Ro and distilled water no good?

Cannabistattoo

Cannabistattoo

New Member
Read this thread thought it should be passed on! Hope u enjoy give your thoughts thanks!

You'd think common sense would suffice about too pure water.
You are quite correct.
Distilled water is actually a tad worse than R/O.


I did a side by side with cuttings.
The "fresh outta the tap" water side rooted and flourished.
On the others, the distilled water sucked the life out of them and they shriveled and died.




Let me address that second myth.
Chloramines are compounds. they do not "evaporate".
Organic decomposition will degrade Chloramine to Halomethanes that are also harmless at that concentration.




My tap water contains Chloramine.
If it did not, I would add some to control pathogens.
(Keeps fungus and mold out of my DWC)


The tiny amount used, while toxic to fish, is harmless to cannabis, in fact, it's beneficial.
Same goes for Chlorine gas.


Though Chlorine gas does dissipate on standing the wise grower takes advantage of it and used the water straight from the tap.
(After tweaking the PH, of course.)


Ordinarily, I just ignore misguided guidance if it does no harm.
However, telling folks to "let their water sit" for whatever reason, is counter productive.
Here's why.


Roots breathe.
Sitting water loses oxygen and goes stagnant.
Stagnant water drowns plants, allows pathogens to flourish, and rots roots.
You want it sparkly fresh from an aerated faucet.


Been following this advice for years and it has served me very well.
 
Holylander

Holylander

Well-Known Member
I'm a total newb but I agree with you. I think this buying bottled distilled water, or purifying reverse osmosis water, or lugging canisters of AC water etc it's all bs and for vanity's sake. Part of the hydro culture's sell mentality to get people to buy more and more stuff. Nobody does this for other garden plants, a gardener would laugh at you if you told him you buy water or purify it for your plant and these people grow human head sized fruits in their yards! It's comical. Go to a farm and ask them if they reverse osmosis their hundreds of gallons of water, some of it often grey water. Outdoor growers tend to draw right from a creek bed or mountain side for huge industrial size grows with plants that grow to giant sizes.

But if it makes someone feel good or gives them the impression they are growing organics or 'pure weed' by all means they should enjoy. Of course some people have really really bad water so in those extremes might be different, but the notion that tap water which is perfectly suitable for humans cannot be used to water a plant is a real stretch. I'm also inclined to believe that the notion one needs to flush out, or buy 3 bottles of 'cleaning formula' for the plants before harvest is also a heaping pile of cow dung.
 
I

ilikecheetoes

Well-Known Member
i use RO water so I know whats in my neut soup. It starts at 6ppm every time. I know my neut concentrations without having to mentally adjust for changing PPM levels in tap water. I also know exactly the ratios of each. I have a ton of cal/mag hardness in my water and it throws off all the ratios. its easier with RO.
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
I tell people all the time that distilled is no good for growing. R/o is fine as long as you put the cal/mag back.
not 100% positive on the reason, But I'm pretty sure it has to do with ions. we use chelators or organics to break salts down to ions for the roots to uptake. Distilled has NO ions. so It would dilute any chelators.{my theory} also think it has something to do with negatively charging any positive ions.
 
its a hobby honey !

its a hobby honey !

Member
i like,s the coco,s LOL so its nice to have the means start at low ppm.
i always cal mag everything. I flush with water from the filter setup as well . i will use the R/O set up for last weeks of flowering to FLUSH .
And i also am a newb but think it a bit of a reach comparing large farmers watering habits with someone who is growing weed in a tent in his spare room .



my water comes out of the tap 7.5 ph and 140ppm tastes like tap water (ugg) Now later the res is out my ph keeps moving .
If i aim for a clean environment i have a better chance of keeping the res at the same ph stable res means stable plants .
I cant talk about outside plants but my limited time with, and the Loooongggg time running from the tap , constant battle with ph .
Now its a breeze plus i drink a butt load of it my self (filtered that is ) .
I spend a long time trying to keep everything clean .
P8200792.JPGHere is my setup .i would have the same thing even if i didnt grow as it save me bank on drinking water .
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
City/Suburban tap water often contains high levels of sodium, calcium, alkaline salts, sulfur and chlorine. Also is usually high Ph! (around 7.0) Most of these are added by the municipality to keep it safe to drink (kill molds, bacteria and fungus). While some are helpful, some are not, especially if you grow organic! If worried about oxy content of the water put a pump with and air stone on the end of the line in it and run that as you dissipate the chlorine. Tap or well water that PPM's over 160 should not be used by choice and over 200 never!

