soil or hydro?

i have some questions for anybody that may have an answer... i am new to growing but i have done quite a bit of homework and i understand that i want to do a sea of green style system, but i am toiling over a soil system or hydro. one question is how much slower/how much less yield is soil growing than compared to hydro? i suppose the reason i ask this is because i am leaning toward soil, based solely on the fact that i can not seem to find a detailed hydro system instructions. i have read and re-read Al B. Fuct's post on his harvest every 2 weeks, which is what i want. he explains that he gets 13-16 oz of cured bud per harvest off of 16 plants harvested but it explains little about his hydro set up. It says that its a flood and drain table. I would like to do this, yet if it is possible to get a perpetual (every 2 weeks) harvest yielding no less than 8 oz per crop harvested, i would have no reason to change from soil. i have the space to keep about 8-12 or so mothers, and to have 80 plants budding; 20 per two week cycle. really i want someone to tell me the truth and say "sure you can get a pound of bud grown off 20 plats every 2 weeks SOG style." Haha that may not be the case but i would like to harvest 20 plants every 2 weeks and yield 1-2 pounds/ month. i just want someone to tell me (truthfully) if i can do it in soil, or if i must switch to hydro. but if you are gonna tell me to switch to hydro tell me how to set it up please!

I thought it would be appropriate to bring this over here...

And to answer your question... if you do what he does you will get what he gets...

I am getting 1/2 to 3/4 oz per lollipop...



This .GIF shows a pretty good animation...



And here is a good way to get started with it..

Hope this helps...

From the pages of the... GrowFAQ

How do I make an ebb & flow

How do I make an ebb & flow
hydroponic system?





The goal: To demonstrate the construction of an Ebb & Flow hydroponic system.

The system being constructed is small, however the design is the same as larger systems.




Parts list...

• Restaurant bus tub, 15 1/2" x 20 1/2" x 4 1/2", flood tray.
• Restaurant bus tub, 15 1/2" x 20 1/2" x 7", reservoir.
• Reservoir lid, 15 3/4" x 22".
• Overflow fitting.
• Fill/drain fitting.
• Water pump, 70 gph.
• Tubing, 1/2" ID.
• Aquarium air pump.
• Air stones.
• Green air line.
  
  Notice, in the pictures above, the one inch holes, in the flood tray for the overflow, and fill/drain fittings, also, the two inch holes in the lid, for the fittings to pass through.
  
  
  

  
  
  A view of the plumbed flood tray with lid. See how it fits over the fittings.​
  
  

  
  
  This is a view of the reservoir with lid, and plumbed flood tray.
  
  

  
  
  Here, it's all assembled. The water and air pumps are not shown. The power cord, and air lines fit between, the reservoir and lid. A small notch may need to be added, to avoid pinching the air lines, and to help the flood tray sit level.
  
  
  

  
  
  Assembled with six 5 1/2" square pots. Notice the easy access to both fittings. The fill/drain fitting has a connector for a 1/2" hose, under the screen. Remove the screen, connect the hose, turn the pump on, and pump out the nutrient solution. Makes reservoir change outs very easy.
  
  
  

  
  
  Another view of the system.
  
  

  
  
  Note: Choosing a container...
  
  Not all containers are made equal. Some are very sturdy, while others are not. Using a weak container will only lead to failure and a flood. Choose heavy duty containers. Also, some containers will need a center support to keep them level under the weight of the nutrient solution.
  
  Note: About sizes...
  
  The reservoir should be large enough, to hold two, to three times the volume of the flood tray or table. The pump should be sized to flood the tray in 5 min. or less.

thanks for the illustration. your depiction of how to set up the ebb/flow system was better by far than anything else ive seen.. but in addition, judging by your experience what is the yield/grow time differences between soil and hydro?

IVotedForChange said:

thanks for the illustration. your depiction of how to set up the ebb/flow system was better by far than anything else ive seen..

Click to expand...

Thanks for the compliment, but ALL of that info came from searching the site...

There is a lot of really realy good info here, you just have to take the time to find it...

There are no new questions... they have all been asked and answered... right here in these forums...

Soooo, I cannot take credit for the illustrations... 100% rollitup there....

IVotedForChange said:

but in addition, judging by your experience what is the yield/grow time differences between soil and hydro?

Click to expand...

There are many more reasons to switch to hydro, other than bigger yields and flowering time...

