Should I flush my plant? [PICS]

Fudgepackers

Fudgepackers

New Member
**TL;DR--PICS BELOW**

Hi guys. It's been just over 2 weeks so far into my first grow and I'm growing cheese. Super dense with fat leaves and growing fast but I am noticing some tip burn and what I believe to be a potassium lockout due to excess nitrogen (please correct me if I am wrong).

I made the mistake of using miracle gro 'pour and feed ready to use plant food' on my seedling while it was in the seed plug.
Luckily it didn't do much at the time since MG pour&feed is already a pre diluted mix which I diluted much further. However, as the plant started growing more I also mistook the new leaves which looked slightly pale for nitrogen deficiency and added more of the MG crap.
I already knew it was bad stuff as soon as I got it and regret using it. Got some fox farm grow ordered to use much later if I can fix the nutrient overload and wait until the plant is actually hungry this time.
Learned from my mistakes.

ACTUAL QUESTION IS HERE:
At this point, is it safe to flush the plant or will that damage it further? I do not want to run into the problem of overwatering and drowning the plant as it is still young.
If I am to flush, what is the safest method or will it be just fine and recover after some time without any extra watering?
Thanks.


As you will see in the pics, the oldest leaves at the very bottom look pretty rough and are showing signs of a potassium deficiency but are also dark in color which suggests that it is getting too much nitrogen and is unable to get enough potassium because of this. Also there are like 2 leaves higher up that are showing tip burn.
Apart from this, the plant is continuing to grow quickly and is sprouting lots of new leaves.

I am using biobizz all mix which contains 50L/m3 of added fertilizer, which I feel could potentially damage the plant further if not flushed, although I have no perspective of how much fertilizer 50L/m3 is.
All I've heard is that it's enough to last around 2-3 weeks so not a shitload like those potting mixes with like '3 months' on it.

One of the two oldest leaves. Not typical nitrogen tip burn - looks much more like a potassium lockout.


One of the two oldest leaves


What appears to be a more typical nitrogen tip burn on some younger leaves


Top view of the plant. From here looks strong and healthy and has grown significantly in the past 24 hours. Problems not easily spotted until further inspection although you can already see some of the leaves are quite dark.


Side view of the plant. As you can see it has a very stocky appearance and looks very much like an indica dominant strain.
 
C

cookie master

Well-Known Member
its certainly overferted, Id give it a flush and then start leaving it alone. You are gonna kill it if you take too much care of it.
 
Fudgepackers

Fudgepackers

New Member
cookie master said:
its certainly overferted, Id give it a flush and then start leaving it alone. You are gonna kill it if you take too much care of it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying so quick man. Much appreciated.

Do you think this will do? What should I do now? Just a matter of waiting?
Should I cease photosynthesis until the soil has been allowed some time to dry?
 
Last edited:
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Fudgepackers said:
**TL;DR--PICS BELOW**

Hi guys. It's been just over 2 weeks so far into my first grow and I'm growing cheese. Super dense with fat leaves and growing fast but I am noticing some tip burn and what I believe to be a potassium lockout due to excess nitrogen (please correct me if I am wrong).

I made the mistake of using miracle gro 'pour and feed ready to use plant food' on my seedling while it was in the seed plug.
Luckily it didn't do much at the time since MG pour&feed is already a pre diluted mix which I diluted much further. However, as the plant started growing more I also mistook the new leaves which looked slightly pale for nitrogen deficiency and added more of the MG crap.
I already knew it was bad stuff as soon as I got it and regret using it. Got some fox farm grow ordered to use much later if I can fix the nutrient overload and wait until the plant is actually hungry this time.
Learned from my mistakes.

ACTUAL QUESTION IS HERE:
At this point, is it safe to flush the plant or will that damage it further? I do not want to run into the problem of overwatering and drowning the plant as it is still young.
If I am to flush, what is the safest method or will it be just fine and recover after some time without any extra watering?
Thanks.


As you will see in the pics, the oldest leaves at the very bottom look pretty rough and are showing signs of a potassium deficiency but are also dark in color which suggests that it is getting too much nitrogen and is unable to get enough potassium because of this. Also there are like 2 leaves higher up that are showing tip burn.
Apart from this, the plant is continuing to grow quickly and is sprouting lots of new leaves.

