T5 for first week of flower

My flower room will be tied up for two extra weeks for drying it will be slowing down my next cycle. My question is would it affect yield or quality if I put the next batch of plants into flower for 1 week under T5s at 830 watts before transferring into hps flower room?
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
The biggest change will be in "morphology" - plant shape and development.

Going to a low power light will reduce growth but the advantages of using a blue heavy light are that plants grown in a classical "veg" light will tend to be short and compact with lots of branches and small leaves and very short internodal distance which allows buds to "stack". Blue photons in inhibit cell expansion so plants will tend to grow out instead of up. That's why "back in the day", cannabis was grown with veg lights and then flower lights.

HPS is a classic flower light — lots and lots of red and just enough blue to stop plants from growing abnormally (yeh, you need at least 4% blue or cannabis gets weird).

My first modern LED was a Mars SP 3000. It worked fine but, as I learned about grow lighting, I decided to go with a Growcraft veg light and then one of their flower lights. The plant below is an example of a plant that was vegged with a veg light. Full disclosure - it was also topped and LST'd but the blue light gave me a lot of branches and leaves and then the flower light made everything fill out.

If you don't use a light that has blue in it in veg, you'll get very tall plants and they can be a PITA to work with and to harvest.

830 watts is a bucket load of input power. I'd recommend sending Amazon $32 and they'll send you back a Uni-T light meter. I've attached a copy of a document I wrote about converting lux to PPFD and it will help you set your light levels.
 

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I’ll probably run the lights at 415 watts and I do have a light meter I use I run around 300-500 ppfd under the T5s..My question is will starting flower for 1 week under the T5s affect the yield and quality negatively. It should keep the plant more compact under T5s which should be a good thing
 

driver77

Well-Known Member
I don't think 1 week will hurt you too bad. People have flowered all the way through with t5's...although results weren't great. I would keep the light as close to the plant as you can and get it under something else asap.
 
I don't think 1 week will hurt you too bad. People have flowered all the way through with t5's...although results weren't great. I would keep the light as close to the plant as you can and get it under something else asap.
Ya that’s what I was thinking as long as it doesn’t go any longer than 1 week under the T5s..I’m just trying to shave a week off the next cycle
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
I’ll probably run the lights at 415 watts and I do have a light meter I use I run around 300-500 ppfd under the T5s..My question is will starting flower for 1 week under the T5s affect the yield and quality negatively. It should keep the plant more compact under T5s which should be a good thing
Will it reduce yield and quality.

If "quality" is secondary metabolites, I've not seen anything that indicates that. Given that blue heavy light in veg will tend to increase branching, it might be arguable that it could increase the mass of secondary metabolites but my sense is that would be an incredibly hard argument to make, in terms of a practical difference.

"crop quality" is also defined as the ratio of flower to above ground mass. In that case, using a blue light could be argued to increase quality because there's less mass in the stems. One of the reasons I like a veg light is not because the quality metric looks better (I don't measure weights like that) but because the plants are easier to work with.

In terms of yield, it might be that a there's a reduction in flower yield if you use a veg light (in veg) vs just going with a flower light all the way through. The difference? It would be a challenge to quantify unless you're in a lab. I've seen no research that looks into that and one paper that showed yield decreased as the percentage of blue increased but, IIRC, that was when blue was used throughout the grow cycle. I've attached the paper for your review.

Bugbee, and subsequently Westmoreland, have commented on "the optimal spectrum" and both have said that a white LED with some far red is "optimal" but, overall, the best approach is to get plants to their light saturation point and keep them there.

Will using a T5 in veg reduce yield or quality? On the latter, I've seen nothing on that; for the former, perhaps in a lab but, in the real world, a grow is subject to so many impacts other than what might be caused by a couple of weeks of a T5 that, for me, I take advantage of a veg light to impact plant morphology because, when a cannabis plant is given a lot of light throughout its lifecycle, the yield is truly staggering.

As an addendum - based on Mitch Westmoreland's videos of earlier this year (YouTube), the key to maximizing yield and secondary metabolites, my growing practice will be to keep plants at the light saturation point throughout their lifecycle while allowing canopy temp to reach up to 85° until the second week in flower after which the temperature of tops of the flowers should not exceed 78°F. The high temps and high light conditions maximize plant "build out" while the lowered temperatures help to reduce loss of secondary metabolites.


