So is vac purge pointless for Bho?

smokermore

smokermore

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon. I watched a video a few days ago about I think a dispensary owner talking briefly about how he makes his Bho. It looked like they blast about an oz or two of Bho per dish, and he said they basically whip all of it at about 100 degrees, and it never goes into a vac chamber... And their end product looks pretty good. Thick bright wax basically. Which is what I've always aimed for but never come close..
I think what I'm learning so far, is it takes time for the terps to separate, and agitation speeds the process.
This whole time I've always vac purged, and have made some pretty amazing shatter, but never a good looking wax... And I never agitate it during vac purge process, I just flip it however many times.
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
I still wouldn't trust it...

I've had strains turn to shatter right out of the extraction tube that looked clean but the second i throw it in the vac jar i start to see rainbow bubbles which isn't a "clean" product.

You need to vac purge that stuff..
 
smokermore

smokermore

Well-Known Member
Bublonichronic said:
You want wax? Just leave it in the vac n bump up the heat to 120ish depending on strain some might need more heat others less
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Seems like I've tried that and the outcome is even darker when raising up that high and keeping in for long periods. But I'm probably doing something wrong..
 
smokermore

smokermore

Well-Known Member
SPLFreak808 said:
I still wouldn't trust it...

I've had strains turn to shatter right out of the extraction tube that looked clean but the second i throw it in the vac jar i start to see rainbow bubbles which isn't a "clean" product.

You need to vac purge that stuff..
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That's what I thought.. This guy was a major stoner but sounded like he knew what he was talking about. And selling out of a dispensary.. Made me wonder if I'm even doing anything right.
 
smokermore

smokermore

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
We used to make Budder with whipping and no vacuum. When testing for residual solvent became mandatory for cup competitions, a number of them were rejected for that reason.
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So I wonder if the residual is enough to cause harm over time, or it just simply doesn't meet the cup standards?
Im thinking what I'll try next is vac purge as usual, and then whip. He made it sound like agitation is the key to speed up the process to seperating terps or something of that nature, you could tell he was trying to be all scientific..
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
smokermore said:
So I wonder if the residual is enough to cause harm over time, or it just simply doesn't meet the cup standards?
Im thinking what I'll try next is vac purge as usual, and then whip. He made it sound like agitation is the key to speed up the process to seperating terps or something of that nature, you could tell he was trying to be all scientific..
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The cup standards were 500 ppm at the time and FDA standards for a Class III solvent is 5000 ppm. It's common to set the control standard/reg limits at 10% of maximum, hence 500 ppm, but some locals use two orders of magnitude lower, or 50 ppm.

Starting with cotton candy, we can get below 500 ppm in about 4 hrs at 115F under -29.5" Hg, and below 50 ppm to ND in less than 8 hrs.

ND doesn't mean its all gone, just that the levels are below test cut off, typically around where we move from the parts per millionth scale (10-6) to the parts per billionth scale (10-9).

After 4 hours I personally can't taste the residual butane (~375 ppm), which had the mystery oil removed before hand by pre-distillation. Mystery oil has a far more pungent flavor than butane or propane.

The <50 ppm is less aromatic and tasty than the <500 ppm, so at some point it also becomes a matter of preference. Less butyl flavor, but also less monoterpene flavor.

From a FDA standpoint, butane is rated as GRAS, or generally regarded as safe, and is/was commonly used as a food propellant until it began to be abused by huffers.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title21-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title21-vol3-sec184-1165.pdf

All of that aside, butane adds a butyl flavor to the extract in any concentration, sort of like what the air out of an inner tube smells and tastes like. Human sensory threshold for hydrocarbon tastes are in the low part per million, so if residuals are very high, it will start to impact the flavor.

I've also had it cause serious wild itching in my nose on exhale, but those were untested fortutitious dabs from strangers/associates, so don't know how high they were.
 

