success ratio gaba-drugs or opiates or opiods to mmj...

How many of you here have been able to successfully reduce and or quit altogether
with the use of mmj things such as Fentanyl bupe ,oxycodone,hydromorphone,percocet...or the more modern lyrica,gabapentin,cymbalta...baclofen nortriptyline etc
Why did you do it.?? How did you do it? were you successful ? How rough was your titration or withdrawals
What kind of time frame did it take you to switch over completely?
Tell me your story's...if you would like...
I'm just starting out and need to shed 8 or 9 more medications.

I wish there was info about this you could actually read.
The hardest part about doing this shit for treatment is there is NO One to ask.
you are your own scale on how well its going..

but I hope someone chimes in on how they were doing
I can say the oil helped my brother get off of Suboxone they gave him for opioid addiction.

I was on a minimum of 8-10perocet a day.
Plus muscle relaxers, anti inflammation meds, sleep meds and an anti depressants.
I cut out 2-3 percs per day for the first 3weeks to a month and only took the muscle relaxers when absolutely necessary.
The second month I cut back another 2 percs and no longer needed the sleep meds. Truthfully they weren't helping anyway.
By the third month I was only taking 2 or 3 percs a day but my mmj usage was filling the pain numbing void.
I went from 2gram a day average to 5-6
Everytime I got the urge to pop a pill I'd do a small bowl or roll a phatty.
Not the best method of using the mj for med but it helped kick the p monkey off my back.
I found gardening and keeping my mind busy also helped keep me out of the medicine closet.
Now I rarely use the percs and haven't filled the script in months and besides walking with an obvious hunched over limp I feel better then I have in years. Still can't lift anything heavier then my dick but it beats feeling like a drugged out zombie and that's where I was.

I know first hand that quitting anything is difficult and it takes patience and actual desire to quit. You can do it mr Dan and if u ever need to vent hit me up anytime

Thanks so much Torontoke...What I am finding.. is a lot of support here....
I too have been more and more replacing opiates with mmj....
The first one I quit was bupe...it just gave me head aches anyways... I did not find it very difficult to quit...since a lot of the formulations have
additives to prevent you getting any kind of buzz.
The second was fentanyl. Did my normal yearly taper which I had been doing for about 5 years and was on fentanyl for about 10...years..
This was a very effective drug for me...The tapers I did (my idea) were to prevent needing any increase above 50mcg, so each summer I would cut down my use to zero... no perc's ,no fentanyl and tough it out for 1 month. or so..
By the end of my clean month I would be in a pretty rough place, so it also served as a reminder. of what med free felt like....The other good thing about fentanyl is its easiest of the opioids on the heart.
Last summer after my clean month...all of a sudden with the inventing of the opioid /opiate crisis.. I could no longer go back on the fentanyl patch
because all of a sudden the patch ... was the devil and my gp would no longer prescribe it.

I would require a second opinion from a pain clinic...specialist before...I could go back on it.

So, in combo both doctors would be looking after my case and would require the second opinion to continue on with fentanyl.

They decided to try me on oxy neo instead...(which at one point my gp had said to me when she started me on the fentanyl years prior " I will never put you on oxycontin.." which I replied..."ok" at that time not even knowing what oxy contin or neo was.

Now they have continued with the oxy.neo ..even though its one of the hardest on the heart...Internalist was not too happy with this decision by gp
the max allowed for chronic non cancer pain according to the college...is 90 mg of morphine equivalent which converts to 60 mg of oxy....max
To be equal to the 50 mcg patch of fentanyl...it would require between 180mg and 220 mg of oxy....so with the max at 60mg ...I only get 40mg
because they said they need somewhere to move up to...should things worsen....
I in effect have about 20 percent of my former amount of pain medication....and they still ask me how I'm doing...???lol are u kidding
I asked them to take me off of the oxy after I get done with nortriptyline and lyrica.
Why take a totally inadequate amount of pain meds...when they def won't work...
The other thing Is Fentanyl be so strong....basically any other opiates you take will not work for you at least not very well....
Like getting 20 mins of relief with a slow release pill thats supposed to last 12 hours....ya right!

Fall of 2014 my osteoarthritis had become intolerable.

