Switch Coco/Salts to water only Soil..?

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Definitely hit a burnout with coco and feeding salt fertilizer, need a water only solution that isn't going to break the bank at a moderate scale of 16 x 15 gallon plants harvesting 6 plants per/month.

I purchased some M3 Mix but the price seems a bit steep considering the ingredients. I can get a somewhat similar soil like Happy Frog for $10/bag so I'd be saving $15/bag but I don't think Happy Frog will carry plants through veg & flower and come close to coco and salt fertilizer.

Any soil growers on here have any advice to get a balance of saved expense and "water only" results? I'm familiar with Compost Teas and would be more than happy to brew up some large batches of teas with guanos etc once every couple weeks to keep the plants going. Just not sure if that is even required at this point.

Any pointers/tips would be great from soil growers, I have only grown in soil a couple times and about 90% of my experience is in Coco over the years.

Cheers. bongsmilie
 
Oh man screw all that expensive shit. Ill show you a recipe that will save you hundreds and grow some killer pot.

50% Miracle Grow Organic Raised Bed Soil
This stuff here is super cheap and its just as good as their expensive organic potting soil and I use it indoors!
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-22-06 Miracle-Gro 1.5-cu ft Fruit Flower and Vegetable Organic Rai...png

20% Mushroom Compost
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-24-04 Just Natural 0.75-cu ft Organic Compost in the Soil Amendmen...png

20% Cow Manure Compost
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-24-30 Black Kow 1 Cubic Foot Organic Compost and Manure Provides O...png

10% Perlite
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-47-43 Perlite.png

After that now is the amendments
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-24-48 Sta-Green 4-lb 100-sq ft 0.5-0 Organic Natural All-purpose F...png
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-25-25 Espoma Garden-tone 8-lb Organic Natural All-purpose Food in ...png
Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-25-36 Soil Doctor Pulverized Garden 40 Lb Organic Lime Lowes.com.png

Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-32-40 Amazon.com Azomite Raw Supply Organic Trace Mineral Powder 4...png


Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-33-32 Equate Epsom Salt Magnesium Sulfate 128oz (8lb) Scent Free -...png

Screenshot 2023-09-05 at 07-36-45 QUIKRETE 0.5-cu ft 50-lb Play Sand in the Concrete Aggregate...png



This is how I do it. Ill do the math and mix around the exact amount of soil by converting the gallons total to cubic feet etc. I lay out a large heavy duty tarp I find it easier to mix if its more spread out when adding things rather than in a large heaping pile. So you said you have 16 x 15 gallon pots. Thats around 200 Gallons give or take of actual soil mix you'll be using since you're not filling up the pots to the very top. Thats roughly 25-30 cubic feet. So to make it easier lets say you need total 30 cubic feet.

You'll need:
10 bags of MG Raised Bed soil which is 15 CF $100

8 bags of mushroom compost $40

6 bags cow manure $40

3 to 4 Cubic feet of Perlite $50

After you've dumped all that onto the tarp now start putting in the amendments

16lbs worm castings 4 bags $30

Powdered Dolomite Lime ( dont use hydrated or fast acting you'll burn them) Ill use about 3 cups per 15 gallon pot one bag is enough for a few grows $5

Azomite 3 cups per 15 gallon pot one bag will be good for multiple grows. $50

Epsom salt about a cup per pot for now and more later in the grow if needed so 16 cups total. $10

I dont have a pic up there but you can also add gypsum for sulfur/calcium and soil conditioning. 1/2 cup per pot should be plenty 1 bag $6

3 to 4 bags of garden tone fertilize $60 Dont Add this to the mix yet

6 Bags of sand $30 Dont add to the mix

Now comes the important part. After you've dumped all that out onto a tarp) mix the shit out of it. I mix for ten minutes. Get in there up to your shoulder and mix it very well. Every now and then take the sides of the tarp and pick it up and recenter the pile.

Lay out your pots. Now fill the pots about 1/2 way, take 2 cups of garden tone and mix it into that half of the soil in each pot. Then add the other half amount of soil and put 1 cup of garden tone and mix it only into that half of soil. Try not to mix the first half and the second half of soil together. I do it this way so when the plant get bigger the roots will fill the bottom section and require more food. Its worked well for me this way. I like to water mine a little after all that and let them cook or just sit in the garage for a week or two. Ive also planted directly into it. I wouldn't plant seedlings into this but a transplant thats 3-4 weeks or so old will love it.

Don't forget the sand on top. I like to use DE under the sand so if anything tries to get out also gets shredded. 1.5-2" inches of sand on top will prevent lots of potential problems. I swear by it. Simple play sand is perfect!

Depending on how long you veg or how long your flowering is you probably will have to add towards the end. Using teas throughout or even fish emulsion is awesome. Not too much, but you'll be able to tell if they need more or less. You could just water this and they would make it just fine but if you want to push them a little then teas and fish is awesome.