I am using biobizz all mix which contains 50L/m3 of added fertilizer, which I feel could potentially damage the plant further if not flushed, although I have no perspective of how much fertilizer 50L/m3 is.
All I've heard is that it's enough to last around 2-3 weeks so not a shitload like those potting mixes with like '3 months' on it.

One of the two oldest leaves. Not typical nitrogen tip burn - looks much more like a potassium lockout.


One of the two oldest leaves


What appears to be a more typical nitrogen tip burn on some younger leaves


Top view of the plant. From here looks strong and healthy and has grown significantly in the past 24 hours. Problems not easily spotted until further inspection although you can already see some of the leaves are quite dark.


Side view of the plant. As you can see it has a very stocky appearance and looks very much like an indica dominant strain.
Click to expand...
When you flush you're only interrupting the water/dry cycle once which shouldn't cause any problems at all. It's when people keep watering over a period of time without letting the soil dry out properly that it's an issue.

I'd definitely say that this is a toxicity and that you should flush the hellol out of it. You're not going to be able to flush out the nutrients already present in the soil but that's not the problem. The miracle gro is. If you're confident that it's an N toxicity you can also leach nitrogen directly out of the plant by giving the plant a heavy misting of plain water.
 
Fudgepackers

Fudgepackers

New Member
SchmoeJoe said:
When you flush you're only interrupting the water/dry cycle once wish document cause any problems at all. It's when people keep watering over a period of time without letting the soil dry out properly that it's an issue.

I'd definitely say that this is a toxicity and that you should flush the hellol out of it. You're not going to be able to flush out the nutrients already present in the soil but that's not the problem. The miracle gro is. If you're confident that it's an N toxicity you can also leach nitrogen directly out of the plant by giving the plant a heavy misting of plain water.
Click to expand...
Thanks man. Very helpful! I agree that watering too much over a long period of time would damage it and it makes sense. I am currently in the process of passing as much water through it as I can.
Never using miracle gro again lol
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Someone put something in a way this morning that connected.
They said that during curing, the sugars which are harsh and make your ash dark is fermented into alcohols.
Now in the plant there is lots of sugars build up in the leaves and it gets rid of the majority of it into the substrate via the root system to prevent its leaves becoming an attractive target for insects.
In small pots or unflushed mediums, there may be lots of built-up nutrients towards the end of a season. This would make it harder for the plant to exudate the sugars in to the medium. So when we harvest we could start off with very high amounts of sugars (a brix test before harvest may be interesting to see how this correlates).

When we flush, even if it is with normal strength nutes to remove the buildup, we allow the sugars a way out of the plant.

What do you guys think? With long-running strains, it is easy to work something into the routine. But, with 7 and 8-week plants we need to keep feeding up to the last or you get hit in the wallet.
 
C

cookie master

Well-Known Member
id leave it at that. no more ferts. no water for a long time. I know some people think thats crazy but you have a baby so wait until the soil is dry. You are growing roots right now, not leaves.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
cookie master said:
id leave it at that. no more ferts. no water for up to 20 days. I know some people think thats crazy but you have a baby so wait until the soil is dry. You are growing roots right now, not leaves.
Click to expand...
I wouldnt ever try to tell someone a specific amount of time to wait to water. Describe how to tell when it's time to water and why it's important. That's it.

With young plants, especially seedlings, it can easily be 2-4 weeks before you start with fully watering the pot but that will depend on the size of the pot, rh,temp,medium,etc. That's why it's best to just talk about how to tell when it's time.
 
Fudgepackers

Fudgepackers

New Member
Been flushing it for a while now and water is coming out the drainage much cleaner than before. Trying to go for 3x the pot capacity (2L so 6L total) before I finish.
After I'm done, should I allow the plant to photosynthesize or keep it away from light for a bit until the soil isn't soaking wet?
 
C

cookie master

Well-Known Member
put it near a fan and under the light. the plant is too small to drink much yet so have airflow and this plant is ready for strong light like being on the side of a 400 watt for a day or 4 before going right under.
 
C

cookie master

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
I wouldnt ever try to tell someone a specific amount of time to wait to water. Describe how to tell when it's time to water and why it's important. That's it.