The pain in my hips and knees prevented me from sitting at my desk for an 8 hour shift, it prevented me from walking my dog and it prevented me from spending 'quality time' with Mrs. Rusher. At that time I was on oxy, along with every anti-inflammatory known to man, and had been for about 6 months. A fucking zombie of a person, spending 2 hours at work per day just to keep my job, and burning HUNDREDS of banked hours and vacation time to spend the rest of the day at home in bed. This went on for months. On a particularly good day, my wife suggested we visit some friends and get out of the house. I didn't want to, of course. I was having a good day, and didn't want to push it. She insisted, which she usually doesn't, so I capitulated.

We went to play some dice, and our friend pulls out a nice sized phatty and asks if I want to puff. Now I had done more than my share of indulging in high school and college, but once I joined the workforce for real, I left it behind. Once a month, or a few times a year, it became a rare treat. We smoked. We laughed. I laughed out loud for the first time in years. We played dice. I looked over at my wife, and saw she was holding back tears, and getting very emotional.

I asked what was wrong, and she pointed out that I had been sitting, comfortably, for over 3 hours, and there was no sign of pain in my face. I was shocked; I did the standard 'self-diagnostic routine' I had gotten used to through the last 4 years since the arthritis really started kicking up, and sure enough, I was feeling good. Not pain free, but not IN PAIN. People who have chronic pain will get this.

The very next day, I went to my doctor and requested a script for MMJ. He agreed immediately, my doctor of the last 7 years. I went out and bought a 1/2 oz to cover me off while waiting for my LP weed. During that time, I started detoxing. I went through headaches, nausea and vomiting, sleeplessness and being a fucking moody bitch. If not for the street meds to calm me down, I'm fairly certain I would have simply continued the oxy.

Then I came here, and made a COMPLETE ass of myself by glorifying LP weed. I was just so excited for the relief, finally. A few members here urged me (some not so gently) that LP weed wasn't what I thought it was, and suggested I use the LP bag for filling up with 'street meds' in order to protect myself from the cops when in public. I did, and then, in Apr of 2016, I started growing my own.

I'm back to full time days at my desk, and there is some discomfort, but I'm not a mindless zombie fuck lying in bed. My work life is better, my dog is happy for the walkies again, and Mrs. Rusher gets all the attention she needs.

I had never planned to tell this story in a forum like this, so thank you @cannadan and others, I think I really needed to tell it, even if I didn't know it.

Cannabis is medicine. Anyone who thinks otherwise is getting paid not to, or is morally impaired, in my opinion.

Thanks for your story rusher....these really help...
and your dog reminds me a lot of the guy you see in my avitar...cool dog that emma....
i'm sure my sebastian would like her.....(un neutered male...lol)

Well so far this week its been nightly cold sweats....from the 50 percent reduction of the nortriptyline and some remnant baclofen from last week...
and the cold /hot/cold/hot sweat sweat sweat ..is such a classic withdrawal symptom...and it sucks...taking a towel to bed to dry your face and hair thru the night...
also the muscle cramps that the dehydration creates on top of my normal nightly cramping
(lactic acid build up..)
Back to the pain clinic next week...
most likely a further reduction of nortriptyline to zero over the next week to 10 days...
followed by a first step reduction of lyrica probably drop 50 to 100 mg each 2 week period
over a month and in 2 months ready to step off...
for comfort reasons I can see us sticking to one or two meds at a time...for reductions...
I have tried cold turkey on 3 meds at once a couple of years ago....just to see.. how dependent
I had become....and I will admit it was pretty rough...

cannadan said:

Well so far this week its been nightly cold sweats....from the 50 percent reduction of the nortriptyline and some remnant baclofen from last week...
and the cold /hot/cold/hot sweat sweat sweat ..is such a classic withdrawal symptom...and it sucks...taking a towel to bed to dry your face and hair thru the night...
also the muscle cramps that the dehydration creates on top of my normal nightly cramping
(lactic acid build up..)
Back to the pain clinic next week...
most likely a further reduction of nortriptyline to zero over the next week to 10 days...
followed by a first step reduction of lyrica probably drop 50 to 100 mg each 2 week period
over a month and in 2 months ready to step off...
for comfort reasons I can see us sticking to one or two meds at a time...for reductions...
I have tried cold turkey on 3 meds at once a couple of years ago....just to see.. how dependent
I had become....and I will admit it was pretty rough...

Click to expand...

Hang in there man, it's a tough road, but you're tougher. You made a good start. Brew some chamomile tea with honey and vape some of those sweet buds you posted.

You got this.