Hope that helps man, this is what I use and have been using for a while. No need to spend ridiculous money on soil. If you dont use synthetics you can just re-amend the soil and use it again.

Thats a total of $420 for all of this. You will then have a base that you can reamend that will cost you less than $100 bucks a run after that. Also when you re-amend the dead roots from the plants add nice time released nutrients to the soil as the break down.
 
Wow that post took me 30 minutes haha :bigjoint:

Also if you dont plan on reusing the soil then get the bags of soil and amendments you need now for the winter.

I appreciate all that info, I really dont have time to do all the sourcing/mixing so was looking more for a bagged soil that I could maybe amend during flower, keeping it easier and more consistent.

Fox Farms Happy Frog Ingredients: Composted forest humus, sphagnum peat moss, perlite, earthworm castings, bat guano, humic acid (derived from Leonardite), oyster shell and dolomite lime (for pH adjustment).

Happy Frog I can get for $14 OTD per 2 cu/ft. I'm okay paying a premium if they mix it for me and all I gotta do is pour it into the containers and water it. I have 20 gallon pots as well that I can use, those are more suitable for 2 cu/ft than the 15 gal. With 15 gal pots it takes around 1.75 cu/ft to fill to the top leaving a half inch or so..

I use RO water so I'm always adding epsom salts at least once weekly @ 1g/gal in bloom. I think with the Happy Frog I could use some type of liquid guano or fish hydrolysate to carry them through bloom?

p.s My average veg time from clone is 6 weeks (2 weeks as a clone then transplanted for 4 weeks into the final container 15-20 gal).
 
What's the "hit a burnout", just tired of daily feeding?

Why not rig a drip system?

I am doing a drip watering system even if I go to soil, I am just tired of mixing reservoirs every day and don't want to fork the cash out for dosers. I just setup an entire grow barn with Netafim drippers, it was easy as can be.

I'm trying to reverse spend at this point, not trying to invest more money into growing. My grow is well established, at most I will add a couple more lights in flower for faster perpetual turnover.

I have 3 rooms, Clone, Veg and Flower, CLONE has 2 lights, veg has 3 lights, flower has 6 lights. 12 plants in clone (best 6 clones go to bigger pots, the other 6 get tossed or used for clones), 6 plants in veg, 12 plants in flower at all times.

Watering clones, veg and flower is a daily thing, I went through a 50 pound bucket of MaxiBloom and 5 gallons of CYCO GROWA&B already this year. I would so rather just have drippers water my soil and just let nature do its thing.

I'm a micro-grow definitely not high scale but I'm also not a tent grower or bedroom grower. If I was I wouldn't be as bothered cause a 50 gallon barrel of solution would probably last a week, in my case I sometimes go through 50 gallons daily. Scooping heaps of maxibloom into 50 gallon drums repeatedly has gotten old.
 
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I appreciate all that info, I really dont have time to do all the sourcing/mixing so was looking more for a bagged soil that I could maybe amend during flower, keeping it easier and more consistent.

Fox Farms Happy Frog Ingredients: Composted forest humus, sphagnum peat moss, perlite, earthworm castings, bat guano, humic acid (derived from Leonardite), oyster shell and dolomite lime (for pH adjustment).

Happy Frog I can get for $14 OTD per 2 cu/ft. I'm okay paying a premium if they mix it for me and all I gotta do is pour it into the containers and water it. I have 20 gallon pots as well that I can use, those are more suitable for 2 cu/ft than the 15 gal. With 15 gal pots it takes around 1.75 cu/ft to fill to the top leaving a half inch or so..

I use RO water so I'm always adding epsom salts at least once weekly @ 1g/gal in bloom. I think with the Happy Frog I could use some type of liquid guano or fish hydrolysate to carry them through bloom?

p.s My average veg time from clone is 6 weeks (2 weeks as a clone then transplanted for 4 weeks into the final container 15-20 gal).
You could just use the miracle grow soil/ perlite/ garden tone and dolomite lime and you could do some damage with just that.
 
Also for water only you need to do it right, you cant cut corners

If you do organic ferts regularly feeding then you dont really need that much of a complex soil. You could literally use just the Miracle Grow Organic soil perlite and lime.

If you synthetic and organic nutes in soil then you could literally use anything and add perlite to it.
I cant justify spending 4-6 times the amount of money on Foxfarms or 707, I mean you're just paying for them to mix your soil. Id rather do the work and save the money. If you got money to burn fuck it Id use 707 and amend that and you're golden throughout.
 
Also for water only you need to do it right, you cant cut corners

If you do organic ferts regularly feeding then you dont really need that much of a complex soil. You could literally use just the Miracle Grow Organic soil perlite and lime.

