TRUMP CONVICTED

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Phytoplankton

Well-Known Member
Personally, and with background in classified documents and laws, the Mar Lago documents are best case against Trump. His own words will hang him. There's a big difference between Trump's actions in knowingly concealing and failing to return classified documents, and those of Biden and Pence who INADVERTENTLY or unknowingly mishandled documents (and probably didn't pack the boxes they were in) and then immediately cooperated in returning them. Additonally, there are very specific rules for even having classified documents out of a security area or vault (and trust me, Mar Lago is not a security area). I had handcarry authority, and I was a derivative classifier. I could classify a document using existing classification guides. I could carry classifed docs from one facility to another, the documents had to be double wrapped, with all envelope seams taped with tamper proof tape, the inner envelope had the level and category of the documents on the envelope, the outer envelope was similarly taped, but bore no classification markings, just a mailing address. If I had to stay overnight in a hotel, the documents had to be brought to the FBI or a secure facility with authority to hold classified, where they were stored overnight, and I would pick them up in ther morning. I could not keep them in my possession overnight!. As far as the President being able to declassify by "thinking about it", that's a crock, there is very specific way to declassifiy documents, and there's an extensive paper trail. Declassification also requires the originating agency to concur with declassification. I've been out of that game for a while, but when I left, NSI (National Security Information) at any level (Confidential Secret or Top Secret was classified for a minimum of 10 years, and up to 50 years, when it was reviewed to determine if it could be declassified. Restricted Data (Weapons Data) is "Born Classified" and remains classified for 50 years, when it can be re-reviewed. Some of the Trump Documents, were SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information) and some others were SAP (Special Access Programs) you have to be "Read into" (and out of) those programs. Those two categories are the most sensitive of all documents, and dislcosure could result in "Grave Danger to National Security".
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Phytoplankton said:
Personally, and with background in classified documents and laws, the Mar Lago documents are best case against Trump. His own words will hang him. There's a big difference between Trump's actions in knowingly concealing and failing to return classified documents, and those of Biden and Pence who INADVERTENTLY or unknowingly mishandled documents (and probably didn't pack the boxes they were in) and then immediately cooperated in returning them. Additonally, there are very specific rules for even having classified documents out of a security area or vault (and trust me, Mar Lago is not a security area). I had handcarry authority, and I was a derivative classifier. I could classify a document using existing classification guides. I could carry classifed docs from one facility to another, the documents had to be double wrapped, with all envelope seams taped with tamper proof tape, the inner envelope had the level and category of the documents on the envelope, the outer envelope was similarly taped, but bore no classification markings, just a mailing address. If I had to stay overnight in a hotel, the documents had to be brought to the FBI or a secure facility with authority to hold classified, where they were stored overnight, and I would pick them up in ther morning. I could not keep them in my possession overnight!. As far as the President being able to declassify by "thinking about it", that's a crock, there is very specific way to declassifiy documents, and there's an extensive paper trail. Declassification also requires the originating agency to concur with declassification. I've been out of that game for a while, but when I left, NSI (National Security Information) at any level (Confidential Secret or Top Secret was classified for a minimum of 10 years, and up to 50 years, when it was reviewed to determine if it could be declassified. Restricted Data (Weapons Data) is "Born Classified" and remains classified for 50 years, when it can be re-reviewed. Some of the Trump Documents, were SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information) and some others were SAP (Special Access Programs) you have to be "Read into" (and out of) those programs. Those two categories are the most sensitive of all documents, and dislcosure could result in "Grave Danger to National Security".
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I have a question regarding how SCI documents are tracked. Trump obviously had them in his possession before he left the WH and took them with him. Would Trump or an aide with clearance have had to sign a record notifying the security agency in charge that Trump was taking possession of them? After he took possession of them, how would those documents be tracked? I'm thinking that every day Trump kept them, some sort of alert should have sounded to let the department know that Trump still holds them. I don't know how the system works, so just asking if people in the records office knew exactly which documents to look for when they searched his office. Also asking if they should know how many and which SCI or other important classified documents are still missing.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I have a question regarding how SCI documents are tracked. Trump obviously had them in his possession before he left the WH and took them with him. Would Trump or an aide with clearance have had to sign a record notifying the security agency in charge that Trump was taking possession of them? After he took possession of them, how would those documents be tracked? I'm thinking that every day Trump kept them, some sort of alert should have sounded to let the department know that Trump still holds them. I don't know how the system works, so just asking if people in the records office knew exactly which documents to look for when they searched his office. Also asking if they should know how many and which SCI or other important classified documents are still missing.
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I noticed in the evidence photo that many of the documents were photocopies, you can tell by the white border around the red or yellow cover page, original cover sheets are printed by the government, run to the edge of the page and have no borders. He may have returned many of the originals, but his record keeping was chaotic to say the least and original documents were mixed in too, as one can see from the photo.