Distilled water works! You MUST add a calmag to make it work right! I don't use distilled because I don't like the Ionic changes to it!!!!

Reverse Osmosis (RO) water works! You MUST add a calmag to make it work right! RO water will Ph out around 6.0 and that's perfect for hydro! Mine PPM's to 2, that's right 2ppm.

I use adjusted RO for soil when I run synthetics and in all my DWC synthetic grows. (I mainly run organic soil and DWC, but run synthetics and synth/org to achieve specific goals AND NEVER use RO or distilled for making my Organic Teas).

I live rural so my water is well water that does not contain elevated iron content (lucky). It PPM's out to about 142-152 depending on the season.

I have done side by side testing with my well water and adjusted RO water in my synthetic DWC and soil grows using clones from the same mother and of the same health/size and here's what I have found;

The adjusted RO water will out preform the well water in yields by as much as 40% (depends on breeds used)!!!!!

I can get all tech here but to put it simply. The calmag in water (including everything else in it) acts as a "buffer" to anything you add. Thus it can "limit" or "enhance" the nutrients used. The results can be not enuff or to much of something and you should know what that means!

An RO or distilled water is to "soft" (no calmag) so you add a calmag at a rate of AROUND 5ml per gallon. Now your water has only the needed calmag and not the other things "buffering" the needed nutrients from the plant. Thus the plant will be better able to "use" the now MORE available nutrients!!!! See where this goes?

Now then, as for the"I did a side by side cuttings" thing...Would have worked if you did it right!
I have for YEARS used adjusted RO water with cutting/seedling nutes and enjoy 100% success with cuttings and about 97% with "hatched" seeds (week seeds more then likely the cause there)....

My RO feeds a 55 gallon drum with a lrg airdisk style air stone, running from a dbl line air pump using bolth into 1.

I hope you all learned something here and strongly suggest that reading up on growing will go along way to dispel some myths, rumors and BS...
I suggest these.
Mel Franks Insider's Grower's guide
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Mel Franks Insiders Growers guide&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20
Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Grower's Handbook
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Grower's Handbook&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20
Jorges Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor Medical Grower's Bible
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Jorges Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor Medical Grower's Bible&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20

If you intend to grow Organic, this is a MUST read
Teaming with Microbes The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Teaming with Microbes The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web.&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20

Common sense?
Knowledge is what will get you there.
Keep notes on everything you do and refer to them often...


GROW ON
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
City/Suburban tap water often contains high levels of sodium, calcium, alkaline salts, sulfur and chlorine. Also is usually high Ph! (around 7.0) Most of these are added by the municipality to keep it safe to drink (kill molds, bacteria and fungus). While some are helpful, some are not, especially if you grow organic! If worried about oxy content of the water put a pump with and air stone on the end of the line in it and run that as you dissipate the chlorine. Tap or well water that PPM's over 160 should not be used by choice and over 200 never!

Distilled water works! You MUST add a calmag to make it work right! I don't use distilled because I don't like the Ionic changes to it!!!!

Reverse Osmosis (RO) water works! You MUST add a calmag to make it work right! RO water will Ph out around 6.0 and that's perfect for hydro! Mine PPM's to 2, that's right 2ppm.

I use adjusted RO for soil when I run synthetics and in all my DWC synthetic grows. (I mainly run organic soil and DWC, but run synthetics and synth/org to achieve specific goals AND NEVER use RO or distilled for making my Organic Teas).

I live rural so my water is well water that does not contain elevated iron content (lucky). It PPM's out to about 142-152 depending on the season.