If you synthetic and organic nutes in soil then you could literally use anything and add perlite to it.
I cant justify spending 4-6 times the amount of money on Foxfarms or 707, I mean you're just paying for them to mix your soil. Id rather do the work and save the money. If you got money to burn fuck it Id use 707 and amend that and you're golden throughout.

If I don't have 707 near me couldn't I just use Happy Frog and espoma garden tone? From my understanding you'd apply the garden tone in early and mid flower as a top dressing and water it in? I want to completely get away from buying chemical fertilizer and go to water-only soil. I'm not opposed to top dressing of course, but I don't want to mix nutrients daily or even weekly at this point. Also it seems like here Happy Frog is extremely available, any time I go and my preferred coco is out of stock at my shops they always have Happy Frog. I see a lot of growers buy it there too and it's pretty much a cannabis grow shop.
 
I actually just switched to that Espoma brand for my outdoor flowers and veggies. Good stuff, cheap too, and plants seem to really like it. I seem to be using it more often, like every 2-3 weeks instead of every 4, but it hasn't been a problem or a noticeable cost hindrance
 
I actually just switched to that Espoma brand for my outdoor flowers and veggies. Good stuff, cheap too, and plants seem to really like it. I seem to be using it more often, like every 2-3 weeks instead of every 4, but it hasn't been a problem or a noticeable cost hindrance

Right, I see its in stock at Home Depot, that's a huge win because I'm rural and even now drive a solid 30 minutes to the nearest grow shop for coco. So you just sprinkle it around the base of the plants and water it in? Any specific method of use? lol
 
Right, I see its in stock at Home Depot, that's a huge win because I'm rural and even now drive a solid 30 minutes to the nearest grow shop for coco. So you just sprinkle it around the base of the plants and water it in? Any specific method of use? lol
Yeah i just top dress, rake it in then water it in further.
 
If I don't have 707 near me couldn't I just use Happy Frog and espoma garden tone? From my understanding you'd apply the garden tone in early and mid flower as a top dressing and water it in? I want to completely get away from buying chemical fertilizer and go to water-only soil. I'm not opposed to top dressing of course, but I don't want to mix nutrients daily or even weekly at this point. Also it seems like here Happy Frog is extremely available, any time I go and my preferred coco is out of stock at my shops they always have Happy Frog. I see a lot of growers buy it there too and it's pretty much a cannabis grow shop.
Foxfarm is already amended but I honestly still would put a cup of garden tone in the bottom half of the soil, by the time the roots are developed enough down there it probably would be time to normally top dress. I dont like top dressing with that indoors cauise it smells nasty and it smells nasty for a while like weeks, like chicken shit and rotten animal. If you top dress then put another layer of soil on top of it to keep the smell down.

You still need sand on top man dont skip that or you'll definitely end up with gnats, even mites or a whole host of shit. The sand keeps all that down and stops it from escaping. Its such a cheap and easy preventative with zero side effects.
 
Foxfarm is already amended but I honestly still would put a cup of garden tone in the bottom half of the soil, by the time the roots are developed enough down there it probably would be time to normally top dress. I dont like top dressing with that indoors cauise it smells nasty and it smells nasty for a while like weeks, like chicken shit and rotten animal. If you top dress then put another layer of soil on top of it to keep the smell down.

You still need sand on top man dont skip that or you'll definitely end up with gnats, even mites or a whole host of shit. The sand keeps all that down and stops it from escaping. Its such a cheap and easy preventative with zero side effects.

Even better, I'll just do a couple inches of happy frog then mix a cup of the garden tone into it, fill the rest of the way. I've seen recipes where guys do strawberry fields on the bottom then happy frog on the top etc but I think that bio tone will have everything they need on top of the happy frog already having: earthworm castings, bat guano, humic acid (derived from Leonardite), oyster shell and dolomite lime

In your experience does the biotone have a risk of burning plants or is it pretty mild? If I remember, the plant only takes what it needs from organics? lol been a minute.
 
Even better, I'll just do a couple inches of happy frog then mix a cup of the garden tone into it, fill the rest of the way. I've seen recipes where guys do strawberry fields on the bottom then happy frog on the top etc but I think that bio tone will have everything they need on top of the happy frog already having: earthworm castings, bat guano, humic acid (derived from Leonardite), oyster shell and dolomite lime

In your experience does the biotone have a risk of burning plants or is it pretty mild? If I remember, the plant only takes what it needs from organics? lol been a minute.
ok man let us know how it goes.
 
Even better, I'll just do a couple inches of happy frog then mix a cup of the garden tone into it, fill the rest of the way. I've seen recipes where guys do strawberry fields on the bottom then happy frog on the top etc but I think that bio tone will have everything they need on top of the happy frog already having: earthworm castings, bat guano, humic acid (derived from Leonardite), oyster shell and dolomite lime

In your experience does the biotone have a risk of burning plants or is it pretty mild? If I remember, the plant only takes what it needs from organics? lol been a minute.
Oh it definitely can burn
 
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