The Marshall islands.

Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
67 Nuclear bombs. Ageing bunker with water lapping its sides full of Nuclear and possibly biological waste. Should somebody clean this up? Who should bare the brunt of costs?
Looks like a stunning place.
www.latimes.com

How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

The U.S. buried nuclear waste in the Pacific after WWII. It’s close to resurfacing.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

www.latimes.com

U.S. says leaking nuclear waste dome is safe; Marshall Islands leaders don't believe it

The DOE says that radioactive leakage from Runit Dome is insignificant. Marshall Islands leaders are skeptical.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

theconversation.com

75 years after nuclear testing in the Pacific began, the fallout continues to wreak havoc

In 1946, the US began its nuclear testing on Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands – a terrifying thought for many Australians. Some 75 years on, the evidence shows their fears were well-founded.
theconversation.com theconversation.com

 
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hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the billions America has put in that region since we blew the shit out of it in the 50s really is not enough to clean that mess up.

We also need to work on getting off of fossil fuels, forever chemicals, and plastics that are impacting the globe too. It sucks when rich white men (at least in the nations that white people are elevated above all others) decades ago decisions are still impacting the world today. Another is chopping down old growth forests and moving into areas that are ecologically fragile displacing the original peoples/nature of those areas.

It sucks. Our species has a lot of work to do to overcome the last few hundred years of 'progress'.

It does give me hope though that after several millennia of human society, we are finally getting to a point that we have one political party (the Democrats), in a powerful nation (America), that is led by people whose origins span the globe and are close to 100% representative of our planet. Through this we have a far better understanding of specific needs of the world and can be far better stewards of everything around us.

Hopefully this trend continues and we can get past the monocultural political parties and do a even better job, and be a beacon to the rest of the world to follow suit.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Yet another absolutely disgusting case of ongoing American Colonialism. Notice how we made Hawaii a state just as the French were kicked out of Vietnam, and likewise, China invaded Tibet at exactly the same time. The writing was on the wall and it was obvious that the West could no longer enslave every single non-white nation on earth. Western Colonialism was the trigger for Japanese Imperialism-WW2 would not have happened without Admiral Perry pointing his guns at Yokohama and forcing the disastrous "unequal treaties" on Japan. The USA and China follow the same Japanese Imperial model, which was pioneered by Japan with Taiwan in 1895. Make the colony part of the "homeland" and dilute the indigenous population with foreigners (ethnic cleansing). It's absolutely disgusting that this is still going on, but the truth is, Colonialism never truly died-the only countries that gained their freedom were the ones with a large enough population to fight back. The USA conducted HUNDREDS of atmospheric nuclear tests in the South Pacific-that radiation swept the globe and contributes to worldwide cancer rates to this day. I would love to see the Pacific Island nations gain their freedom from France, Chile, the USA, and various other countries, including the disgusting economic Imperialism practiced by China in Tonga and several other Island nations.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
Yet another absolutely disgusting case of ongoing American Colonialism. Notice how we made Hawaii a state just as the French were kicked out of Vietnam, and likewise, China invaded Tibet at exactly the same time. The writing was on the wall and it was obvious that the West could no longer enslave every single non-white nation on earth. Western Colonialism was the trigger for Japanese Imperialism-WW2 would not have happened without Admiral Perry pointing his guns at Yokohama and forcing the disastrous "unequal treaties" on Japan. The USA and China follow the same Japanese Imperial model, which was pioneered by Japan with Taiwan in 1895. Make the colony part of the "homeland" and dilute the indigenous population with foreigners (ethnic cleansing). It's absolutely disgusting that this is still going on, but the truth is, Colonialism never truly died-the only countries that gained their freedom were the ones with a large enough population to fight back. The USA conducted HUNDREDS of atmospheric nuclear tests in the South Pacific-that radiation swept the globe and contributes to worldwide cancer rates to this day. I would love to see the Pacific Island nations gain their freedom from France, Chile, the USA, and various other countries, including the disgusting economic Imperialism practiced by China in Tonga and several other Island nations.
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Did 'ethnic cleansing' happen in the Marshall Islands by Americans? I checked it looks like about 2500 Americans live there today. I don't really know much about the people who originally inhabited it.