I have done side by side testing with my well water and adjusted RO water in my synthetic DWC and soil grows using clones from the same mother and of the same health/size and here's what I have found;

The adjusted RO water will out preform the well water in yields by as much as 40% (depends on breeds used)!!!!!

I can get all tech here but to put it simply. The calmag in water (including everything else in it) acts as a "buffer" to anything you add. Thus it can "limit" or "enhance" the nutrients used. The results can be not enuff or to much of something and you should know what that means!

An RO or distilled water is to "soft" (no calmag) so you add a calmag at a rate of AROUND 5ml per gallon. Now your water has only the needed calmag and not the other things "buffering" the needed nutrients from the plant. Thus the plant will be better able to "use" the now MORE available nutrients!!!! See where this goes?

Now then, as for the"I did a side by side cuttings" thing...Would have worked if you did it right!
I have for YEARS used adjusted RO water with cutting/seedling nutes and enjoy 100% success with cuttings and about 97% with "hatched" seeds (week seeds more then likely the cause there)....

My RO feeds a 55 gallon drum with a lrg airdisk style air stone, running from a dbl line air pump using bolth into 1.

I hope you all learned something here and strongly suggest that reading up on growing will go along way to dispel some myths, rumors and BS...
I suggest these.
Mel Franks Insider's Grower's guide
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Mel Franks Insiders Growers guide&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20
Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Grower's Handbook
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Grower's Handbook&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20
Jorges Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor Medical Grower's Bible
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Jorges Cervantes Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor Medical Grower's Bible&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20

If you intend to grow Organic, this is a MUST read
Teaming with Microbes The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&field-keywords=Teaming with Microbes The Organic Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web.&index=blended&link_code=qs&sourceid=Mozilla-search&tag=mozilla-20

Common sense?
Knowledge is what will get you there.
Keep notes on everything you do and refer to them often...


GROW ON
Click to expand...
Great post, except for 1 thing, there are no buffers in r/o or distilled water, so getting an accurate ph reading can't be done until you add some sort of buffer.
 
billy4479

billy4479

Moderator
A severe nutritional deficiency dis- ease occurred in tomato plants growing in experimental cultures after chlorine was removed from the nutrient solutions. Although the major portion of subse- quent investigations with chlorine was with tomato, other species-particularly lettuce and cabbage-also have shown acute nutritional disturbances within a few weeks after transplanting seedlings to culture solutions lacking chlorine. Therefore, the studies of chlorine nutri- tion as revealed by the tomato plant are believed to have general implications for plant nutrition. The nutritional disease in its severe state resulted in the yellowing of the leaves-chlorosis-and finally death- necrosis-of leaf tissue itself. Growth was exceedingly restricted and plants would not set fruit. Additions of chlo- rine as chloride to the culture solutions prevented the disease, and severely chlo- rine-deficient plants resumed growth after chlorine was supplied. This is from 1956 from the university of California .. I was trying to find the study I read about during my green house management courses . but with no avail I decided to post from this study because it was easy to find either way I very untalked about subject is that chlorine is a necessary mineral for normal plant growth and development .
 
T

TreeOfLiberty

Well-Known Member
I'm hooked to a water well. Water out of the tap runs around 180 PPM. I also have an RO/DI system to make 0 PPM water, but I never use it for my bubble cloner, I use the well water in my bubble cloner and average 9-10 days with roots showing with close to a 100% success rate. Well water out of the tap is around 8.3 PH, I use vinegar to bring it down to 6.5 PH. I pour out the bubble cloner water and add fresh PH'ed well water with a few drops of Hydrogen Peroxide every 48 hours to prevent algae slime build-up. I've used this method for over a year now and it works for me. Just well water , distilled vinegar for lowering PH, and Hydrogen Peroxide , and doing a water change every 48 hours. It works like a clock. I do use 2 stones and 2 pumps. If one pump fails, I have the other as back up, but also 2 pumps and 2 stones working at the same time puts more Dissolved Oxygen into the water and I keep my stems about a 1/2" into the water. I use a sterilized razor blade to scrape the lower 1/2" to expose more of the cambium layer to speed up root formation. That's pretty much it. I use a heating mat underneath my bubble cloner in every season except summer.