Hydro is an exact science... and unless you have a lab at your disposal, soil is not...

It would not be fair for me to compare what you have asked because I have never done a side by side comparison...

My dirt plants have always been outside monsters... I have never used soil indoors...

I recommend ebb/flow because it is easy to set-up and maintain...

and because you will never ever have to chase a deficiency again...

hydro fertilizers are complete, and since there is very little in the water to begin with, you know exactly what your plants are getting...

It's like baking a cake... you do what that guy did, exactly, and you will get what he got...

and once you get pretty good at making pretty good cakes, you can start experimenting to see if you can improve the other person's recipe...

But you have to be able to duplicate their results first... then try to change it...

I don't know you, but if you are looking to have decent bud to smoke... I recommend HPS lighting and single cola lollipops on an ebb flow set up...

You can do it as big or as small as you like...

Which brings me to the next chapter...

What lights, ventilation and space do you have...

If you can put up with my grouchiness and lack of manners (pain does that to me, sorry), I'm willing to lend a brain cell or two to help you set it up as economical as possible (nothing worth it's weight is cheap anymore)...

Cheers...

Hydro is going to shave a week off harvest time. Get a decent bloom booster and it could be another week you don't need.

Thanks very much for the help gypsy. i have a 1000w hps balast on the way that i get tomorrow. that is what i am gonna start with until i can afford to get another 1000w and say a 4 or 6 hundred MH to keep the moms in veg. what i have right now is about 260 seedlings sprouted up a couple inches. I have all these under 6 80 watt (2 40w bulbs per fixture) fluoros for now, til tomorrow til i get the 1000w installed.plants are about 9-10 days old. my next move is to upgrade container size; as for now they are in small 9 oz cups that you get in wal mart. So when i get the HPS it is gonna stay on 24/7 for about another 6-7 wks then switch to 12-12, pull males, select mothers, and the rest for bud.

I live in a part of the country (US) where there are no liberalized pot laws, and good bud is hard to come by, and as for asking anyone for a clone, good luck. i offered this guy 125 bucks for a clone (it wasnt even green bud, just fluff seedless that he gets 80/quart for) just so i wouldnt have to wait for my seeds to get mature, and he acted like i was asking him to kill someone. so i guess what i am trying to get at is my method to obtaining seed was for about a year i selected seeds from the stoniest, meatiest commercial grade i could get my hands on. i put my seeds in 3 seperate containers, based on the quality of bud they came from. i had good, better, and best, and grouped them together as such under fluoros. and you can see that the "best" group is thriving(short and quite bushy), the "better" group is just a whisker behind the "best", and the "good" group doesnt look so great. they have sprouted but none-few of those distinguishable leaves. i just cant wait til i can get some mothers set aside and bloom out the rest. i am gonna go to wal mart or lowes today and see about some storage bins and water pumps and tubes and the like.

Very nice!

That is a shit load of seeds man...

I would still recommend SOG lollipops...

Every once in a while I flower straight from seed instead of cloning...

Same deal... terim the lower third and anything that grows more than one inch...

and you can use the side branches as clones to perpetuate that DNA, if it turns out to be the bomb...

Good luck and keep us posted...

there has been no other method ive considered than SOG lollipops. seems like you can really pack them together under HPS and get great results.

so let me see if i am reading you right... are you saying that after sexing and pulling males that, instead selecting mothers and setting them aside and letting them veg, that to keep them in flower mode and take their lower branches as clones and using them as mothers..?

Also, since my light is 1000w hps, should i periodically shift it over the crop for better coverage? before to much longer i'll get all the lights i need, just figured 1000 w hps is a good place to start.

IVotedForChange said:

there has been no other method ive considered than SOG lollipops. seems like you can really pack them together under HPS and get great results.

Click to expand...

Smart....

IVotedForChange said:

so let me see if i am reading you right... are you saying that after sexing and pulling males that, instead selecting mothers and setting them aside and letting them veg, that to keep them in flower mode and take their lower branches as clones and using them as mothers..?

Click to expand...

Well, what you should have gathered from what I proposed is that there are INFINITE ways to do things...

Yes you can do that... the plants will not start to flower until they are mature... you can clone the lower branches (leaving the plant ready for SOG lollipop) and when they show sex... kill the males...

Make moms from the clones you took and keep the original plants as SOG lollipops in flower...

That is the way I see to get to buds the quickest...

But, you can do it however you want...

