nothing that mandates Trump's incarceration after conviction. For the most part, what happens to Trump is up to Judge Cannon.

federalcriminallawcenter.com

Release From Imprisonment Pending An Approval | Federal Criminal Law Center

What happens when a defendant has a case for an appeal? Even after they've been convicted and sentenced, they can still get out on bail. Read more here.
federalcriminallawcenter.com federalcriminallawcenter.com
.

The federal rules state that a person who has been found guilty of an offense and sentenced to a term of imprisonment, and who has filed an appeal or a petition for a writ of certiorari, shall be detained unless the judicial officers finds that:

  • By clear and convincing evidence that the person is not likely to flee or pose a danger to the safety of any other person or the community if released; and
  • The appeal is not for the purpose of delay and raises a substantial question of law or fact likely to result in reversal, an order for a new trial, a sentence that does not include a term of imprisonment, or a reduced sentence to a term of imprisonment less than the total time already served plus the expected duration of the appeal process.
One could argue that he already poses danger to the safety of the community but he is now free. Nothing changes if he's convicted.. I'm not saying you are wrong but it's not as clear to me that he will be incarcerated as it seems to be to you. One thing is certain. incarcerating him will be a political issue. I think the DOJ would not appeal if Cannon decides he should remain free.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
There is nothing that mandates Trump's incarceration after conviction. For the most part, what happens to Trump is up to Judge Cannon.

federalcriminallawcenter.com

Release From Imprisonment Pending An Approval | Federal Criminal Law Center

What happens when a defendant has a case for an appeal? Even after they've been convicted and sentenced, they can still get out on bail. Read more here.
federalcriminallawcenter.com federalcriminallawcenter.com
.

The federal rules state that a person who has been found guilty of an offense and sentenced to a term of imprisonment, and who has filed an appeal or a petition for a writ of certiorari, shall be detained unless the judicial officers finds that:

  • By clear and convincing evidence that the person is not likely to flee or pose a danger to the safety of any other person or the community if released; and
  • The appeal is not for the purpose of delay and raises a substantial question of law or fact likely to result in reversal, an order for a new trial, a sentence that does not include a term of imprisonment, or a reduced sentence to a term of imprisonment less than the total time already served plus the expected duration of the appeal process.
One could argue that he already poses danger to the safety of the community but he is now free. Nothing changes if he's convicted.. I'm not saying you are wrong but it's not as clear to me that he will be incarcerated as it seems to be to you. One thing is certain. incarcerating him will be a political issue. I think the DOJ would not appeal if Cannon decides he should remain free.
Click to expand...
I will note that under the principle of equality under the law that this never happens with espionage and obstruction of justice cases, and she has to be guided by the treatment and sentencing guidelines and precedent. It might be moot though, if Trump keeps making threats and generally flipping out. The stunt with giving out Obama address should have got him locked up since he is in the custody of the court. We will see, more indictments are coming soon enough and when Donald is federal custody, he will be making future court appearances for them in orange, perhaps even for his TV trial in Georgia! :lol:
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I will note that under the principle of equality under the law that this never happens with espionage and obstruction of justice cases, and she has to be guided by the treatment and sentencing guidelines and precedent. It might be moot though, if Trump keeps making threats and generally flipping out. The stunt with giving out Obama address should have got him locked up since he is in the custody of the court. We will see, more indictments are coming soon enough and when Donald is federal custody, he will be making future court appearances for them in orange, perhaps even for his TV trial in Georgia! :lol:
Click to expand...
I'm not saying you are wrong. I agree. By his own words Trump has menaced people and the community in every case that he is been involved. Anybody else would be cooling his heels in jail but not Trump. He is not in jail right now and the conditions will not change after he's convicted and appeals the verdict. So I'm drawing a line between the two dots and believe he won't go to jail until after he's exhausted the appeals process.

It's also possible that Judge Cannon will not sentence Trump to jail if he's convicted. That is up to her. Sentencing guidelines for the kind of crime and Trump's leadership position in committing that crime calls for something like 20 years but she could defer Trump's sentence to probation and no jail time.

 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fogdog said:
I'm not saying you are wrong. I agree. By his own words Trump has menaced people and the community in every case that he is been involved. Anybody else would be cooling his heels in jail but not Trump. He is not in jail right now and the conditions will not change after he's convicted and appeals the verdict. So I'm drawing a line between the two dots and believe he won't go to jail until after he's exhausted the appeals process.

It's also possible that Judge Cannon will not sentence Trump to jail if he's convicted. That is up to her. Sentencing guidelines for the kind of crime and Trump's leadership position in committing that crime calls for something like 20 years but she could defer Trump's sentence to probation and no jail time.

Click to expand...
This. She could impose a weak sentence. That is not in the jury’s control.
 
topcat

topcat

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
I'm really waiting to see who is named as co-conspirators in the Jan 6th case...with any luck at all, most of the freedumb carcass will be going away with trump, and the republican party will have no other choice than to get some fresh blood...and fresh blood usually looses against seasoned candidates. It could be decades before the party would be a serious threat again, and if the democrats have a lick of sense, they'll spend that time making it much harder for that to happen.
Click to expand...
So am I. My wish list to start: Mark Meadows
Jim Jordan
Marge the horse
Ron Johnson
Lindsey Graham
Rudy the drip
Peter Navarro
Mike Flynn
Roger Stone
Paul Gosar
John Eastman
Kevin McCarthy
Steven Miller
Ginni Thomas
Looey Gohmert
Mo Brooks
Josh Hawley
Scott Perry
Andy Biggs
Rick Scott
Steve Bannon

Indict them all (or more) on the same day. I think Jack will make us proud.
 
Last edited:
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
topcat said:
So am I. My wish list to start: Mark Meadows
Jim Jordan
Marge the horse
Ron Johnson
Lindsey Graham
Rudy the drip
Peter Navarro
Mike Flynn
Roger Stone
Paul Gosar
John Eastman
Kevin McCarthy
Steven Miller
Ginni Thomas
Looey Gohmert
Mo Brooks
Josh Hawley
Scott Perry
Andy Biggs
Rick Scott

Indict them all (or more) on the same day. I think Jack will make us proud.
Click to expand...
don’t forget Matt “Nice training bra” Gaetz
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top