Thanks rusher....appreciate the positive comments... and I think I got this too...
been a long road and I have been medically dependent on some of these substances.... for quite some time.......
leading to despair ...depression and basic lack of effectiveness of these drugs to continually work.
Pain medications... in adequate qty's... can and will allow those physically challenged ,to lead a somewhat normal life.
however there is always a downside or flip-side depending on your way of looking at things.
Generally to dull your pain enough to be comfortable,also dulls your other sensory abilities as well...and can turn you into what a lot of people describe as a zombie...I don't find myself a zombie however, but rather find it's just considerably more difficult to take an interest in anything or partake in meaningful conversation,or to want to be out in public... so effectively and in reality creates an atmosphere of isolation...(except with computer outreach)

I can definitely tell when the drugs wear off...because normal brain reward mech (dopamine) is pretty much non existant at this point...
there is zero joy... usually for quite some time after quitting....although there are ways for you to naturally increase these dopamine levels...
It just takes plenty of time for these things to heal and revert back to normal or new normal.... levels...
Most of the non "opioid/ate" drugs for pain work on or target the gaba receptors....so generally the same as above ..will take time to heal...
and you will find, upon stopping ,weird nervous system reactions and changes like brain zaps... or palm shocks,etc
So after many years of use... I'm am and am not... looking forward to this culling of my medication bag....but its back to being out of control again...
with currently over 20 prescriptions running....
I will be completely satisfied to get that number below say 10...I am also realistic and know certain medications I am stuck with for life...
like insulin...and heart meds....thyroid meds...
with only 1 med gone so far...and 1 reduced....I am starting to be able to think a little more clearly...already...so this is good...

I was on pregablin, gabapentin, percs, t3's, and benzo's at various times and dosages. Pregablin and gabapentin were terrible and messed my vision up really badly without actually helping me, percs and t3's I do not like mostly because opiates make me feel that I need them. I liked the benzo's because they work very well for my anxiety (lorazepam being the one that works best) but dr's are super hesitant to prescribe for any length of time because of addiction (but they prescribe opiates like they are candy). A friend pointed me towards cannabis and I am now pill free, I feel better overall although pain still exists and mental health issues are still their to an extent (although far less than they were) and I have no urge to go back on any of it other than maybe the lorazepam just because it made me feel human in situations where I generally end up disassociating due to anxiety.

they had me on 12 percocets a day and that was a horrible life if you could call it a life at all. I got to a point where I just took all that was left in the bottle about twenty of them or so I did not count them I just wanted it to end. well my wife called for help and the cops showed up first and he did not even wait for the ambulance I was told he just poured me into the back of his car and headed towards where the ambulance was coming from. well from that day on I have had nothing but pot and am doing wonderful yes the pain is still there but it is tolerable most of the time. I have been big pharma free for 12 years now and will never go back to their poison. the withdrawal was rough for about a month I basically stayed in bed feeling like crap but that ended and I am a useful person again stick with it Cannadan it is worth the fight.

Sending my support cannadan.

I slept many a night on my wife's legs so she could sleep while she was detoxing. It does get better!

I was high when I posted earlier and forgot to answer some of your questions, sorry about that.

Coming off of cymbalta when I was on it was rough, I felt sketched out for a few weeks (nothing like coming off of benzo's or opiates though). Coming off of lyrica and gabapentin honestly was not too bad, I had some weird fluid retention side effect and woke up with a balloon for a foot a couple days after I stopped one of them (honestly can not remember which of the 2 it was). Coming off of percs was difficult the first time when I was at 9-12 a day, I was cut off instantly and went through withdrawls that felt like my nerve endings were on fire, I could not stop sweating and I could not get comfortable enough to just sleep through it. I am glad you are not coming off of xannies, by far the worst physical and mental withdrawl I have been through.. It was a lot like coming off opiates with the added bonus of body wide muscle spasms and constant thoughts of suicide just to make it stop. My longest withdrawl was benzo's, it took weeks to feel semi normal again, the rest of them took a week tops for me.

Coming off of pharmaceuticals sucks, it is a rough period of time that can be days to a couple of weeks depending how unlucky you are and how long you have been dependent on those pills (even if you do not believe you are your body may believe otherwise) and there is almost nothing that will make that time easier. I can tell you that it was worth every second of the withdrawl symptoms though, I am happier now than I have been in a long time (even with my issues) and my relationship with my wife has never been better and I fully believe that is because I am not longer on all of that garbage.