I've never used treated city water or RO'ed water for cloning. A bubble cloner for example would cause the chlorine to evaporate within 24 hours anyway from the constant Dissolved Oxygen being pushed into it. I don't see how city water would be a bad thing for cloning unless it had a super high PPM level and the PH was high.
 
Sir.Ganga

Sir.Ganga

New Member
chuck estevez said:
I tell people all the time that distilled is no good for growing. R/o is fine as long as you put the cal/mag back.
not 100% positive on the reason, But I'm pretty sure it has to do with ions. we use chelators or organics to break salts down to ions for the roots to uptake. Distilled has NO ions. so It would dilute any chelators.{my theory} also think it has something to do with negatively charging any positive ions.
Click to expand...
Ever notice that distilled never really quenches your thirst? I think its the same principal with the girls?...Nice theory though. Standard tap water for me has proven to be the best.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
ToL well water is not in a confined container. The water literally migrates. Toxic runoff from hundreds of miles away can infiltrate a clean hole

I have been using RO water for years as a base for cloning, or growing. For clones/seedlings I add a pinch of sea salt for the minerals. I ALWAYS use a bubbler. I have NEVER added chlorine. 95++% success

Here's a couple seedling shots taken 8/18. 4/7 plants are already developing 3rd leaf set

Baby Roots.jpgBaby Tops.jpg
 
T

TreeOfLiberty

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
ToL well water is not in a confined container. The water literally migrates. Toxic runoff from hundreds of miles away can infiltrate a clean hole

I have been using RO water for years as a base for cloning, or growing. For clones/seedlings I add a pinch of sea salt for the minerals. I ALWAYS use a bubbler. I have NEVER added chlorine. 95++% success

Here's a couple seedling shots taken 8/18. 4/7 plants are already developing 3rd leaf set



View attachment 2785807View attachment 2785808
Click to expand...

When the well water is inside my bubble cloner, it's in a confined container ! :mrgreen:

I couldn't resist that pun. lol

I know what you mean. That's a possibility. It's worked good for me thus far. When I start having problems, I'll use my 6 stage RO/DI unit to make 0 PPM. Cloning isn't too complicated of a process and there many methods that can be successful. I think a lot of it comes down to preference. I'm happy getting all the clones I need ready for transplant into soil cups by the 9th to 10th day. Some people prefer RO , some don't. Some like to use fogging cloners and claim transplant ready roots by the 6th day. If it works for you and you're happy with it, that's all that really matters.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
billy4479 said:
A severe nutritional deficiency dis- ease occurred in tomato plants growing in experimental cultures after chlorine was removed from the nutrient solutions. Although the major portion of subse- quent investigations with chlorine was with tomato, other species-particularly lettuce and cabbage-also have shown acute nutritional disturbances within a few weeks after transplanting seedlings to culture solutions lacking chlorine. Therefore, the studies of chlorine nutri- tion as revealed by the tomato plant are believed to have general implications for plant nutrition. The nutritional disease in its severe state resulted in the yellowing of the leaves-chlorosis-and finally death- necrosis-of leaf tissue itself. Growth was exceedingly restricted and plants would not set fruit. Additions of chlo- rine as chloride to the culture solutions prevented the disease, and severely chlo- rine-deficient plants resumed growth after chlorine was supplied. This is from 1956 from the university of California .. I was trying to find the study I read about during my green house management courses . but with no avail I decided to post from this study because it was easy to find either way I very untalked about subject is that chlorine is a necessary mineral for normal plant growth and development .
Click to expand...
Ahhh, someone taking the proper college class's! Yes that's very true......But when you add your nutrients. You are adding a "chlorine" back in the form of a chloride! Problem solved.

Also to all,,,I never said tap water DIDN'T work...
 