1688497352367.png
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
I noticed in the evidence photo that many of the documents were photocopies, you can tell by the white border around the red or yellow cover page, original cover sheets are printed by the government, run to the edge of the page and have no borders. He may have returned many of the originals, but his record keeping was chaotic to say the least and original documents were mixed in too, as one can see from the photo.

View attachment 5305018
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yeah, him keeping copies makes it harder to keep track of shit...
The making of those copies is a crime of it's own, though.
There just has to be tighter controls over hard copies of documents. Build a special room at the white house that acts as a secure area, all documents MUST remain in that room, that has no copier in it, and all cell phones get checked in at the door before you are allowed in. Once they're done using the documents, they get hand delivered back where they came from. That can't be that hard...
 
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P

Phytoplankton

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I have a question regarding how SCI documents are tracked. Trump obviously had them in his possession before he left the WH and took them with him. Would Trump or an aide with clearance have had to sign a record notifying the security agency in charge that Trump was taking possession of them? After he took possession of them, how would those documents be tracked? I'm thinking that every day Trump kept them, some sort of alert should have sounded to let the department know that Trump still holds them. I don't know how the system works, so just asking if people in the records office knew exactly which documents to look for when they searched his office. Also asking if they should know how many and which SCI or other important classified documents are still missing.
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I'm not sure if the records office has access to all the different accountability systems for classified, but the agencies that produced the documents certainly know, ie. DOD, FBI, CIA, DOE, etc. Those type of docs (SAP/SCIF), and any TS document are "accountable", which means they are tracked by who has a copy, it's location, and should be inventoried yearly, but the inventory is often done by the document holder, and in my experience is often "pencil whipped". Copies are numbered and need to be added into the accountability system. Most SAP/SCIF documents are not supossed to leave the vault, but it can be done, I'm sure that the White House has the appropriate storage capabilty and alarm systems. When TS, SAP or SCIF documents are destroyed, there is a "Certificate of Destruction" issued and the destruction is witnessed. That document is noted as destroyed in the accountabilty system and no longer tracked. The inventory may be how they knew that Trump had the documents. Secret and Confidential documents are not that way, orginals and copies are put into a system by who has a copy, but they do not require a certificate of destruction, you can just shred them, and they are not inventoried. I also saw some ORCON documents in the news clips, those are "Originator Controlled" which means the agency that produced the document must give approval before copies are made or disseminated. ORCON documents also tend to contain very sensitive information!
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
BREAKING: Donald Trump has a full-blown post-July 4th meltdown on Truth Social that even has some MAGA supporters thinking that he's finally lost it.

The caps lock rant insisted that "MASSIVE PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT" is unfolding and a "WEAPONIZATION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT" that "CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN."

As if frothing at the mouth, he went on to screech out a long list of grievances about crime, inflation, the borders, the economy, energy independence, and how our "ELECTIONS ARE RIGGED."

Most absurdly, he claimed that "OUR “LEADER” IS MERCILESSLY MOCKED" which, of course, far more accurately describes the time that he himself was in the White House.

The world has infinitely more respect for Joe Biden than Donald Trump — and the former has demonstrated repeatedly how much more capable of governing he is than the washed up reality TV star.

Trump ended his rant by calling for a "PROTEST" against the "POTENTIAL DOOM" of the country. The call should not be brushed off lightly, as many of his deranged MAGA fans will likely see it as a call for another insurrection.

This man needs to be prosecuted and locked up before he has a chance to attempt another coup. American democracy depends upon it.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676622557494272000
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

From ‘sore loser’ to prison? Trump nightmare deepens as Jack Smith hits AZ 2020 plot with subpoenas

113,450 views Jul 5, 2023 #msnbc #arizona #trump
The Arizona Secretary of State’s office has been subpoenaed by special counsel Jack Smith as part of his probe into Trump’s false electors plot. The subpoena is reportedly seeking information about lawsuits from the Trump campaign and the state's GOP chair, that alleged errors and fraud in the 2020 election.
 
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ec121

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
BREAKING: Donald Trump has a full-blown post-July 4th meltdown on Truth Social that even has some MAGA supporters thinking that he's finally lost it.

The caps lock rant insisted that "MASSIVE PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT" is unfolding and a "WEAPONIZATION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT" that "CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN."

As if frothing at the mouth, he went on to screech out a long list of grievances about crime, inflation, the borders, the economy, energy independence, and how our "ELECTIONS ARE RIGGED."

Most absurdly, he claimed that "OUR “LEADER” IS MERCILESSLY MOCKED" which, of course, far more accurately describes the time that he himself was in the White House.