IVotedForChange said:

Also, since my light is 1000w hps, should i periodically shift it over the crop for better coverage? before to much longer i'll get all the lights i need, just figured 1000 w hps is a good place to start.

Click to expand...

If you need to shift your light to get better/total coverage, then you are trying to light an area that is too big...

Al's trays are 3'x3' ans he uses 1x 1000 hps per 2 trays...

I run 3 trays and 3 600s.. soon to be 4 and 4...

I'm only a newbie but thought i'd post this for anyone who is interested. I not long ago watched this myself after being directed there.

If you go to youtube and type in mr green he has a really great 9 part tutorial on how to set up a grow room. It also illustrates how to build a ebb and flow system.

Peace

heres one for you gypsy now that i have my 12 day old seedlings in soil, how do i get them into a hydro system asap?

IVotedForChange said:

heres one for you gypsy now that i have my 12 day old seedlings in soil, how do i get them into a hydro system asap?

Click to expand...

Well...

You might kill them... you might stunt them... but one can try to be VERY GENTLE AND MORE DELICATE THAN EVER..

I would attempt to dump (did I say carefully?) the contents of your pot and sift through it until you have you plant...

Wash the roots very well (did I mention carefully?) so there is no dirt in them...

Fill a pot with hydroton and when you reached the proper amount, hold the seedling in place and pour more hydroton until only the green stem sticks out...

Make sure the roots is at or below flood level, or you will just kill it...

You are inviting a whole bunch of things into your res by having those plants in soil first...

Make sure you have a good and solid pathogen control plan (I like H2O2)...

Not he best way to do things, but one can get away with it in a pinch...

IVotedForChange said:

i want to do a sea of green style system, but i am toiling over a soil system or hydro.

? i suppose the reason i ask this is because i am leaning toward soil, based solely on the fact that i can not seem to find a detailed hydro system instructions.

Click to expand...

This is not about a hydro SOG grow but it will go into detail about hydro.

It has like 5 parts but you do not have to watch all of it to find out what you are looking for though to me it is fun to watch it all.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=how+to+grow+green+greenman&aq=f

one of these days i am gonna be just like you, helping out the green horn green thumbs. would it be less stressful if i let them get mature in the soil then just take cuttings and insert them directly into hydro system? would be just kinda like using the soil to get the plants up, then then as soon as i get the cuttings i want, (most go to flower, others become mothers) trash the soil plants? the reason why i ask is lets hypothetically say that i do everything that you said 100% perfect, will 100% plants survive? i just know once i start taking chances i will fuck up and my best female will die.

Man... nothing is for sure....

Chances are you will just stunt growth for a while...

In all honesty... if you let the grow and take cuttings from them, and put those cuttings in hydro, there will be less stress...

But it will also mean a lot of time...

For you to get the ball rolling as fast as possible.. I would...

Transplant (very carefully) from soil to hydro..

Take as many cuttings as you can from each plant... chuck the original transplants into flower...

Weed out the males.. kill the corresponding clones (which have been under 24/0 rooting and vegging to be moms)...

and go from there...

a little unorthodox... but it will work to get you buds with the least amount of non flowering delay...

There is an aerogarden video that shows in stop motion the differance between there areoponic system and soil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5NwRSr6Mc
Not sure how accurate that is though as it would be easy enough to screw with the ph or neuts in the dirt to slow it up. In my own experience the hydro gets the job done faster than the dirt but things can also turn to shit faster in the hydro if something goes wrong.

i think in al's "harvest every 2 weeks" he uses 5 1/2" pots. i havent seen those around.. so what is the volume i should use, like gallon or half gallon? im talking about for flowering here, not veg.

Im also having a hard time finding a hydro store where i live. bunch of crap.

IVotedForChange said:

i think in al's "harvest every 2 weeks" he uses 5 1/2" pots. i havent seen those around.. so what is the volume i should use, like gallon or half gallon? im talking about for flowering here, not veg.

Im also having a hard time finding a hydro store where i live. bunch of crap.

Click to expand...

I use 1 gallon pots...

Some people use the square pots...

Just make sure to stay away from netpots...

http://htgsupply.com/ has treated me right in the past...

well found a hydro store. found 2 actually.. so one gallon pots gets you a 3 ft. lollipop? gotcha w/ no netpots, dont use them cause of the roots, right? just use a 1 gallon pot that has a hole in the bottom to allow water to fill and drain?