CaliJoe

CaliJoe

Member
I use RO/DI water. My tap water also contains no chloramines, just chlorine. Simply letting my tap water sit WITH AN AIRSTONE over night removes the chlorine while keeping ORP levels good, not that I would ever use tap water for anything, not even drinking. My cities water report reads like a toxic soup list and most levels exceed gov't guidelines. TDS out of my tap is 700-800 on a good day, 1200 on a 'bad day' when they dump in drums of chlorine and it smells like a swimming pool when you turn on the tap. I make my own RO for drinking and use RO/DI for fish and plants. My city just passed a MASSIVE water rate hike this month that they claim will be used to 'fix' the current water system which has been deficient for over 20 years. I can put a coffee filter under my tap and pull out small pieces of metals due to the pipes being so old and worn out in the city.

I agree that using straight RO/DI is bad for cuttings. I always add a little nutes for them even if they aren't rooted for the exact reasons stated (sucking the life out of the plants), but I always like to start with a clean slate so I know exactly what is going into the water.

Like most things in life, 1 answer isn't right for everyone.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
chuck estevez said:
Great post, except for 1 thing, there are no buffers in r/o or distilled water, so getting an accurate ph reading can't be done until you add some sort of buffer.
Click to expand...
Not so true.....try it with test strips and see if you get the same readings. Now do it with a QUALITY meter ( Most consumer available pH meters have been specially developed as an affordable, effective tool for hobby or small scale growers and for the most part while they work fine for that . . They are NOT lab quality equipment. My job affords me the luxury of "high end" lab grade equipment).

Now for some tech. Here is the how and why of RO "changing" Ph.
This question is answered when you understand the equilibrium relationship between CO[SUB]2[/SUB], HCO[SUB]3[/SUB], and CO[SUB]3[/SUB]. In a closed system, the relative amount of each dune compound varies with pH. At lower pH levels, CO[SUB]2[/SUB] is the predominant species. HCO[SUB]3[/SUB] is the predominant species at mid pH levels, and CO[SUB]3[/SUB] is present at higher pH levels.
Since RO membranes will reject dissolved ions but not dissolved gases, the RO permeate and RO feed will contain roughly the same amount of CO[SUB]2[/SUB]. The HCO[SUB]3[/SUB] and CO[SUB]3[/SUB], however, are often reduced by 1-2 orders of magnitude. This upsets the CO[SUB]2[/SUB], HCO[SUB]3[/SUB], CO[SUB]3[/SUB] equilibrium that was established in the feed. In a series of equilibrium reactions, CO[SUB]2[/SUB] will combine with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O driving reactions similar to that shown below, until a new equilibrium Is established.

CO[SUB]2[/SUB] + H[SUB]2[/SUB]O --> HCO[SUB]3[/SUB] + H[SUP]+[/SUP]​
To summarize:
The new equilibrium will always result in a lowering of permeate pH if there is CO2 gas present in the feed water.

The pH drop is usually largest for waters with high amounts of alkalinity or HCO3.

When there is very little CO2, HCO3, or CO3, there is a very small pH drop observed in the permeate.
Therefore it is not true that reverse osmosis filters will always reduce the pH level of water to a noticeable amount. The pH difference after the RO depends on the composition of your input water source; depending on whether you have large amounts of gases such as CO2 in your local water supply.
 
Youngtree777

Youngtree777

Member
oooof LOL the opposites of opinions clash! I'm using RO with KLR rooting hormone from Dyna Gro and a 60ppm solution of Dyna Gro grow... I did really good first round but this one all of em seem to be going super slow or dying... I'm interested in trying Tap but the only thing is mine reads in the high 400's which seems to much to me whatcha think??
 
green_machine_two9er

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
Youngtree777 said:
oooof LOL the opposites of opinions clash! I'm using RO with KLR rooting hormone from Dyna Gro and a 60ppm solution of Dyna Gro grow... I did really good first round but this one all of em seem to be going super slow or dying... I'm interested in trying Tap but the only thing is mine reads in the high 400's which seems to much to me whatcha think??
Click to expand...
why not use half ro and half tap? i have been doing this for my clones and watering for some time now. only use all RO when making teas. if you want to ro make sure you add sufficient cal mg and thats usually all they will need until past 3-4 weeks from clone.
 
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