This is from our state department.

www.state.gov

U.S. Relations With Marshall Islands - United States Department of State

More information about the Marshall Islands is available on the Marshall Islands country page and from other Department of State publications and other sources listed at the end of this fact sheet. U.S.-MARSHALL ISLANDS (RMI) RELATIONS In 1947, the United Nations assigned the United States...
www.state.gov www.state.gov
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Yeah, the billions America has put in that region since we blew the shit out of it in the 50s really is not enough to clean that mess up.
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Isn't it strange that humans nearly always destroy beautiful places ? Something is wrong with our brains.
I think trillions are needed to clean it up.

The tribunal, established by the two countries in 1988, concluded the United States should pay $2.3 billion in claims, but Congress and U.S courts have refused. Documents show the U.S. paid just $4 million.

They don't seem to want to even build a fence.
"May 2019, Marshallese officials requested that the Department of Energy build a fence around the island where the dome is located, to keep people off.
In July 2019, DOE officials responded claiming they didn’t have the funding to build a fence and installation of a perimeter would be logistically too complex."
 
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Did 'ethnic cleansing' happen in the Marshall Islands by Americans? I checked it looks like about 2500 Americans live there today. I don't really know much about the people who originally inhabited it
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Probably. Nuclear weapons detonation, waste and Biological tests would suggest its arguable, as is forcibly removing people.

History of the people is interesting.
History of the Marshall Islands
The Marshall Islands were settled initially around the beginning of the Christian era by Micronesians who may have been influenced by early Polynesian (Lapita) culture. Radiocarbon dates from earth-oven charcoal samples that were excavated in Laura village on Majuro yielded dates of about 30 BCE and 50 CE. The early Marshall Islanders were skilled navigators and made long canoe voyages among the atolls.


Sighted in 1529 by the Spanish navigator Álvaro Saavedra, the Marshalls lacked the wealth to encourage exploitation or mapping. The British captain Samuel Wallis chanced upon Rongerik and Rongelap atolls while sailing from Tahiti to Tinian. The British naval captains John Marshall and Thomas Gilbert partially explored the Marshalls in 1788, but much of the mapping was done by Russian expeditions under Adam Johann Krusenstern (1803) and Otto von Kotzebue (1815 and 1823). U.S. whalers frequented the islands from the 1820s, and U.S. and Hawaiian Protestant missionaries began efforts to convert the islanders in the 1850s. Germany established a coaling station on Jaluit Atoll by treaty with island chiefs and in 1886, by agreement with Great Britain, established a protectorate over the Marshalls. Japan seized the islands in 1914 and later (after 1919) administered them as a League of Nations mandate. Occupied by the United States in World War II, following heavy fighting at Kwajalein and Enewetak, the Marshall Islands were made part of the United Nations Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands under jurisdiction of the United States in 1947.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Lucky Luke said:
Isn't it strange that humans nearly always destroy beautiful places ? Something is wrong with our brains.
I think trillions are needed to clean it up.

The tribunal, established by the two countries in 1988, concluded the United States should pay $2.3 billion in claims, but Congress and U.S courts have refused. Documents show the U.S. paid just $4 million.

They don't seem to want to even build a fence.
"May 2019, Marshallese officials requested that the Department of Energy build a fence around the island where the dome is located, to keep people off.
In July 2019, DOE officials responded claiming they didn’t have the funding to build a fence and installation of a perimeter would be logistically too complex."
Click to expand...
From the article you posted it says that the US has paid about $500 million (in 2010 I am guessing if Obama was able to get anything through the Republican controlled congress after fixing the Great Recession that Bush and the Republicans dumped on the American people, that number would be higher 12 years later) so not sure why you would point to the $4 million number.
Screen Shot 2022-02-21 at 7.45.26 AM.png

Lucky Luke said:
Probably. Nuclear weapons detonation, waste and Biological tests would suggest its arguable, as is forcibly removing people.
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'Probably' is not really convincing when the topic was 'ethnic cleansing' by America. I guess unless you are just trying to shit talk America, then maybe you would.

I don't know much about this region, and with Russia currently attacking every Democratic nation on the planet, and posturing to attack Ukraine that could end up with tens of thousands killed and millions of people to be turned into refugees, this is unfortunately will likely once again be pushed into the background.

