same sex marriage hearing

watching it live. they are getting shot down from the get go. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/05/BALP169S4U.DTL

Its unbelievably retarded that this is even an issue.

it's more about the law at this point.

it was voted as a YES 2 years ago.

it was voted as a NO this past year.

they are trying to say it's "constitutional" to vote it YES but "unconstitutional" to vote it NO.

that doesn't make sense.

is it something that can be voted on or not? that is the issue.

fdd2blk said:

it's more about the law at this point.

it was voted as a YES 2 years ago.

it was voted as a NO this past year.

they are trying to say it's "constitutional" to vote it YES but "unconstitutional" to vote it NO.

that doesn't make sense.

is it something that can be voted on or not? that is the issue.

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Why doesn't it make sense? Restriction of rights is unconstitutional, hence any vote that re-asserts or continues an unconstitutional restriction is therefore also unconstitutional. The opposite, any "Yes" vote to lift a restriction on personal liberties would have a hard time being claimed unconstitutional. In math, they call this asymmetry and is extremely important when writing logic formulas since it they are non-transitive.

mindphuk said:

Why doesn't it make sense? Restriction of rights is unconstitutional, hence any vote that re-asserts or continues an unconstitutional restriction is therefore also unconstitutional. The opposite, any "Yes" vote to lift a restriction on personal liberties would have a hard time being claimed unconstitutional. In math, they call this asymmetry and is extremely important when writing logic formulas since it they are non-transitive.

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It doesn't restrict rights, the Gays and Lesbians still have the same rights as any one else to marry a human being of the opposite gender.

TheBrutalTruth said:

It doesn't restrict rights, the Gays and Lesbians still have the same rights as any one else to marry a human being of the opposite gender.

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Really? So they have the same rights under the law as man-woman marriages? Things like right to make medical decisions for a spouse, inheritance laws, tax treatment etc. You are claiming those rights are already afforded to committed gay couples?

Tell me, were inter-racial couples' rights restricted prior to 1967 Loving v. Virginia?

From the drug czar thread:

TheBrutalTruth said:

I think that the paradigm should be shifted so the government buts out of everyone's business, and just decriminalizes all drugs.

It shouldn't be up to the government what people put in their bodies.

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Pretty libertarian views for someone that wants to legally treat same sex marriage different than traditional marriages.

Don't let your religious views or distaste for gays (or whatever your reason is) cloud your reasoning on this issue.

Gay people should be allowed to marry and have the same rights.

They should all be allowed to adopt children too. There are so many kids out there longing for someone to pay attention to them.

It seems that in America some people are more equal than others, doesn't seem fair.

mindphuk said:

Really? So they have the same rights under the law as man-woman marriages? Things like right to make medical decisions for a spouse, inheritance laws, tax treatment etc. You are claiming those rights are already afforded to committed gay couples?

Tell me, were inter-racial couples' rights restricted prior to 1967 Loving v. Virginia?

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I never said they had the same rights as a man-woman marriage, you need to learn how to comprehend better.

I said they still have the ability to marry a person of the opposite sex, thus they are granted the same rights as any one else.

It's just as illegal for a straight female to marry another straight female, as it is for a homosexual female to marry another homosexual female. There is no difference in how either one are treated.

As far as your comment regarding interracial couples. What does that have to do with this?

What is the big deal TBT? If 2 gay people get married does it change your life? It doesn't change mine, but it will change theirs.

What about people who have been together for 20 years and then one is dying and their partner can't get time off from work to care for them because they're not a "family" member?

I don't even want to hear the "marriage is sacred" argument either. With the divorce rate the way it is, marriage is anything but sacred anymore.

TheBrutalTruth said:

I never said they had the same rights as a man-woman marriage, you need to learn how to comprehend better.

I said they still have the ability to marry a person of the opposite sex, thus they are granted the same rights as any one else.

It's just as illegal for a straight female to marry another straight female, as it is for a homosexual female to marry another homosexual female. There is no difference in how either one are treated.

As far as your comment regarding interracial couples. What does that have to do with this?

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Now I see what you were attempting to say. Interesting argument on its face but lacking substance.

This is a matter of civil rights which is why I brought up interracial marriages. Your argument is just as invalid, "Blacks and whites already have the equal rights. They can all get married, as long as it's to someone of their own race."