I've been opiate free since Jan/05. Was a 6 year Dr. induced junkie...fentanyl patch, 200 oxy's month, was not pretty. I've smoked MJ all of my adult life, but when I started daily use, it quickly became clear that MJ was more beneficial for my pain control and my body than the PharmaCon that was slowly killing me. Withdrawal sucked big time...but MJ saved my life.

I'm still in constant pain, but MJ puts me in a better frame of mind that allows me to deal with it on different level than PharmaCon. I've come to terms that the pain will be with me for the rest of my life, but so will sweet Mary Jane to help me cope.

Your story mirrors my story, Dman. Same basic timeline as well. I started to get occasional scripts in 1998 for herniated discs in my neck and compressed "L" discs from a back injury. At the time I wasn't experiencing chronic pain but my pain episodes were getting closer and closer together. As time went on the pain increased in frequency. I spent far too many days waiting for Dr's appointments, getting injections, and filling scripts. I eventually hit a place where my only options were to have my back fused...which I was told was a 50/50 shot at getting better...but no guarantees.....or go into Pain management...so I opted for the Pain Management gig.

Like you...I was fully addicted/strung out for 7 years or so on all of the name brand pills and anything else i could get my hands on.
My doc was a total ass. He was cool with writing me scripts for a few hundred oxy pills a month but when I wanted off the train and mentioned MMJ use/etc....he freaked out and started blabbering about losing his license...and basically cut me off from all narcos/care on the spot. It wasn't how I thought I'd kick...but I wanted to end the madness....so I ended up weaning down until I felt sick, and then I dumped the rest of my pills in the shitter and held on for dear life. It took me a week to see the SUN..... but fuckin A did it ever shine down. I won't lie. I thought I was gonna die. I also thought about killing my doctor but I couldn't get my head out of the crapper long enough...much less get up off the floor to go do it. LOL.

In a nutshell and laying it out honestly....my pain....though still constant....is far less now than when I made it up in my head all day long because the poison I was addicted to was ruling me like a puppet. Scary times for sure.

much respect to all who have or will fight the fight....

just so everyone knows...
I have known of treatments where five year old kids take up to 6 grams or 6000 mgs a day of oil.
at pennies per gram grown yourself..theres no reason why you cant ingest many grams a day many different ways..

just so everyone knows,,, they can keep going once on a gram a day..its easier going up from there.
Find your spot and a strain that works well for you..EVERYONE is different

Thanks for all the stories guys...this stuff really helps....I have only been pain killer free for 1 month a year for the past 4 or 5 years...and it was by choice...but by the time that month was up ...my pain levels would shoot way up again....and so I would start again....taper back up until I could function
somewhat normally...
I'm not exactly sure...what will come of all these pain clinic visits but I def done with injections and epidurals....
from what I gather clinics seem to be trying to move most of the opioid dependent patients to hydro morph or oxymorph and away from oxy and fentanyl...
though I'm not sure what the thinking is on that one....since its still opiates
I think I will bring the wife with me on the next visit....I have been having a hard time thinking straight,,,since being on nortriplyline lyrica and baclofen...
which was never a problem on just opiates...and mmj... at least a second pair of ears won't hurt...

It took me a while to figure out what I really want to say, so here it is, pull up a chair.
I am so happy I was a stick in the mud on prescriptions. I started with baclofen as required when I was diagnosed with cervical stenosis (vertebrae in neck pushing on spinal cord). My early symptoms were severe numbness and tingling which eventually lead to the left arm dropping like a limp rag. Most often happened in the shower, which makes things quite interesting. She tried me on pregabalin and gabapentin, both had nasty side effects. Then lyrica, which I had to wean off after reaching 600mg/day, at which point the nasty side effects started..Eventually the neurologist sent me for an MRI since my condition was getting worse.

I continually asked for an appointment with the surgeon, but she said it was not severe enough ... yet. Seems like I needed to be in a wheelchair. I also asked if she thought chiro would help, fully knowing it would but wanted her input. Bad idea she said, could make things much worse. So does doing nothing in my opinion. Well the MRI's showed lesions in my brain and spinal cord, so she referred me to the MS clinic.
Long story that one but eventually I was diagnosed as RRMS. They sure pushed the big pharma, but I declined and in the end I let them up my baclofen to 4 a day when the muscle spasms and clenching became more that I could handle. I only took 3 a day unless I was golfing, and never more than one every four hours. I quit cold turkey a few weeks ago and have no regrets. But what about the clenching? I will get to that.