With young plants, especially seedlings, it can easily be 2-4 weeks before you start with fully watering the pot but that will depend on the size of the pot, rh,temp,medium,etc. That's why it's best to just talk about how to tell when it's time.
Click to expand...
I edited it before your post, I had said up to 20 days, but alot of people disagree with that so I said when dry.
 
C

cookie master

Well-Known Member
the little spots you are worrying about are nothing, so stop trying to correct it for now.I would pinch the top or tie it down to promote side shoots. And about now is when you can start looking for preflowers at the nodes.
 
Fudgepackers

Fudgepackers

New Member
Thanks for all the replies peeps, you may have just saved my plant.
Flushed the soil with 3x the pot's volume in water, and the water coming out the drainage was much cleaner towards the end.
Drainage seems very good and the plant is now back under the light albeit a few inches further from it to reduce the number of lux it is exposed to so that it is not working too hard during recovery. I also have my fan on full blast (usually isnt) and the pot raised to help drain and dry the soil quickly.

When the soil dries (not completely) I will slowly return to watering it as normal with miracle gro out of the picture. I will wait for the plant to tell me when it's hungry (paler bottom leaves but not yellow) and then slowly start feeding it with fox farm grow liquid with only very small amounts to begin with.
Thanks again guys.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
cookie master said:
the little spots you are worrying about are nothing, so stop trying to correct it for now.I would pinch the top or tie it down to promote side shoots. And about now is when you can start looking for preflowers at the nodes.
Click to expand...
Those little spots aren't nothing. They're an obvious sign of a problem that is only likely to get worse if it isn't dealt with. Also, judging by the size of the plant, it easily has at another two weeks before it's anywhere near developing preflowers.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Fudgepackers said:
Thanks for all the replies peeps, you may have just saved my plant.
Flushed the soil with 3x the pot's volume in water, and the water coming out the drainage was much cleaner towards the end.
Drainage seems very good and the plant is now back under the light albeit a few inches further from it to reduce the number of lux it is exposed to so that it is not working too hard during recovery. I also have my fan on full blast (usually isnt) and the pot raised to help drain and dry the soil quickly.

When the soil dries (not completely) I will slowly return to watering it as normal with miracle gro out of the picture. I will wait for the plant to tell me when it's hungry (paler bottom leaves but not yellow) and then slowly start feeding it with fox farm grow liquid with only very small amounts to begin with.
Thanks again guys.
Click to expand...
Make sure that there isn't strong direct airflow on it and everything else sounds good.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
ANC said:
The real mastery is getting all your pots to dry up at the same time.
Click to expand...
Consistency is key. It's pretty much impossible without using clones. Even then it's important to take enough cuttings that you can afford to ditch the weaker ones.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
I like dipping my whole pots in a beaker slightly larger than the pot filled with fertilizer.
I know I have the timing right when the bag sinks gently but isn't floaty. If it wants to sink fast it is still waterlogged, I only dip the bottom third or so of those pots (I use perforated bags actually). This washes out excess/leftover salts preventing nutrient imbalances from happening. Plants uptake what the need and the rest stay behind. These leftovers may not be in the ratios they were given to the plant. Every time we add new food to the plant (in coco) without flushing out the old the plant will eat some of it and leave the rest to accumulate. Eventually, one or several elements may be found at ratios that prevent the uptake of others. When you dip and rinse your pot and place your plants on a drying rack for a few minutes, they get a nice reset.

Take care of taking ppm levels after each dip. this will tell you when you need to start feeding more as the ppm will be less and less elevated the more the plants used since the last feeding.
I currently feed 30 young clones with this method. It uses 15 liters of solution, of which I have 10 left in the drainage container and 5liters in the plants after each watering. They are light 48 hours after.
 
MrGhettoGrower

MrGhettoGrower

Well-Known Member
It's not over nuted it's the wrong nutes MG? I don't use nothing mg or with nutes in it already I used to swear by ffof but not even that no more because you have to deal with it being inconsistence or flat out bad mix or bag so if you just get something with no nutes in it less chance of getting a bad bag so I'll use sunshine mix 4 with my favorite nutes mixed to the exact ppms as need....
 
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