The world has infinitely more respect for Joe Biden than Donald Trump — and the former has demonstrated repeatedly how much more capable of governing he is than the washed up reality TV star.

Trump ended his rant by calling for a "PROTEST" against the "POTENTIAL DOOM" of the country. The call should not be brushed off lightly, as many of his deranged MAGA fans will likely see it as a call for another insurrection.

This man needs to be prosecuted and locked up before he has a chance to attempt another coup. American democracy depends upon it.


https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1676622557494272000
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Lol at that Twitter account saying that even some MAGA supporters think he's lost it. Anyone still MAGA today, after all that has transpired over the last several months, will not be thinking he has lost it over yet another unhinged tweet. Trump was correct that he could shoot someone in the street and still have his core cult looking for their cup of Kool Aid.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ec121 said:
Lol at that Twitter account saying that even some MAGA supporters think he's lost it. Anyone still MAGA today, after all that has transpired over the last several months, will not be thinking he has lost it over yet another unhinged tweet. Trump was correct that he could shoot someone in the street and still have his core cult looking for their cup of Kool Aid.
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Yep, his cult is not affected by negative news about Trump or attracted to alternative candidates who might have a better chance of winning. Trump has a cult who follow HIM, not a party or care about policies. That said, Trump lost the 2020 election and has done nothing to attract new voters. The indictments do influence people away from Trump, so, yes, he could shoot a somebody on 5th ave, etc, and not lose support but still lose in '24.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Bagginski said:
…only so they can shift to deJackass - or RFKJR
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Anything that divides them, Trump is the glue that holds them together and paradoxically divides them too, he has his base of fanatics who will follow him to Hell, and they make up most of the current GOP. It will be interesting to see what happens as he goes down in flames and especially when!

The main question over the docs case is if Judge Cannon is more loyal to Trump than to the republican party and he has a speedy trial and Florida is noted for its "rocket docket". Dividing their vote in 2024 is the best shot you have, and Donald is the best one to do that as he goes down in flames panicking and freaking out all the way through the primaries and to election day. He is gonna be in court a lot between now and election day, no need to recite the pending indictments both state and federal he is facing.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Let's say Jack gets a December trial date with a 6-week trial to verdict, say around the middle or end of February 2024. Once he is convicted of multiple crimes, he should be cuffed, held in custody and off the primary trial with a muzzle in his gob doing time until sentencing. It is possible that Donald will be in custody during the primaries or as soon as they begin, maybe even after he wins the republican nomination! Then it would be the big house versus the Whitehouse with all Donald's many public appearances in court wearing orange! If the republicans drop him, he will run as a bull moose and millions of morons will write him in on their ballots and vote for his endorsed independent candidates...

I can't see this ending well for Donald or the republicans in 24.

 
E

ec121

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Yep, his cult is not affected by negative news about Trump or attracted to alternative candidates who might have a better chance of winning. Trump has a cult who follow HIM, not a party or care about policies. That said, Trump lost the 2020 election and has done nothing to attract new voters. The indictments do influence people away from Trump, so, yes, he could shoot a somebody on 5th ave, etc, and not lose support but still lose in '24.
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Yeah. His rallies are crying about how he didn't do anything wrong and never says a word about what he'd do if elected. At least in 2016 he made a bunch of promises. The odd part is he kept next to zero of those promises and his cult forgets about the fact he had his shot and looked like a monkey fucking a football for 4 years.
Reds will always vote red no matter who is on the ticket, but like you said he's not attracting anyone new and certainly not independents.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED said:
Anything that divides them, Trump is the glue that holds them together and paradoxically divides them too, he has his base of fanatics who will follow him to Hell, and they make up most of the current GOP. It will be interesting to see what happens as he goes down in flames and especially when!

The main question over the docs case is if Judge Cannon is more loyal to Trump than to the republican party and he has a speedy trial and Florida is noted for its "rocket docket". Dividing their vote in 2024 is the best shot you have, and Donald is the best one to do that as he goes down in flames panicking and freaking out all the way through the primaries and to election day. He is gonna be in court a lot between now and election day, no need to recite the pending indictments both state and federal he is facing.
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"dividing their vote is the best shot you have"

umm, no

Staying unified is the best shot Democrats have. Unify around Biden and Bidenomics in '24. I'd prefer a more socially progressive agenda from Democrats but I think now is not the time to push for it. Hand a major loss to Republicans one more time in '24 and then check to political temperature. I think '24 will be Trumpism's last stand and after 8 straight years in a row of losing elections, Republicans will shred their own party. If so, I think '26 is when Democrats can start deciding the details Medicare for all and better gun regulations. We showed in 2021 how much Democrats can do when we act together and the enemy is at bay.
 
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