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KLITE

KLITE

Well-Known Member
Starting with cotton candy, we can get below 500 ppm in about 4 hrs at 115F under -29.5" Hg, and below 50 ppm to ND in less than 8 hrs.
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I was also impressed to find the oil hardly darkened at all at those temperetarue when i gave it a go. Ill never again vacuum longr than 24 thats for sure!
 
smokermore

smokermore

Well-Known Member
Fadedawg said:
The cup standards were 500 ppm at the time and FDA standards for a Class III solvent is 5000 ppm. It's common to set the control standard/reg limits at 10% of maximum, hence 500 ppm, but some locals use two orders of magnitude lower, or 50 ppm.

Starting with cotton candy, we can get below 500 ppm in about 4 hrs at 115F under -29.5" Hg, and below 50 ppm to ND in less than 8 hrs.

ND doesn't mean its all gone, just that the levels are below test cut off, typically around where we move from the parts per millionth scale (10-6) to the parts per billionth scale (10-9).

After 4 hours I personally can't taste the residual butane (~375 ppm), which had the mystery oil removed before hand by pre-distillation. Mystery oil has a far more pungent flavor than butane or propane.

The <50 ppm is less aromatic and tasty than the <500 ppm, so at some point it also becomes a matter of preference. Less butyl flavor, but also less monoterpene flavor.

From a FDA standpoint, butane is rated as GRAS, or generally regarded as safe, and is/was commonly used as a food propellant until it began to be abused by huffers.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2012-title21-vol3/pdf/CFR-2012-title21-vol3-sec184-1165.pdf

All of that aside, butane adds a butyl flavor to the extract in any concentration, sort of like what the air out of an inner tube smells and tastes like. Human sensory threshold for hydrocarbon tastes are in the low part per million, so if residuals are very high, it will start to impact the flavor.

I've also had it cause serious wild itching in my nose on exhale, but those were untested fortutitious dabs from strangers/associates, so don't know how high they were.
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Man you sound like you got it going on pretty good. Thanks for all the info. Is mystery oil the cloudy stuff removed when winterizing?
I'll be doing another run tonight, hoping it goes well..
 
smokermore

smokermore

Well-Known Member
smokermore said:
Man you sound like you got it going on pretty good. Thanks for all the info. Is mystery oil the cloudy stuff removed when winterizing?
I'll be doing another run tonight, hoping it goes well..
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Well I can see that was a dumb question. Did a quick Google search on it, never heard of it before until now. The rock I've been living under the past 5 years is bigger than I thought haha..
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
smokermore said:
Man you sound like you got it going on pretty good. Thanks for all the info. Is mystery oil the cloudy stuff removed when winterizing?
I'll be doing another run tonight, hoping it goes well..
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No, winterizing doesn't remove mystery oil. We predistill our LPG before extracting, to remove it then.

The cloudy stuff is plant waxes, fats, and lipids.
 
KLITE

KLITE

Well-Known Member
I recently had a bit of an epiphany on a purge method:

Pull first vacuum at room temp or like 25C raise to 30 31 until it seems like bubble dont wanna break off any longer. When that happens take it out and with heating plate or those posh as fuck hair driers you can control the temp and raise the oils temp to like 45/50C and put it back in the oven at the low 30s. Let the fucker bubble up until it cools down to oven ambient temp and its getting hard for bubbles to break. Repeat process until its time to flip and do the same for the other side.

Im hoping that by giving the extract short periods of time of high temperature will increase the viscosity enough to hve it react like crazy again once back under vacuum but at a lower temp hence hopefully being able to keep more terpenes than if purging constantly at those higher temperatures and perhaps as quick or taking a couple of hours longer....

Do feel free to give your opinion please before i have a go at it please!
 
Fadedawg

Fadedawg

Well-Known Member
The proof of the pudding will be the end result How does it test out?.

I heat before pulling the vacuum, because there is no convection in a vacuum, and operate under the theory that I want to get the bubbles out in the shortest time possible, which is easiest when they can freely escape the surface tension.
 
D

darin richardson

New Member
Fadedawg said:
You evaporate away the visible pool of butane before placing in the vacuum chamber.
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bho is hard to get here I want to figure out how to make it for personal use but I want to do it rite I understand the extraction part but before I order a heat vac and vacuum pump I want to make sure its correct can you recommend a safe way to do this evaporate butane thank you for your help
 
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