The issue is the ability to marry the person you choose. Are you really that blind to the issue or were you merely trolling (or maybe just really stoned).

misshestermoffitt said:

What is the big deal TBT? If 2 gay people get married does it change your life? It doesn't change mine, but it will change theirs.

What about people who have been together for 20 years and then one is dying and their partner can't get time off from work to care for them because they're not a "family" member?

I don't even want to hear the "marriage is sacred" argument either. With the divorce rate the way it is, marriage is anything but sacred anymore.

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How will it change theirs?

Are they suddenly going to love each other more if they get married?


Though, no, it wont change mine, mostly because I don't watch TV, and thus wont have to listen to the media going on and on about it like it was the Holocaust all over again.

If interracial marriage is legal, then same sex marriage should not be any different. People need to learn that the only thing in life they can control is themselves, and stop trying to press ignorance into our world... Who gets off where trying to decide the fate of another person?

Whats next? Separate water fountains for gays and lesbians? Straight only restrooms? Only straight people can get bank loans? Only straight people can use public transportation? Only straight people can use the quick-checkout at the market?

Segregation is segregation whether it be race, religion, nationality, or sexuality.

Plain and simple: Every AMERICAN should have the same rights as every other American.

They would have the same rights as married couples. They would be able to put each other on their medical and other insurance policies. They would be able to file taxes jointly instead of each filing single. They deserve the same tax breaks as other married couples.

They'll have more rights if they partner becomes deceased, right now as it stands gays only have "roommate" rights, what about common property? We're talking about people who are building a life together.

If they're "married" that puts one less hitch in adoption plans, gays aren't know to be breeders and there are plenty of kids that need loving homes.

Since you admit it won't change your life, then why do you care at all?

TheBrutalTruth said:

How will it change theirs?

Are they suddenly going to love each other more if they get married?


Though, no, it wont change mine, mostly because I don't watch TV, and thus wont have to listen to the media going on and on about it like it was the Holocaust all over again.

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Ignorance is bliss misshester... Give up on those who thrive on ignorance, nobody can make it less blissful for them.

I had neighbors that were 2 gay guys, and I tell you what, they were good neighbors. Friendly guys, nice neat yard. One of them died suddenly and he owned their place so his family sold it right out from under his partner. I felt so bad for the guy, first he loses a partner that he'd been with for at least 15 years and then loses his home too.

It was a shame, the family of the guy that died just couldn't come to terms with him being gay, even though he was in his 40's. They just shut his partner out. How can people be so cold and cruel? I didn't really get a chance to express my sorrow to him, they ran him out so fast.

misshestermoffitt said:

I had neighbors that were 2 gay guys, and I tell you what, they were good neighbors. Friendly guys, nice neat yard. One of them died suddenly and he owned their place so his family sold it right out from under his partner. I felt so bad for the guy, first he loses a partner that he'd been with for at least 15 years and then loses his home too.

It was a shame, the family of the guy that died just couldn't come to terms with him being gay, even though he was in his 40's. They just shut his partner out. How can people be so cold and cruel? I didn't really get a chance to express my sorrow to him, they ran him out so fast.

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I bet your new neighbors are just as delightful I bet $0.00

They were ok, I don't live there anymore, the new neighbors had kids the same age as mine, so my kids were happy. The gay guys were only fun when the kids got to see their pet bird. They much preferred others to ride bikes with.

misshestermoffitt said:

They would have the same rights as married couples. They would be able to put each other on their medical and other insurance policies. They would be able to file taxes jointly instead of each filing single. They deserve the same tax breaks as other married couples.

They'll have more rights if they partner becomes deceased, right now as it stands gays only have "roommate" rights, what about common property? We're talking about people who are building a life together.

If they're "married" that puts one less hitch in adoption plans, gays aren't know to be breeders and there are plenty of kids that need loving homes.

Since you admit it won't change your life, then why do you care at all?

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Because it's more interference by the government, or rather in this case by the liberals.

The people of California, decided that in the State of California marriage would be between one man, and one woman, and nothing else. Thus, California, as a society, effectively stated that one of the rules governing that society was that marriage was between one man and one woman.

Any one that has a problem with that has the option of exercising their freedom to move by moving out of California.


Besides, there is the fact that marriage was defined by Religion, and not by the State, originally, thus the only entity that should have any ability to change its definition is a religion.

The government shouldn't be evolved in the equation in the first damn place. (And if it wasn't involved in the equation in the first damn place, this wouldn't be an issue, because then there would be no special rights for married couple as opposed to unmarried couples.)