Well I'm using Sure to Grow media as of now and so far its meh. The only thing I really want to add is I'm only talking DWC.
I do like the the starter cubes for germination but haven't gotten to use the clipper cloners yet. I have successfully started 3 plants from seed with the starter cubes. I think it would be better to go straight from either this or the clipper cloners straight to a different medium besides one of their inserts. I will get more into this later.
As for the inserts I've used the ones for the Arroyo and Tempest with mixed results. These seem to retain much more water than the starter cubers. Not that the starter cube doesn't retain a lot of water because it does but due to to its size it dries out much quicker. The problem I find with the inserts are they retain too much water when exposed to directly to it like if used in a dwc. With the starter cubes its easy because you can squeeze out the excess water before you begin and gently nurture it along till it germs and roots and since the starter cubes dry out so quickly its hard to over saturate but possible. The thing is once you've over saturated what can you do but maybe blow more air on it? The top portion wasn't the issue with me that stayed dried and I haven't experienced any problems like algae some others have on stop of the media. Don't really like the idea of exposing to more heat to help things along. Its not like you can exactly squeeze it out like in the beginning. But you can damp it off with something very absorbent like toilet paper but I don't see that as practically.
I do believe tho it is possible to use the inserts in an appication like DWC. But it will require a little extra monitoring so when the roots hit the water you can somehow remove the excess moisture from the lower portion of the inserts and lower the water level a couple of inches from the bottom of a netpot so the bottom of the inserts aren't constantly soaked. I noticed that even when I lowered my waterline the bottom of the inserts remained constantly soaked. Not just wet or damped but pretty much soaked. But I will admit my waterline was only about 1/2" to an 1" max from the bottom of the netpots after roots hit water. So if you can somehow keep the bottom part of the insert wet enough without getting too wet and lower your waterline enough it shouldn't be a problem.
I have since lowered my waterline apprx. 2" yet the sides and bottom still remain wet the bottom being I think significantly more wet than the sides. The sides aren't bad seems like condensation build up from inside the dwc or maybe splash from the bubbles from the air stone? Anywho the sides do not retain nearly as much water as the bottom which more certainly catches some bubbles popping moisture and probably the moisture running down the sides and sort of pooling at the bottom enough tho its out of the water.
This is where I think hydrostone is better because while it may get exposed to that same stuff it doesn't pool water like the inserts. But they are more labor intensive and sometimes messes with your ph unlike the sure to grow stuff. Its more durable since it can be used more than once unlike the sure to grow stuff but you have to end up replacing it too.
So that got me thinking why not use a different inert media similar to hydrostone but without some of the drawbacks. So why not use something like aquarium marbles or maybe even toy marbles. They are made of glass and seem to achieve most of the benefits of hydrostone except the water retention thing but really in DWC once the roots are in the water would it matter? The only real draw backs I can think of are either some sort of toxin being released from said marbles killing plants, but being used in aquariums seems like a safe bet to me, or the weight. I could see it adding up.
This too would solve the problem of the inserts staying too wet by not using them and using a combination of just the starter cubes with the marbles I mentioned. This would keep the media far enough away from the bottom of the netpots to keep it dry enough yet let the roots penetrate down. People are already doing similar thing with hydrostone.
Another issue I have with the product itself its the way its made. It looks pretty but if you look closely its very tightly woven. I even tried to slide an ice pick through and I ran into enough resistance to make me question it. I am not saying once things are going good and roots are through things won't be fine. It just seems to take longer for the roots to get through. I have thought of maybe poking/cutting holes into the inserts and have even removed some of the media from the bottom of insert via the square cutout experimenting in ways to help the roots get through easier. Maybe even pulling out media from out of the square cutout till it goes all the way through or just to the very bottom so there's less for the roots to struggle against.
I think the problem is that there is no air circulation in the inserts because most likely they are in their netpots. At least with hydrostone there are large enough air gaps to allow air to circulate. While the inserts are so closely woven, as mentioned earlier, there are only really pockets of stale air due to no air circulation below 1 inch of the inserts surface. I more air circulation within the media would help with these inserts even tho they are already 80% air by volume or something. Maybe pumping air into the insert with an aquarium air pump or something but that would require twice the number of air pumps with DWC or air pumps that have either dual outlets or multiple outlets but again is that practical? That's up to you. I'm also thinking maybe tearing the media up into smaller pieces and rolling them up into balls or something and using it like that maybe better. Sure to Grow has their own thing coming out called the "hail" I think they are small cubes of the stuff and it is suppose to address some of the things I brought up. But we'll see when it comes out.
I do have one great use for the inserts tho. I used the tempest, that's the 5" one, as a muffler to a 4" fan/carbon filter combo. I simply just shoved it in the exhaust side of the 4" flange and since its on the exhaust side no worries of it getting sucked up only blown out but mines holding well with the bottom side of the insert facing out and the square cutout side facing in. Not sure how it would work with a super high cfm fan or larger fans but seems to work great for me. I mean it really cuts down on the noise from the exhaust. My 4" fan is pushing/pulling 188cfm but the insert I put in doesn't seem to be making the fan bog. I'm sure its adding some resistance but its not significant to me but the noise is reduce a lot. I want to add a warning. This is only for an odor scrubber. There is no intense heat the insert is being exposed to. So wouldn't suggest it for muffling exhaust from cooling really hot lights. But who knows it might do just fine.