I did find a more updated hearing though led by Katie Porter (Democrat) if you were interested in more updated information.

https://naturalresources.house.gov/hearings/runit-dome-and-the-us-nuclear-legacy-in-the-marshall-islands

Lucky Luke said:
Probably. Nuclear weapons detonation, waste and Biological tests would suggest its arguable, as is forcibly removing people.

History of the people is interesting.
History of the Marshall Islands
The Marshall Islands were settled initially around the beginning of the Christian era by Micronesians who may have been influenced by early Polynesian (Lapita) culture. Radiocarbon dates from earth-oven charcoal samples that were excavated in Laura village on Majuro yielded dates of about 30 BCE and 50 CE. The early Marshall Islanders were skilled navigators and made long canoe voyages among the atolls.


Sighted in 1529 by the Spanish navigator Álvaro Saavedra, the Marshalls lacked the wealth to encourage exploitation or mapping. The British captain Samuel Wallis chanced upon Rongerik and Rongelap atolls while sailing from Tahiti to Tinian. The British naval captains John Marshall and Thomas Gilbert partially explored the Marshalls in 1788, but much of the mapping was done by Russian expeditions under Adam Johann Krusenstern (1803) and Otto von Kotzebue (1815 and 1823). U.S. whalers frequented the islands from the 1820s, and U.S. and Hawaiian Protestant missionaries began efforts to convert the islanders in the 1850s. Germany established a coaling station on Jaluit Atoll by treaty with island chiefs and in 1886, by agreement with Great Britain, established a protectorate over the Marshalls. Japan seized the islands in 1914 and later (after 1919) administered them as a League of Nations mandate. Occupied by the United States in World War II, following heavy fighting at Kwajalein and Enewetak, the Marshall Islands were made part of the United Nations Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands under jurisdiction of the United States in 1947.
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With all the global trouncing on this island, it might be a good thing that we signed a treaty with them in the 80's.
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
yeah you can also throw in the French, China, Pakistan, and India as well......Russia is just stupid....lets try mining with one, ok where are we gonna set it off.....Ruler: there but that Dobas...yep....and while were at it let make a lake with one....where we gonna do this one....let go to Kazakstan (sp) ck out the radioactive lake there otherwise know as the lake of death...
 
SFnone

SFnone

Well-Known Member
The US and Russia used to set off a shit load of nukes, with seemingly no real reason in mind other than "why not?". There was one test where the US shot a huge Hydrogen Bomb into the atmosphere just to see what would happen. "Starfish Prime" I think... Kennedy was in charge on that one. It was actually only one of several high altitude "tests", but was the most significant in terms of unexpected and long lasting effects.

Then there were the routine Las Vegas tests, each sold as being a fabulous show.


Trump wanted to resume standard testing, which in turn would have given Russia an excuse to do so as well. Guaranteed his kiss asses in the party would have told people it's all fine, then you'd have his followers dancing around in the fallout, because "it's their right dammit! And besides, every real american knows radiation poisoning and genetic mutation from fallout is fake news!"
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
From the article you posted it says that the US has paid about $500 million (in 2010 I am guessing if Obama was able to get anything through the Republican controlled congress after fixing the Great Recession that Bush and the Republicans dumped on the American people, that number would be higher 12 years later) so not sure why you would point to the $4 million number.
View attachment 5089425


'Probably' is not really convincing when the topic was 'ethnic cleansing' by America. I guess unless you are just trying to shit talk America, then maybe you would.

I don't know much about this region, and with Russia currently attacking every Democratic nation on the planet, and posturing to attack Ukraine that could end up with tens of thousands killed and millions of people to be turned into refugees, this is unfortunately will likely once again be pushed into the background.

I did find a more updated hearing though led by Katie Porter (Democrat) if you were interested in more updated information.

https://naturalresources.house.gov/hearings/runit-dome-and-the-us-nuclear-legacy-in-the-marshall-islands

With all the global trouncing on this island, it might be a good thing that we signed a treaty with them in the 80's.
Click to expand...
I wasn't the one who brought up ethnic cleansing and as my original comment Australia was involved to, So any shit talking applies to both countries so there isn't a need to get defensive like you tend to do.
It seems like a lot of the money was spent actually taking people from their homes and relocating them.
But either way the problem still exists and it hasn't been addressed.

It really needs to be.
 
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