Next was percocet. I lifted something way to heavy a little over a year ago. This put me in agonizing pain in the thoracic region and I finally relented and took one of my wife's percocet. It helped and I took one again the next day just so I could have a shower. That is when I noticed that taking percocet seemed to curb my fatigue for 3-4 hours. My family doctor said it was easier to manage pain than to chase it. No shit Sherlock, why else do you think I smoke 3-5 grams a day. I do not even get high until the pain level gets down to a dull roar. So eventually that script became 4 per day, but again I only took 3 spaced out except on golf days I would take a 4th one. I quit that one cold turkey at the same time. What about the pain?

Then there was modafinil for a short time (2-3 weeks) a few times but it was expensive and underwhelming. I can see how it would help narcolepsy, or even parkinson's, but not MS so much. Cold turkey on that one both times.

So where did all the symptoms and pain go? They went into the chiropractors table and never came out right away. I have had 4 or 5 periods of time in my life where my body got messed up and the only thing that eventually sorted it out was chiro. Now I realize many peeps hear horror stories about what could go wrong, but I focus on what is going right. Think of what could go wrong every time you get in an automobile. All I know for sure is that chiro aligns my body and makes life much better.

Take the test that convinced me the most. Go grab a level that is at least 18" long. Go stand in front of a mirror. Close your eyes and relax. Hold the level up at shoulder height, open your eyes and make the level line up with your shoulders and level it. Look at your shoulders. Mine right shoulder was a good 1-2 inches lower that my left. It only took two adjustments to get me shoulders on a level plane.

So because I was so stubborn, my ride home from the big pharma party was short and sweet with only short withdrawals. I smoked more hash to compensate and it seemed to help. Now I really have a stubborn on and I want to fire my doctor and tell the MS clinic to take a hike.

Ive heard from a lot of people that kratom is good for kicking opiods.

wow zoic....you got writing stamina.. lol
I think whats probably next for me is another mri...on my melon this time..though.....
I have 3 of my neck and couple others of my spine..
I have tried physio and chiro...Physio and having traction worked wonders on my neck...and I could not say enough about it at first...but after a while that would only provide relief during a flare up...
when I went back the last time they had sold the machine...and I was like WHAT!!!! so I rigged up my own at home...
and when I'm really bad.... I can pull the vertebrae apart enough to take the pressure off..and get a few minutes of relief.
but that had limited uses...
The biggest reason that I have not had any solid diagnostic success is that I have many physical injuries from car accidents to
work accidents to play accidents and its easiest for the doctors to pin most of my symptoms on these injuries and or the old stand by
Diabetes....But then lots of other flare ups and side effects started to occur... things that would be indicative of fibro or MS and a host of other
less known diseases...It really came to a head about 3 years ago...when just going out into the cold air in winter,would send me into a tail spin...
in only about 1 or 2 mins. I would literally be dropped to my knees in tears.... from the pain...even with the best of winter clothes and I was an avid, I mean really avid Ice fisherman ,and even the smallest amount of exposed skin would take me completely out.
So going out side to carry an arm load of firewood in would usually end my day...and I would require a nap or sleep from the exhaustion of dealing with a pain of that intensity...
I have to admit my GP has really tried her best...covering most of her bases and trying to keep me comfortable(somewhat), while we have been looking into it....but after 3 1/2 year solid try and 3 neurologists ,a new endocrinologist a pain specialist and another surgeon later...
we are really not much closer than we were before...at a conclusive result.
One neuro..says he thinks its diabetic neuropathy, the other two said with out a doubt its not just diabetic neuropathy,and have never seen the likes of my leg twitching. This was also confirmed by a restless leg specialist.
One thing I do know is,my father lost all feeling.in his legs at 64.. in at first his feet but within 10 years it had taken over his entire legs,,,right up to the hip,which still has not stopped him...he uses a walker now but can't feel anything...
They never did find a reason for his legs being that way....
So ,as you can imagine... my dad and I ...we both wonder if its something maybe simple or rare that just got missed...
Tomorrow is another pain clinic appointment...so I am armed with the wife and a bunch of questions...that should pretty much fill up the appointment...
lol
thanks again Zoic and CalyxCrusher
I have been using kratom on the rare occassion and originally bought like 16 different variety's they do have a little bit of potential....but very very mild
when coming off of fentanyl...
fentanyl will kill your tolerance level , to any other opiates...that's 100 percent for sure...