Below are couple of screenshots from Westmoreland's YT videos. I've read a handful of research documents that provide the details of what he shares in his videos but, if you want to not have to grind through that level of information, his videos are an absolute gold mine of "just do this".

In the screenshot below, note the caption in the lower left - it's all about the DLI.

In his video, Westmoreland reveals the hard truth - cannabis yield estimate is a function of DLI. Per Westmoreland, flower yield in grams is 0.2 to 0.3 * the number of mols of light the plant has received over its lifespan. The rationale for this is that the only way plants can grow is by using light to generate glucose which is then used for growth. There's simply no other way for a plant to grow than by using the glucose that it generates.

So a veg light will yield plants of a different shape but, overall, yield is a function of how many photons hit the canopy.

Long answer, no doubt, but there are no perfect solutions, only tradeoffs.

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Delps8

Well-Known Member
I’ll probably run the lights at 415 watts and I do have a light meter I use I run around 300-500 ppfd under the T5s..My question is will starting flower for 1 week under the T5s affect the yield and quality negatively. It should keep the plant more compact under T5s which should be a good thing
300-500 is right in the ballpark but if the leaves start to curl or rotate to a vertical orientation around their petiole, back it down a bit. Been there, done that. :-)
 
Will it reduce yield and quality.

If "quality" is secondary metabolites, I've not seen anything that indicates that. Given that blue heavy light in veg will tend to increase branching, it might be arguable that it could increase the mass of secondary metabolites but my sense is that would be an incredibly hard argument to make, in terms of a practical difference.

"crop quality" is also defined as the ratio of flower to above ground mass. In that case, using a blue light could be argued to increase quality because there's less mass in the stems. One of the reasons I like a veg light is not because the quality metric looks better (I don't measure weights like that) but because the plants are easier to work with.

In terms of yield, it might be that a there's a reduction in flower yield if you use a veg light (in veg) vs just going with a flower light all the way through. The difference? It would be a challenge to quantify unless you're in a lab. I've seen no research that looks into that and one paper that showed yield decreased as the percentage of blue increased but, IIRC, that was when blue was used throughout the grow cycle. I've attached the paper for your review.

Bugbee, and subsequently Westmoreland, have commented on "the optimal spectrum" and both have said that a white LED with some far red is "optimal" but, overall, the best approach is to get plants to their light saturation point and keep them there.

Will using a T5 in veg reduce yield or quality? On the latter, I've seen nothing on that; for the former, perhaps in a lab but, in the real world, a grow is subject to so many impacts other than what might be caused by a couple of weeks of a T5 that, for me, I take advantage of a veg light to impact plant morphology because, when a cannabis plant is given a lot of light throughout its lifecycle, the yield is truly staggering.

As an addendum - based on Mitch Westmoreland's videos of earlier this year (YouTube), the key to maximizing yield and secondary metabolites, my growing practice will be to keep plants at the light saturation point throughout their lifecycle while allowing canopy temp to reach up to 85° until the second week in flower after which the temperature of tops of the flowers should not exceed 78°F. The high temps and high light conditions maximize plant "build out" while the lowered temperatures help to reduce loss of secondary metabolites.


Below are couple of screenshots from Westmoreland's YT videos. I've read a handful of research documents that provide the details of what he shares in his videos but, if you want to not have to grind through that level of information, his videos are an absolute gold mine of "just do this".

In the screenshot below, note the caption in the lower left - it's all about the DLI.

In his video, Westmoreland reveals the hard truth - cannabis yield estimate is a function of DLI. Per Westmoreland, flower yield in grams is 0.2 to 0.3 * the number of mols of light the plant has received over its lifespan. The rationale for this is that the only way plants can grow is by using light to generate glucose which is then used for growth. There's simply no other way for a plant to grow than by using the glucose that it generates.

So a veg light will yield plants of a different shape but, overall, yield is a function of how many photons hit the canopy.

Long answer, no doubt, but there are no perfect solutions, only tradeoffs.

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Fantastic information thank you Do u have a link to morelands YouTube channel ?
 
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