Anyways that's it I have rambled on enough. Please feel free to jump in and add anything you like. Time to go to bed.
I do like the the starter cubes for germination but haven't gotten to use the clipper cloners yet. I have successfully started 3 plants from seed with the starter cubes. I think it would be better to go straight from either this or the clipper cloners straight to a different medium besides one of their inserts. I will get more into this later.
As for the inserts I've used the ones for the Arroyo and Tempest with mixed results. These seem to retain much more water than the starter cubers. Not that the starter cube doesn't retain a lot of water because it does but due to to its size it dries out much quicker. The problem I find with the inserts are they retain too much water when exposed to directly to it like if used in a dwc. With the starter cubes its easy because you can squeeze out the excess water before you begin and gently nurture it along till it germs and roots and since the starter cubes dry out so quickly its hard to over saturate but possible. The thing is once you've over saturated what can you do but maybe blow more air on it? The top portion wasn't the issue with me that stayed dried and I haven't experienced any problems like algae some others have on stop of the media. Don't really like the idea of exposing to more heat to help things along. Its not like you can exactly squeeze it out like in the beginning. But you can damp it off with something very absorbent like toilet paper but I don't see that as practically.
I do believe tho it is possible to use the inserts in an appication like DWC. But it will require a little extra monitoring so when the roots hit the water you can somehow remove the excess moisture from the lower portion of the inserts and lower the water level a couple of inches from the bottom of a netpot so the bottom of the inserts aren't constantly soaked. I noticed that even when I lowered my waterline the bottom of the inserts remained constantly soaked. Not just wet or damped but pretty much soaked. But I will admit my waterline was only about 1/2" to an 1" max from the bottom of the netpots after roots hit water. So if you can somehow keep the bottom part of the insert wet enough without getting too wet and lower your waterline enough it shouldn't be a problem.
I have since lowered my waterline apprx. 2" yet the sides and bottom still remain wet the bottom being I think significantly more wet than the sides. The sides aren't bad seems like condensation build up from inside the dwc or maybe splash from the bubbles from the air stone? Anywho the sides do not retain nearly as much water as the bottom which more certainly catches some bubbles popping moisture and probably the moisture running down the sides and sort of pooling at the bottom enough tho its out of the water.
This is where I think hydrostone is better because while it may get exposed to that same stuff it doesn't pool water like the inserts. But they are more labor intensive and sometimes messes with your ph unlike the sure to grow stuff. Its more durable since it can be used more than once unlike the sure to grow stuff but you have to end up replacing it too.
So that got me thinking why not use a different inert media similar to hydrostone but without some of the drawbacks. So why not use something like aquarium marbles or maybe even toy marbles. They are made of glass and seem to achieve most of the benefits of hydrostone except the water retention thing but really in DWC once the roots are in the water would it matter? The only real draw backs I can think of are either some sort of toxin being released from said marbles killing plants, but being used in aquariums seems like a safe bet to me, or the weight. I could see it adding up.
This too would solve the problem of the inserts staying too wet by not using them and using a combination of just the starter cubes with the marbles I mentioned. This would keep the media far enough away from the bottom of the netpots to keep it dry enough yet let the roots penetrate down. People are already doing similar thing with hydrostone.
Another issue I have with the product itself its the way its made. It looks pretty but if you look closely its very tightly woven. I even tried to slide an ice pick through and I ran into enough resistance to make me question it. I am not saying once things are going good and roots are through things won't be fine. It just seems to take longer for the roots to get through. I have thought of maybe poking/cutting holes into the inserts and have even removed some of the media from the bottom of insert via the square cutout experimenting in ways to help the roots get through easier. Maybe even pulling out media from out of the square cutout till it goes all the way through or just to the very bottom so there's less for the roots to struggle against.
I think the problem is that there is no air circulation in the inserts because most likely they are in their netpots. At least with hydrostone there are large enough air gaps to allow air to circulate. While the inserts are so closely woven, as mentioned earlier, there are only really pockets of stale air due to no air circulation below 1 inch of the inserts surface. I more air circulation within the media would help with these inserts even tho they are already 80% air by volume or something. Maybe pumping air into the insert with an aquarium air pump or something but that would require twice the number of air pumps with DWC or air pumps that have either dual outlets or multiple outlets but again is that practical? That's up to you. I'm also thinking maybe tearing the media up into smaller pieces and rolling them up into balls or something and using it like that maybe better. Sure to Grow has their own thing coming out called the "hail" I think they are small cubes of the stuff and it is suppose to address some of the things I brought up. But we'll see when it comes out.
I do have one great use for the inserts tho. I used the tempest, that's the 5" one, as a muffler to a 4" fan/carbon filter combo. I simply just shoved it in the exhaust side of the 4" flange and since its on the exhaust side no worries of it getting sucked up only blown out but mines holding well with the bottom side of the insert facing out and the square cutout side facing in. Not sure how it would work with a super high cfm fan or larger fans but seems to work great for me. I mean it really cuts down on the noise from the exhaust. My 4" fan is pushing/pulling 188cfm but the insert I put in doesn't seem to be making the fan bog. I'm sure its adding some resistance but its not significant to me but the noise is reduce a lot. I want to add a warning. This is only for an odor scrubber. There is no intense heat the insert is being exposed to. So wouldn't suggest it for muffling exhaust from cooling really hot lights. But who knows it might do just fine.
Anyways that's it I have rambled on enough. Please feel free to jump in and add anything you like. Time to go to bed.
